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That's not organic

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Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
i'll just leave these here

Review
The rhizosphere microbiome and plant health

Roeland L. Berendsen1, , Corné M.J. Pieterse1, 2, Peter A.H.M. Bakker1

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http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tplants.2012.04.001
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The diversity of microbes associated with plant roots is enormous, in the order of tens of thousands of species. This complex plant-associated microbial community, also referred to as the second genome of the plant, is crucial for plant health. Recent advances in plant–microbe interactions research revealed that plants are able to shape their rhizosphere microbiome, as evidenced by the fact that different plant species host specific microbial communities when grown on the same soil. In this review, we discuss evidence that upon pathogen or insect attack, plants are able to recruit protective microorganisms, and enhance microbial activity to suppress pathogens in the rhizosphere. A comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms that govern selection and activity of microbial communities by plant roots will provide new opportunities to increase crop production.

Current Opinion in Biotechnology

Volume 27, June 2014, Pages 30–37

Energy biotechnology • Environmental biotechnology
Cover image
Metabolic potential of endophytic bacteria

Günter Brader, Stéphane Compant, Birgit Mitter, Friederike Trognitz, Angela Sessitsch

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http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.copbio.2013.09.012
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Open Access funded by Austrian Science Fund (FWF)
Under a Creative Commons license

Open Access
Highlights



Endophytes are a source of a plethora of biologically active substances.


Endophyte-associated metabolites may be needed for the interaction with the plant.


Some metabolites are produced jointly by plant and endophytes.


Endophytes may stimulate or alter metabolite production by the plant.


Metabolite functions include signalling and communication, nutrient acquisition and defense.

The bacterial endophytic microbiome promotes plant growth and health and beneficial effects are in many cases mediated and characterized by metabolic interactions. Recent advances have been made in regard to metabolite production by plant microsymbionts showing that they may produce a range of different types of metabolites. These substances play a role in defense and competition, but may also be needed for specific interaction and communication with the plant host. Furthermore, few examples of bilateral metabolite production are known and endophytes may modulate plant metabolite synthesis as well. We have just started to understand such metabolic interactions between plants and endophytes, however, further research is needed to more efficiently make use of beneficial plant-microbe interactions and to reduce pathogen infestation as well as to reveal novel bioactive substances of commercial interest.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
Remember all those arguments with breeders about phenotype expression

even the microbiome effects selection LOL p = g + e

glad I tackled organics all those years ago so I wouldn't be limited in the future.

functional Soil Microbiome: Belowground Solutions to an Aboveground Problem1[C]


Abstract

There is considerable evidence in the literature that beneficial rhizospheric microbes can alter plant morphology, enhance plant growth, and increase mineral content. Of late, there is a surge to understand the impact of the microbiome on plant health. Recent research shows the utilization of novel sequencing techniques to identify the microbiome in model systems such as Arabidopsis (Arabidopsis thaliana) and maize (Zea mays). However, it is not known how the community of microbes identified may play a role to improve plant health and fitness. There are very few detailed studies with isolated beneficial microbes showing the importance of the functional microbiome in plant fitness and disease protection. Some recent work on the cultivated microbiome in rice (Oryza sativa) shows that a wide diversity of bacterial species is associated with the roots of field-grown rice plants. However, the biological significance and potential effects of the microbiome on the host plants are completely unknown. Work performed with isolated strains showed various genetic pathways that are involved in the recognition of host-specific factors that play roles in beneficial host-microbe interactions. The composition of the microbiome in plants is dynamic and controlled by multiple factors. In the case of the rhizosphere, temperature, pH, and the presence of chemical signals from bacteria, plants, and nematodes all shape the environment and influence which organisms will flourish. This provides a basis for plants and their microbiomes to selectively associate with one another. This Update addresses the importance of the functional microbiome to identify phenotypes that may provide a sustainable and effective strategy to increase crop yield and food security.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
As I said; Who decides what is organic?

This is mostly what is being discussed here so far. Is it OMRI who tells me this is organic? If so, by what authority? How much cash changes hands?

Is it the USDA and some local certifying 'social club' that says a crop is organic? If so are they better friends with Joe or Harry up the road. Who will they be totally strict with? Okay, I'll let it slide this one time.

Or is true organics, natural growing/farming based on sound research combined with conscientious humanity and integrity?

~ Living soil

Exactly! It is pure dogma, just like religion. That said, "responsible fusion growing" is probably the next step--a blend of "this" and "that".

Why...because most of us are interested in providing a living, healthy environment for our plants--but the NOP Committee is more interested in "social engineering".

Example, look at the NOP criteria used to determine if a substance is "organic"--it tells the tale. The number in parenthesis are the number of items/questions--most are "disqualifiers" or provide reasons to "reject" instead to "approve".

