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Echinacea & Astralagus - What Have they Helped you With ?

St. Phatty

Active member
I have a tooth with a functional vein & artery that is now missing a nerve, because of an infection.

The pain is mostly gone, same for the infection. There is a small amount of inflammation in the gum around the tooth that had the infection.

At an appointment a week ago, they proposed to do a root canal tomorrow.

I said, not so fast. Before we KILL my tooth, which has circulation, let's see what it can do on its own.

I've already done all the health things you can DO to help your immune system - if you're on a budget. I still pass by the Pomegranate juice.

Anyway, I started today with Herb-Pharm's "Daily Immune Builder".

Looking for a dentist who can do the nerve function tests in a month or 2. Those are the tests that the dentist does where they tap on the tooth, or spray a solvent that evaporates fast, so it gets cold, on a Q-tip or something.

Anyway, I'm curious what other folks have noticed from taking -

Echinacea
Astralagus
reishi mushroom
schisandra berry
prickly ash bark
 

watts

ohms
Veteran
I take reishi every day, twice a day. Really helps my allergies, balances emotions, helps depression/anxiety, helps adapt to stress as well as other benefits. I recommend Jing Herbs or Hyperion Herbs brand.
Schisandra, Lycium, Astragalus, Eleuthero, Cordyceps, Lion's Mane, Chaga, Turkey Tail, Gynostemma also very good. Just gets expensive, lol. If you can only pick one, I recommend Reishi.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
I also bought Spring Valley Echinacae at Walmart.

760 mg tablets.

Thought I would wait & take it in the morning in case it is a stimulant in that quantity.

When I read online about how much Echinacae juice people take, it's 5 ml of juice (5 grams), or 1 ml (1 gram) of tincture.

vs. the 3/4 gram capsules from Walmart. Says it has "organic rice hull concentrate" that the Echinacae is mixed with.

I wonder if the $4 Walmart Echinacae is as potent as the $40 Herb Pharm Echinacae.
 

watts

ohms
Veteran
Never tried it but Walmart mostly cashes in on the name of herbs like that. Those cheap brands are usually full of rice/starches. The good brands you can't find in the store are usually more potent and pure. Herb pharm is a good brand. Nature's Answer makes a good Echinacae also. Gaia Herbs Astragalus Supreme is a good one also. Oregon's Wild Harvest Astragalus. Jing Herbs STR-12 is very good for immune system as well. At the least, definitely get some Astragalus for immune system.
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
That's a nice blend of immuno boosting and modulating herbs..

Astragalus is one of my favourite herbs..

I would prescribe this sort of blend for stressed people with obvious signs of immune sensitization or suppression..

Since Echinacea and Astragalus (and Reishi) are immune modulators they will rebalance your TH1/TH2 immune system branches which can go out of wack due to stress, can be seasonal stress.. Echinacea is also a really quite powerful lymphatic which is super important to keep flowing cleanly around the body.. muscular contraction in exercise is important since the lymphatics don't flow like blood.. cells are bathed in lymph and it brings immune cells around the body so boosting your lymphatics is super important especially when they often stagnate in Autumn and spring..

The schisandra is probably there for liver phase 2 detoxification and the prickly ash to open up peripheral circulation which also helps detox the liver and as an envoy opens up the channels of the body for the herbs to travel further.

These herbs are safe no matter what illness you have because they are amphoteric, like almost all herbs, your body takes what it needs.

I'd also recommend "fungi perfecti" for their medicinal mushroom extract products. And just eating more medicinal mushrooms(shiitake counts) as they are fantastic immune boosting and anti microbial with novel polysaccharides and triterpenoid saponins..

Hot and cold hydrotherapy is also brilliant for the immune system, like the Scandinavians doing saunas then jumping in a frozen lake.. it flushes the lymphatics around, apart from the liver maybe the most important forgotten system of the body..

I am a qualified herbalist fyi..
 
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watts

ohms
Veteran
Yeah a member here recommended me take fungi perfecti (host defense) Reishi for allergies because it always bothered me during harvest/trim time. Since taking Reishi my allergies are much better as well as other benefits I've noticed. That's what got me more interested in medicinal mushrooms and other herbs.

A note about safety though: I have read Echinacea shouldn't be taken long term but Astragalus is safe to take long term. I know one person who had cancer and now they alternate with Echinacea for 3 months and 3 grams of Turkey Tail for 3 months to keep immune system strong, along with a healthy diet.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
I'm finding that Echinacea has sort of a drug-like effect on me (drowsy/dizzy), like it's better to not drive. So I might take the 760 mg capsules at night.