Category 1. Adverse impacts on humans or the environment? (13)
Category 2. Is the Substance Essential for Organic Production? (10)
Category 3. Is the substance compatible with organic production practices? (11)
Category 4. Is the commercial supply of an agricultural substance as organic, fragile or potentially unavailable? (9)

How many are about "living soil"? I counted less than half dozen.

And then we have the NOP Committee's report to the Senate in 1990--

Most consumers believe that absolutely no synthetic substances are used in organic production. For the most part, they are correct and this is the basic tenet of this legislation. But there are a few limited exceptions to the no-synthetic rule and the National Lists designed to handle these exceptions. Organic farmers have used some synthetic substances for several good reasons. For example, some organic farmers use certain synthetic analogues to natural substances when those substances are difficult to obtain. Insect pheromones a often-used biological control substance in organic farming, are very difficult to collect in nature and are therefore synthetically produced. The Committee does not specifically disallow the use of pheromones in organic farming simply because they are synthetically produced when pheromones are effective and ecologically benign.

The Committee does not intend to allow the use of many synthetic substances. This legislation has been carefully written to prevent widespread exceptions or “loopholes” in the organic standards which would circumvent the intent of this legislation. The few synthetic substances that are widely recognized as safe and traditionally used in organic production are explicitly cited in the bill as potential items to be included on the National List if the Board and the Secretary approve of their use.


Notice how the word "traditionally" was used in the last sentence--"The few synthetic substances that are widely recognized as safe and traditionally used in organic production are explicitly cited in the bill as potential items to be included..."

That is known as the "grandfather clause" as it locks in "past use of synthetics" and made them "organic"--even though many of those substances might not be approved today.

Pure dogma? Yep.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
living soil is as dogmatic if you refuse to separate the wheat from the chaff between science and politics
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Not trying to be rude MG but it sounds like your attempts at organics would be a similar comparison to dumping some maxibloom in water and then not getting perfect results...

It takes time and dedication that just a compost pile and some amendments cant make function for each individuals needs. Just like dialing a strain, you need to dial your mix just to grow plants well, let alone growing them perfectly.

Organics is a passion, its more than growing weed for money, for some.

Stop by the farm sometime, Ill make you some bacon from a hog fed organic pasture, grain, vegetables and some eggs from the organically fed laying hens...

:tiphat:

I'm in fer the eggs but can't bring myself to eat pigs since recognizing how smart they are. See ya in a few months.
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
living soil is as dogmatic if you refuse to separate the wheat from the chaff between science and politics

Weird; I began trying to write a simple explanation about root exudates over a month ago in response to a post illustrating a gross misunderstanding of their functions. During my review of current research on it, I became cognizant that it is easier to think such a thing, than to carry it out.

I am, however, growing close to completing the prose and will hopefully post it soon.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
Weird; I began trying to write a simple explanation about root exudates over a month ago in response to a post illustrating a gross misunderstanding of their functions. During my review of current research on it, I became cognizant that it is easier to think such a thing, than to carry it out.

I am, however, growing close to completing the prose and will hopefully post it soon.

I think it is also important at this stage of the game (and in light of political influence and agenda) to consider any transition to natural methodology is harm reduction in regards to environment footprint so I hate to leave the impression that a step towards organic production is a failure or that transitional farming doesn't have a place in sustainability

At this point the differences between plants that feed themselves via exudate secretions versus ones that are ion fed are stark enough I have my preference
 

Pwyll

Member
The problem is not organic oneupmanship. The problem is commercial growers, in Colorado at least, routinely deceiving their customers. It is rife folks
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Saw a sign at a courthouse cafeteria years ago that advertised hard boiled eggs as "Boneless Chicken Dinner".

LOL--probably the first "chicken" MRE.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
The problem is not organic oneupmanship. The problem is commercial growers, in Colorado at least, routinely deceiving their customers. It is rife folks


online the oneupmanship is often a variable in shutting down organic discourse

in real life scam boogery is a reality
 

subrob

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Maybe he should have referred to his grow as "hardly non organic"? Would that make people happy?
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
online the oneupmanship is often a variable in shutting down organic discourse

in real life scam boogery is a reality

Or is it intolerance to different points of views--especially when it differs from the one held?

In my lifetime thus far...I have learned more from others (standing on the shoulders of giants)--than by my own trial and error "follies" (aka discovery/experimentation/"what ifs"). Said differently--my "folly" starting point is usually as a result of the giant's work...not from my own original personal discovery/enlightenment.

BTW, for solutions/problem solving--I rely 1000% on my own discovery/enlightenment to digest all information available...especially information that differs with the many "points of view" I have. Understanding opposing and different points of view creates a larger circle of friends.
 

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
> Or is it intolerance to different points of views--especially when it differs from the one held?

You mean like coming to an organic forum and accosting people for their beliefs that are different than yours? -granger
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
So, what exactly is the point of saying it is "mostly" organic? Profits I would think... Trying to market to the organic crowd without using correct practices...as long as they make a buck.

I sold you a car, it mostly runs...
Roof is reshingled, it mostly doesn't leak...

Sounds pretty legit to me.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
lol there where no giants 30 years ago

You're right--all things "organic" happened the day you were born. LOL, love the way people re-write history.

Guess these three pioneers are "midgets" and Lady Balfour's book, "Living Soil"--available on Amazon was not written before her time...
https://www.amazon.com/Living-Soil-Association-Organic-Classics/dp/190466508X

Sir Albert Howard (8 December 1873 – 20 October 1947) was an English botanist, an organic farming pioneer, and a principal figure in the early organic movement. He is considered by many in the English-speaking world to have been, along with Rudolf Steiner and Eve Balfour, one of the key founders of modern organic agriculture

Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925), founder of the biodynamic approach to agriculture, was a highly trained scientist and respected philosopher in his time, who later in his life came to prominence for his spiritual-scientific approach to knowledge called “anthroposophy.” Long before many of his contemporaries, Steiner came to the conclusion that western civilization would gradually bring destruction to itself and the earth if it did not begin to develop an objective understanding of the spiritual world and its interrelationship with the physical world. Steiner's spiritual-scientific methods and insights have given birth to practical holistic innovations in many fields, including education, banking, medicine, psychology, the arts and, not least, agriculture.

Lady Evelyn Barbara "Eve" Balfour, OBE (16 July 1898 – 16 January 1990) was a British farmer, educator, organic farming pioneer, and a founding figure in the organic movement. She was one of the first women to study agriculture at an English university, graduating from the institution now known as the University of Reading.[1]

Balfour, one of the six children of Gerald, Earl of Balfour, and the niece of former prime minister Arthur Balfour, had decided she wanted to be a farmer by the age of 12.[2]

In 1919, at the age of 21, she used her inheritance to buy New Bells Farm in Haughley Green, Suffolk.[1][2] In 1939, she launched the Haughley Experiment, the first long-term, side-by-side scientific comparison of organic and chemical-based farming.[3]

In 1943, leading London publishing house Faber & Faber published Balfour's book, The Living Soil. Reprinted numerous times, it became a founding text of the emerging organic food and farming movement.[4] The book synthesized existing arguments in favor of organics with a description of her plans for the Haughley Experiment.

In 1946, Balfour co-founded and became the first president of the Soil Association, an international organization which promotes sustainable agriculture (and the main organic farming association in the UK today[5]). She continued to farm, write and lecture for the rest of her life.[3] In 1958, she embarked on a year-long tour of Australia and New Zealand, during which she met Australian organic farming pioneers, including Henry Shoobridge, president of the Living Soil Association of Tasmania, the first organization to affiliate with the Soil Association.[6]

She was appointed OBE in the 1990 New Year Honours.


Weird, if you are going to be part of the "organic" religion--then you might know who the organic pioneers are, understand their accomplishments and achievements....and use their work as your "starting point". No reason for every child to "reinvent the wheel".

So, in your alternative universe, the fertilizer industry was born as a result of thee World Wars...and all things organic began 30 years ago. Got it.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Cut and Paste of Lady Balfour presentation in 1977 (40 years ago)--the bold section in the middle discusses the Haughley Experiment and the bold sentence at the bottom is known as the "land ethic", a reverence for "life"--"This requires that we extend the concept of Community to include all the species of life with which we share the planet."

http://www.soilandhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/GoodBooks/Towards%20a%20Sustainable%20Agriculture--The%20Living%20Soil.pdf


Towards a Sustainable Agriculture--The Living Soil
By Lady Eve Balfour

The following classic text in the organic movement is an address given by the late Lady Eve Balfour to an IFOAM conference in Switzerland in 1977
Reproduced with permission from the Organic Gardening and Farming Society of Tasmania Inc
© 1995, Canberra Organic Growers Society Inc.
Articles may be reproduced, with due recognition, for non-commercial education purposes only. Any printed reproduction should
include: (a) the above copyright statement; and (b) a reference to the COGS web site URL (http://www.netspeed.com.au/cogs).
Any material reproduced on a world wide web document must include: (a) the above copyright statement; and (b) a link to the
COGS web site.