Also started cooking with spices that I think are good for the immune system -
garlic
ginger root
Turmeric
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
You're correct watts, Echinacea should be taken for acute conditions. That's how we use it. it doesn't work taken proactively or anything like that. Whereas astragalus and the mushrooms can be taken whenever.. actually Echinacea should really only be in acute formulas.. it's a very safe herb though with very few contraindications or reports of serious adverse effects.

Echinacea being a quite powerful lymphatic means it isn't needed as a regular or constant thing.. however at a low dose in a formula it's still totally safe.

A replacement long term lymphatic is Cleavers (Galium aparine)..

Always always listen to your body.. it will tell you what it wants and needs and when it doesn't which can be quite sudden with herbs..

Herbs are food, food are herbs..

Make a super tonic:

Equal parts :

Onions
Ginger
Chillies
Horseradish
Garlic

Infuse in Apple cider vinegar for 10 days and press.. it will kill anything when you're ill and makes a mean dressing the rest of the time :tiphat:
 

St. Phatty

Active member
I wish there was more statistical info/ metrics about how well nutritional supplements work.

I know the FDA tries to limit the claims that are made, but I have zero respect for the FDA.

The FDA completely dropped the ball in the 00's, and one of their retired directors admitted it in his post-retirement website.

A big website where people simply chronicle their experiences with a given diet or set of food supplements - that would be great.

IC Mag might be an example. Obviously we talk about everything Cannabis related. But there is medical info here, about Cannabis conclusively helping members with various health conditions.

another example
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?132151-Echinacea-for-horses

Echinacea for Horses !


https://www.curezone.org/blogs/c/am.asp?i=974369

Curezone, this thread is about treating a urological situation.
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
The body will up-regulate absorption when low on nutrients through starvation of that nutrient and most half decent meals have a complete nutritional profile. However there are more complicated reasons as to why a digestive system/body may not be able to absorb more of a nutrient than starvation.. Cancer, toxicity of competing charged elements, genetic SNPs causing a lack of coding for enzymes of various kinds, metabolic disorders, parasites etc etc.

Though I do occasionally advise a couple mineral supplements like magnesium citrate for example I feel that eating good fresh home cooked clean food and making sure you aren't constipated (healthy rate of defecation is 2 motions a day) is the best route.

Food state vitamins/minerals are absorbed best because they are correctly chelated/bound but nothing can beat the availability of fresh plant matter. Multivitamins and supplements are very very poorly absorbed compared to eating a plant with those in and also you can make yourself more toxic with mineral based nutritional supplementation.

This is based on my clinical experience.. I spent a good few years with labs and bloods and genetic testing results in front of me for various clients and it became obvious to me that we really are what we eat foremost. You want to be fresh and vibrant like a recently plucked apple or broccoli not cold and dead like a multivitamin..

The other thing is everything you eat selects on your gut biome.. And the healthiest gut microbiomes have been found to be in Hungarian farmers because they don't eat mono-cultured food and they eat a wide range of only fresh homegrown vegetables, faecal implant therapy/profiles are based on their gut biomes, imagine being paid for your shit ;). and they have 0% gastrointestinal disorders and very very little inflammatory conditions. GIT autotoxemia is really quite prevalent in the West but we invariably eat shit so no wonder. Just my opinion and experience :2cents:..
 

St. Phatty

Active member
The body will up-regulate absorption when low on nutrients through starvation of that nutrient and most half decent meals have a complete nutritional profile. However there are more complicated reasons as to why a digestive system/body may not be able to absorb more of a nutrient than starvation.. Cancer, toxicity of competing charged elements, genetic SNPs causing a lack of coding for enzymes of various kinds, metabolic disorders, parasites etc etc.

And the healthiest gut microbiomes have been found to be in Hungarian farmers because they don't eat mono-cultured food and they eat a wide range of only fresh homegrown vegetables, faecal implant therapy/profiles are based on their gut biomes, imagine being paid for your shit ;). and they have 0% gastrointestinal disorders and very very little inflammatory conditions. GIT autotoxemia is really quite prevalent in the West but we invariably eat shit so no wonder. Just my opinion and experience :2cents:..

I would love to somehow get my stomach healthy enough so I can drink beer again.

Somehow, alcohol hurts my stomach, even at low proof. Makes it hard to sleep because it's like I ate a chili pepper.

I was thinking maybe I have killed the good bacteria, and it would benefit from more yogurt, kefir, etc.
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
Does bread cause you pain?