In order to set the scene for this historic conference, and for the benefit of the younger participants, I
think it might be helpful to start by sketching, briefly, the origins and development of the, now world-
wide, organic movement. After that I propose to explain how my own involvement in the movement led to
the so-called 'Haughley Experiment', and outline the contribution which that experiment made towards
today's recognition of the importance of ecological awareness in Agriculture. Finally I want to share with
you some of my thoughts on what I believe should be our approach, both philosophical and pragmatic, in
working for a Sustainable Agriculture.
I do not know where or when the ideas that have brought us together here were first called a movement,
but I have little doubt that the main inspiration derived from the work of the early research pioneers in the
first quarter of this century, though this is not to discount the influence of one of the most important, who
was even earlier, namely Rudolf Steiner.
Those I particularly have in mind were: in the medical field, Sir Robert McCanison, Drs. Francis
Pottinger Jnr. and Weston Price, and in the agricultural field, Sir Albert Howard, Dr. William Albrecht,
and Dr. E. Pfeiffer.
Following these, and overlapping with them to a certain extent, came another wave of giants--men like
Dr. George Scott-Williamson, Dr. Lionel Picton, Dr. Dendy, Prof. Barry Commoner and the courageous
Rachel Carson, and among the list of departed great ones, I must, sadly, now add Dr. Schumacher.
These pioneers had one thing in common--they were what we should now call Ecologists. They all
succeeded in breaking away from the narrow confines of the preconceived ideas that dominated the
scientific thinking of their day. They looked at the living world from a new perspective--they also asked
new questions. Instead of the contemporary obsession with disease and its causes, they set out to discover
the causes of Health. This led inevitably to an awareness of wholeness (the two words after all, have the
same origin) and to a gradual understanding that all life is one.
Although I started farming in Suffolk in 1919 my own interest in the ecological approach only began in
the early 19?0's. By that time local societies had been formed in more than one country to promote organic
husbandry and whole food, though I was not aware of this until 1945 when plans were under way for
forming the Soil Association, the first society in the movement aiming at a world membership, and with
research high on its list of priorities, which brings me to the Haughley Experiment.
This was started in 1939 on my farm and taken over by the Soil Association in 1947 which for the next
25 years directed and sponsored it. This pioneering experiment was the first ecologically designed
agricultural research project, on a full farm scale. It was set up to fill a gap in the evidence on which the
claims for the benefits of organic husbandry were based. It was decided that the only way to achieve this
was to observe and study nutrition cycles, functioning as a whole, under contrasting methods of land use,
but on the same soil and under the same management, the purpose being to assess what effect, if any, the
different soil treatments had on the biological quality of the produce grown thereon, including its nutritive
value as revealed through its animal consumers. This had never been done before.
Three side-by-side units of land were established, each large enough to operate a full farm rotation, so
that the food-chains involved--soil--plant--animal and back to the soil, could be studied as they functioned
through successive rotational cycles, involving many generations of plants and animals, in order that
interdependences between soil, plant and animal, and also any cumulative effects could manifest.
In order that you may understand the significance of some of the results I cannot avoid a short summary
of how these units were operated. One was a stockless arable farm which for the purpose of this talk I
shall ignore--the other two were both ley farms (temporary pasture alternating with arable) operating the
same rotation. Each carried a herd of dairy cows, a flock of poultry and a small flock of sheep. All
livestock was fed exclusively on the produce of its own unit, replacements were home bred and cereal and
pulse crops raised from home-grown seed. All wastes of crops and stock were returned only to its own
unit. Only livestock products and surplus animals were sold off the farm. All crops were put through the
animals. On one of these two comparable units supplementary chemical fertilizers were used, as well as
herbicides, insecticides and fungicides when thought necessary. This unit was called the Mixed Section.
On the other unit, called the Organic Section, no chemicals were used. It was thus entirely dependent on
its own biological fertility. As nearly as possible a closed cycle was maintained so that a minimum of
unknown factors should be introduced into the food chain to confuse the issue.
You can see, I expect, why such an exploration into the unknown was left to the private enterprise of a
charitable society with small resources. It was at total variance with the fragmentary techniques of
orthodox agricultural research, which is based on randomised small plots--a technique quite incapable of
throwing any light on biological interdependencies in a functioning whole. The establishment of the day
even went so far as to declare that there was no case to investigate--they were particularly critical of the
closed system on the organic section, yet most of the significant findings were the outcome of this, and
would not have been revealed without it. I will attempt to summarise a few of the more important findings,
concentrating on those that have special relevance for the subject matter of this conference.
In addition to carefully recorded field observations, an extensive range of sample analyses (soil and
products) was carried out by the consultant bio-chemist, Dr. R.F. Milton. These included analyses for
available plant nutrients in every field every month for a period of over 10 years.
The outcome of this huge number of individual analyses, running into thousands, was a new discovery.
It was one of the most important single findings to come out of the experiment, because it was so
conclusive and, surprisingly, hitherto unsuspected by orthodox agricultural chemists--namely that the
levels of available minerals in the soil fluctuate according to the season, maximum levels coinciding with
the time of maximum plant demand. These fluctuations were far more marked on the Organic Section than
on the other two, where, moreover, they could be partly related to fertilizer application.
On the Organic Section, which received no fertilizers, the fluctuation was so marked that, for example,
in The field with the highest humus content and the longest history of no chemicals, as much as 10 times
more available phosphate has been recorded in the growing period of the year than in the dormant period.
Potash and nitrogen followed the same general pattern. It was clear, from the fact of the closed cycle, that
this seasonal release of minerals could only have been brought about by biological agencies, and it appears
to be a natural action-pattern of a biologically active soil.
When this finding was first published it was taken up by a Scottish University, repeated, confirmed, and
is now generally accepted. Previously it had been assumed that a single spot analysis at any time of year
could show what the soil required.
The many different chemical analyses, carried out on crops and livestock products, revealed no
consistent or significant differences between the sections, other than the usually higher water content of
the chemically grown fodder. Seasonal variations, and those between fields in the same section, often
exceeded average sectional differences. But this lack of difference was in itself significant in that on the
organic section, receiving no added minerals the analysis of soil and crops showed a nutrient status that
remained consistently as high as that of the others.
This indicates how little of the minerals applied as fertilizers are recovered in crops, and is important in
relation to the purpose of this conference. Dr. Milton has summed it up thus: "The analytical work carried
out in connection with the Haughley Experiment has shown how wasteful of natural resources is modern
commercial farming and how with a closed-cycle technique nutrients are recycled and moreover become
available in situ provided that an ecological approach is made to the methods of cultivation and farm
management."
Although analytical difference between the sections was negligible, there were functional differences of
some significance, such as the relative freedom from insect pest damage of the organic section crops, and
the longer working life of its livestock. A number of the functional differences noted threw up unanswered
questions and so point the directions for useful future research.
Three examples must serve to illustrate what I mean:
1. In spite of the mixed section receiving no less organic return than its organic counterpart it could be
clearly demonstrated that its fields had become dependent on their fertilizer supplements in a manner
suggestive of drug addiction. By contrast the organic fields developed an increasing biological vigour
which enabled them to be self-supporting. Had we not operated the closed cycle policy, this surprising
result would almost certainly have been attributed to whatever importation had taken place. I shall be
referring later to research work carried out during the last year and not yet published in detail that may
provide at least a partial explanation for this and my next example.
2. A consistent finding, particularly with autumn sown cereals, was a visual observation of an apparently
much delayed growth in the early stages on the Organic Section. Further examination, however, showed
that in this initial period the plant in an organic environment is 'concentrating' (if I may so put it) on
establishing a vigorous root system. Having done so, but not before, it is ready to make top growth (i.e. the
behaviour pattern of growth is quite different to that of plants growing in a chemical or 'mixed'
environment). This interpretation is supported by the fact that before the end of the growing season the
'organic' crops caught up the others and, as I have stated, remained able to look after themselves.
3. With the livestock, the temperament of the animals composing the herds and flocks exhibited
sectional differences, those belonging to the organic section being noticeably more contented. Our
findings also confirmed the many reports received from organic farmers in different parts of the world,
that a given output of animal products--milk, meat, eggs etc. required from 12-15% less input of food
when this was grown organically.
At Haughley for example, though the organic herbal leys were of clearly sparser growth than the much
lusher mixed-section leys, the cows on the former gave, over a 20 year period, around 15% more milk
than the other. (To forestall the obvious comment, we were able to show that this contrast was not due to a
genetic factor.)
Once more this finding is relevant to any discussion about an alternative and sustainable Agriculture,
and this is what I now want to talk about. To start with, I want to answer three widely held objections to
the idea that organic farming on a world scale can ever be possible.
The most frequently heard argument is that intensive chemical farming provides the only hope of
feeding the expanding world population and has therefore to be accepted whether we like it or not. To me
it seems probable that the exact opposite could prove to be the case, and that it is an alternative and largely
organic agriculture that will be forced upon us whether we like it or not. This is because, as is becoming
increasingly apparent, the days of the former are numbered. One reason is the enormous demands on the
world's non-renewable resources of energy, made by our Western life-style in general, and modern
farming techniques in particular. Another is that modern methods are putting strains on the biota which is
causing it to collapse.
Thus it is only common sense to look at alternatives, and in all seriousness study their potential viability.
It is not yet, however, generally accepted that the days of our present methods and behaviour are
numbered. Even where it is, it is too often regarded as a long term problem which must not be allowed to
obscure the immediate problem, namely the need to increase quantitative food production now. Here it is
argued that organic farming is less efficient, that it has to rely on re-cycling which is wasteful, so that were
it to be adopted, world food production would inevitably be lower, particularly production of protein, at a
time when what we need is to produce ever more per acre.
To this I would like to point out three things:
1. A common view among nutritionists today is that the amount of protein (especially animal protein)
hitherto thought to be required by man has been greatly over- estimated. (Organic farmers have found this
also to be true for livestock).
2. There need be little loss in re-cycling if we did not waste so much.
3. Certainly we need to produce more per acre. Unfortunately the yardstick of modern economics is to
measure the efficiency by production per man.
Labour-intensive small units will always be able to produce spectacularly more per acre than the large
mechanised farms, apart from the finding that organically grown food goes further. When the inevitable
change in life-style takes place I predict that we shall find it easier to feed the world population than we
think, perhaps easier than now because Western Nations will presumably have become less gluttonous. I
predict also that we shall all be healthier!
We still hear, though less frequently than we used to, the argument that there is no scientific basis for
advocating exclusive use of organic manures, such as FYM and compost, because 'there is absolutely no
difference between a plant nutrient contained in organic materials and the same nutrient in in-organic
chemical form'. There may be no chemical, or other easily analysable, difference, but there is a
demonstrable functional difference. Anything having an effect on root distribution, for example, may have
an effect on plant nutrition because it will influence the volume of soil explored.
Thus good soil structure in depth, such as is obtained in a biologically active soil, can improve
productivity simply by increasing the depth of soil exploited for water and nutrients. There is now well
documented scientific evidence that fertilizer concentrations of N and P have an influence on localised
root branching. They induce it at the expense of deep rooting exploration. This could well lead to luxury
uptakes of N and P linked to inadequate uptake of other nutrients.
There are implications in this for nutrient unbalance in the crop and thereby some risk of nutrient
unbalance in the animals and humans feeding upon it. If root activity is a factor in the development and
maintenance of soil structure, there are also implications in this for the overall pattern of soil development.
This is the work I was referring to earlier as possibly throwing light on some Haughley findings. (A
reference to it is M.C. Drew Ag. Research Council Letcome Laboratory Annual Report for 1975-1976).
In a biologically active soil, which implies one adequately provided with organic matter and natural rock
minerals, the latter are released as the plant want them, moreover the roots are presented with a complete
diet from which they can pick and choose.
Plants are highly selective in such circumstances, hence the value of some of the deep rooting weeds
(which the organic farmer calls herbs when he sows them deliberately). Normal chemical fertilizers, apart
from the disadvantage just mentioned are far too simple: A plant's mineral requirements are many times
wider in range. By giving only two or three which stimulate bulk growth, others, equally important, are
exhausted, or locked up in the immediate neighbourhood of the rhizosphere, thus leading, as already
mentioned, to unbalanced nutrition of the plant and often, through their solubility, to serious
environmental pollution.
Plant nutrients do not, as was once taught, all have to be reduced to simple inorganic solutions in order to
be absorbed. Plants can ingest quite complex organic molecules, unbroken. The history of D.D.T. provides
irrefutable evidence for this. So do such symbiotic mechanisms as mycorrhizal association, whereby the
plant may well derive some nutrient equivalent to vitamins in animal nutrition.
A possible additional factor for which, I readily admit, there is at present no scientific proof but which
seems to me to provide an interpretation consistent with many observations, is that, in nature's food-
chains, a plant's normal method of mineral intake is not direct, but second-hand, the mineral plant-foods
being, as it were, by-products of the activity of the soil micro-flora and other members of the soil
population.
Such by-products have a far more complex and comprehensive formula than N, P and K and moreover
are living substances. Inorganic chemicals are inert. A food-chain is not only a material circuit, but also an
energy circuit. Soil fertility has been defined as the capacity of soil to receive, store and transmit energy. A
substance may be the same chemically but very different as a conductor of living energy. The hypothesis
is that the energy manifesting in birth, growth, reproduction, death, decay and rebirth, can only flow
through channels composed of living cells, and that when the flow is interrupted by inert matter it can be
short-circuited with consequent damage to some part of the food-chain, not necessarily where the block
occurred. The Anthroposophical Society's Research establishment at Dornach in this country
(Switzerland) has provided some evidence in support of such a view.
I would like to see much more research undertaken in this field.
Now I want to put forward what I believe our aims should be in evolving a sustainable agriculture, and
then, finally, pass on to you some thoughts on organic farming as I see it.
The criteria for a sustainable agriculture can be summed up in one word--permanence, which means
adopting techniques that maintain soil fertility indefinitely; that utilise, as far as possible, only renewable
resources; that do not grossly pollute the environment; and that foster life energy (or if preferred biological
activity) within the soil and throughout the cycles of all the involved food-chains.
This is what biological husbandry sets out to attempt--with an increasing degree of understanding and
success among its practitioners. Throughout the world, as a result of their own experience, these sincerely
believe that they can offer a genuine and viable alternative agriculture, capable of solving many of the
problems of mankind. This possibility, as well as the need for it, is becoming increasingly recognised in
academic and scientific circles.
I am often asked how, in a broad sense, I define Organic Farming as opposed to conventional farming.
Though I prefer the term biological husbandry because of its emphasis on life, the short answer is balance;
however I think it is necessary to amplify a little.
Contrary to the views held by some, I am sure that the techniques of organic farming cannot be
imprisoned in a rigid set of rules. They depend essentially on the outlook of the farmer. Without a positive
and ecological approach it is not possible to farm organically. The approach of the modern conventional
farmer is negative, narrow and fragmentary, and consequently produces imbalance. His attitude to 'pests'
and 'weeds', for example, is to regard them as enemies to be killed--if possible exterminated. When he
attacks them with lethal chemicals he seldom gives a thought to the effect this may have on the food
supply or habitat of other forms of wildlife among whom he has many more friends than foes. The
predatory insects and the insectivorous birds are obvious examples.
The attitude of the organic farmer, who has trained himself to think ecologically, is different. He tries to
see the living world as a whole. He regards so-called pests and weeds as part of the natural pattern of the
Biota, probably necessary to its stability and permanence, to he utilized rather than attacked. Throughout
his operations he endeavours to achieve his objective by co-operating with natural agencies in place of
relying on man-made substitutes. He studies what appear to be nature's rules - as manifested in a healthy
wilderness--and attempts to adapt them to his own farm needs, instead of flouting them.
One of the first things be will notice about a natural eco-system such as a Wilderness or a Natural Forest
is Balance and Stability. The innumerable different species of fauna and flora that go to make up such a
community, achieve, as a result of their interdependence, whether in cooperation or competition, collective
immortality. Seldom, if ever, is any species eliminated; seldom, if ever, does any species multiply to pest
proportions. Thus the organic farmer, if he has a crop badly attacked by some pest, let us say, (and this can
happen, even to organic farmers!) recognises that this is a symptom of imbalance in his local environment,
and he first looks to see if some faulty technique of his own has been responsible--often it has.
This does not mean that he can always avoid emergency remedial measures but these he employs only
when there is a real emergency, not as a routine. He strives instead to bring about biological balance, and
it is remarkable the extent to which organic farmers and growers do in fact achieve this. I could give you
several examples, but one must suffice.
Some years ago a large scale organic commercial grower of my acquaintance, growing vegetables, fruit
and flowers was visited by a team of scientists from Cambridge University--they included plant
pathologists and entomologists. They knew it was an unsprayed holding and they came looking for
disease and pests. They found isolated examples of everything they expected to find, but, as they put it,
they failed to find a single case of crop damage.
Besides biological balance, the ecologically minded organic farmer takes note of, and tries to apply,
other apparent biological roles. For example nature's diversity of species he adapts through rotations,
under-sowing, and avoiding monoculture of crops or animals. Nature's habit of filtering sunlight and rain
through some form of protective soil cover, he adapts by such practices as cover-cropping and mulching.
Top soil on the top appears to be nature's plan. Organic matter is always deposited on the surface. It is left
to the earthworms and some insects to take it below. The organic farmer also puts his compost and
farmyard manure on, or very near, the surface and in carrying out mechanical cultivations keeps soil-
inversion to a minimum, the tine cultivator being preferred to the plough.
Nature's highly efficient re-cycling system ensures provision of living food for all organisms in the food
chain from soil bacteria and fungi to large fauna; the organic farmer therefore lays great stress on the
conservation and return to the soil of all organic residues. His aim is to feed and to assist proliferation of
the soil population and to leave it to feed the crop.
Finally, and of equal importance, he notes, and tries to reproduce, the almost perfect structure of a
biologically active soil which alone ensures the three most important characteristics of a fertile soil--good
aeration, water-holding capacity, and free drainage.
It is quite astonishing the extent to which this all-important property of good soil is neglected in modern
agriculture. Poor soil structure leads to imbalance between water and air in the pore spaces of the soil.
Many apparent mineral or trace mineral deficiencies in the soil turn out to be oxygen deficiencies. When
that is corrected the others disappear.
In most agricultural soils there is really plenty of mineral plant food for the nutritional requirements of
plants, even when continuously cropped, if their roots are allowed to exploit it downwards. The key to this
is good soil structure which is greatly influenced by the activity of earthworms. The techniques of modern
farming tend to destroy good structure in a number of ways, such as by the impaction of heavy
implements, by carrying out cultivations in unsuitable weather conditions, and by failure to provide
sufficient organic food and/or a suitable lime status for the earthworm population.
All these faults are the outcome of failure to think ecologically--they are symptoms of a degree of
fragmentation in our approach to the living world which has become a real threat to our survival.
Throughout biological evolution, starting from single celled organisms right up to the complexity of rain
forests, the process has been characterised by increasing diversity among species, lengthening of the food
chains, and progressive enrichment of the environment.
For the first time in the history of the planet the actions of modern man appear to be putting this process
into reverse. Whole species of fauna and flora are being eliminated, the food-chains are becoming shorter,
and the environment progressively impoverished. It only takes a little imagination to picture what could
happen if the trend continues.
What are we going to do about it? This is the real challenge for the International Federation of Organic
Agriculture Movements, and in my view it is one of education. The Soil Association is doing an excellent
pioneering job in adult education into the principles and practice of biological husbandry. It is now
urgently necessary that a still wider aspect of ecology should also form part of the regular curriculum of all
schools, starting at the primary stage. The trouble is we have first to teach the teachers, and here, I think,
we must be agreed on what we want to teach.
There are two motivations behind an ecological approach--one is based on self interest, however
enlightened, i.e. when consideration for other species is taught solely because on that depends The
survival of our own.
The other motivation springs from a sense that the biota is a whole, of which we are a part, and that the
other species which compose it and helped to create it; are entitled to existence in their own right. This is
the wholeness approach and it is my hope and belief that this is what we, as a federation, stand for.
If I am right, this means that we cannot escape from the ethical and spiritual values of life for they are
part of wholeness. To ignore them and their implications would be to pursue another form of
fragmentation. Therefore, I hold that what we have to teach is the attitude defined by Aldo Leopold as 'A
Land Ethic'. This requires that we extend the concept of Community to include all the species of life with
which we share the planet. We must foster a reverence for all life, even that which we are forced to
control, and we must, as Leopold put it--'Quit thinking about decent land use as solely an economic
problem, but examine each question in terms of what is ethically and aesthetically right, as well as what is
economically expedient. A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the
biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise'.
That quotation expresses what I believe should be our guidelines.
 
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Pwyll

Member
Go into a store or dispensary. Ask if the product is organic. They will give you some bullshit shpiel rather than just being up front and saying NO
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
You're right--all things "organic" happened the day you were born. LOL, love the way people re-write history.

Guess these three pioneers are "midgets" and Lady Balfour's book, "Living Soil"--available on Amazon was not written before her time...
https://www.amazon.com/Living-Soil-Association-Organic-Classics/dp/190466508X

Sir Albert Howard (8 December 1873 – 20 October 1947) was an English botanist, an organic farming pioneer, and a principal figure in the early organic movement. He is considered by many in the English-speaking world to have been, along with Rudolf Steiner and Eve Balfour, one of the key founders of modern organic agriculture

Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925), founder of the biodynamic approach to agriculture, was a highly trained scientist and respected philosopher in his time, who later in his life came to prominence for his spiritual-scientific approach to knowledge called “anthroposophy.” Long before many of his contemporaries, Steiner came to the conclusion that western civilization would gradually bring destruction to itself and the earth if it did not begin to develop an objective understanding of the spiritual world and its interrelationship with the physical world. Steiner's spiritual-scientific methods and insights have given birth to practical holistic innovations in many fields, including education, banking, medicine, psychology, the arts and, not least, agriculture.

Lady Evelyn Barbara "Eve" Balfour, OBE (16 July 1898 – 16 January 1990) was a British farmer, educator, organic farming pioneer, and a founding figure in the organic movement. She was one of the first women to study agriculture at an English university, graduating from the institution now known as the University of Reading.[1]

Balfour, one of the six children of Gerald, Earl of Balfour, and the niece of former prime minister Arthur Balfour, had decided she wanted to be a farmer by the age of 12.[2]

In 1919, at the age of 21, she used her inheritance to buy New Bells Farm in Haughley Green, Suffolk.[1][2] In 1939, she launched the Haughley Experiment, the first long-term, side-by-side scientific comparison of organic and chemical-based farming.[3]

In 1943, leading London publishing house Faber & Faber published Balfour's book, The Living Soil. Reprinted numerous times, it became a founding text of the emerging organic food and farming movement.[4] The book synthesized existing arguments in favor of organics with a description of her plans for the Haughley Experiment.

In 1946, Balfour co-founded and became the first president of the Soil Association, an international organization which promotes sustainable agriculture (and the main organic farming association in the UK today[5]). She continued to farm, write and lecture for the rest of her life.[3] In 1958, she embarked on a year-long tour of Australia and New Zealand, during which she met Australian organic farming pioneers, including Henry Shoobridge, president of the Living Soil Association of Tasmania, the first organization to affiliate with the Soil Association.[6]

She was appointed OBE in the 1990 New Year Honours.


Weird, if you are going to be part of the "organic" religion--then you might know who the organic pioneers are, understand their accomplishments and achievements....and use their work as your "starting point". No reason for every child to "reinvent the wheel".

So, in your alternative universe, the fertilizer industry was born as a result of thee World Wars...and all things organic began 30 years ago. Got it.


I meant in regards to growing pot

well before that my brother was a chairman for a sustainable farm here in teh 80's

my brother was attending columbia at the time

the owner and mamager of hte farm is a respected organic author consulting on the west coast now

I grow LOS have for years

My property has been los since my brother managed the farm

these discussions (ecological benefits of LOS) have been gone over ad nauseam what is the point of overwhelming a "is it organic" thread with LOS mantra?

You don't have to sell me but you certainly are trying to make sustainability a measuring contest

tell that to the eocsystems in decline right now and see if it heals them any

you have no clue regarding the depth the chemagro industry and how there is a culture that believes in it

you are not going to get people to go from traditional to LOS without a transition, if you really care about sustainability rationalism in the deployment there of is necessary or it won't happen

bad enough we have people try to undermine diy los because they have capitalistic agendas then you get the church of los trying to force feed it down everyone's throat

my take is that internet douchebaggery is at a all time high because people can't handle the stronger weeds.. gets them all wacked out like tweakers
 
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