Or any other foods in particular?

That sounds like auto immune inflammation.

Try drinking a lot more german chamomile and fennel tea and see if that takes some pain away, it should.

It's possible your gut biome is off, most people's are. I often found when someone said that they had a history that suggested it might be an issue interrelated with their health.

An old maxim goes something like "even the healthiest food will turn to poison in a system that cannot fully digest it".. I like the Ayurvedic concept of agni or digestive fire!

I did see quite a few people who had developed an intolerance to gluten and other inflammatory foods/ common allergens I'm not going to lie.. and in every case everyone I've known has responded well to an exclusion diet and improving the diversity of fresh green food they consume as well.

If you were my client, in this situation I would probably (I'm trained to go through all systems of the body in a 1.5 hour consultation so "probably" is the best I can say) first have you:

Do an exclusion diet of all inflammatory foods like dairy, gluten, solanacea, high GL or GI foods, processed/tinned etc. For 6 months minimum, you should be thinking 2 years. Fermented foods can be iffy here as they actually raise histamine. But goats yoghurt and kefir is cool and some prebiotics, I found a few brands useful but have moved away more from adding in the bacteria as it is not them or lack of that is the problem it is the environment in our GITs because of what we eat and our digestive capacity..

Then #2 at the same time get you to do a gut cleanse which involves first getting your bowel motions up to 2 a day and taking a powder blend 3 times in between meals.. this blend is commonly used with wonderful effects in herbalism and contains psyllium husk, slippery elm, marshmallow root, activated charcoal, bentonite clay and Apple pectin, fennel and flax seed.. this is slippery slimy, bulking, soothing, healing, detoxing.. used by millions every day in my industry..

Then #3 A liver cleanse.. often the wearing down of cillia in the GIT by the body attacking itself and the weakening of the tight junctions that maintain gut permeability lead to a leaky gut. The foreign antigens and macromolecules passing more freely into the blood and auto immune cascades put tremendous pressure on the liver as it has to clean the blood up and some how do 400 other things at the same time.. Livers are awesome things.

Liver cleanses are well designed, natural and purely food and herb based..

It starts with a smoothie designed to fire off liver phase 1 detoxification then a herbal decoction is drunk that fires phase 2 and 3 and in this cleans the blood and liver and can dredge slushy bile from the gallbladder/livet.. Dr Schulz you'll find it under in the states.. can clearly put years on your life..

Then I would want to see you after a month or 2 to see how your digestion was.. Then pro and prebiotics might start to take a much more central stage..

These are completely safe processes that save lives. The knock on effects of having poor digestion are the aggravating cause of most major diseases imo. That and the way different genetics respond to our lifestyle.

Try the German chamomile and digestive seeds, fenugreek, fennel and caraway.. fenugreek possibly being the most soothing in your case.. German chamomile is about the most anti inflammatory herb around.

I went down this path to help people so anyone wanting further details or advice of where to find help or herbs, other than our green queen, you can shoot me a pm.
 
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St. Phatty

Active member
Does bread cause you pain?

Or any other foods in particular?

That sounds like auto immune inflammation.

I went down this path to help people so anyone wanting further details or advice of where to find help or herbs, other than our green queen, you can shoot me a pm.

Thanks again for the info !

Afraid I mixed metaphors too much. yes I would like to drink a beer without my stomach objecting. But just to be clear -
Is the new stuff you're suggesting more for re-building digestive system micro-flora&fauna ?

Admittedly, there could be a relation between that and tooth pain.

Today Wednesday, guess I've been consuming the Echinacae etc. for a week.

As far as gluten intolerance - no problems with bread. I eat 3, 4, or 5 pieces for breakfast before drinking coffee. & in the morning is when I have the most energy.

Until I get time to analyze the Herb Pharm product more ... it seems like the standard 'one dropper in a glass of water' dosing results in miniscule consumption of the desired ingredients. Almost like Homeopathy.

After a week of removing dropperfulls of fluid, I'd barely put a dent in the 4 ounce container ?!

Anyway, I'm thinking I should consume 1x 4 ounce container a week while I am seriously trying to boost my immune system.

So that will be about 1/2 fluid ounce a day - 20 to 50 dropper-fulls.

Would that be Too Much ?
 

watts

ohms
Veteran
This is what the Natue's Answer brand Echinacea says, so maybe something similar: As a dietary supplement take 1 mL (28 drops) three (3) times a day in a small amount of water. May double frequency for 2 days maximum. Shake well.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
Nothing like a tooth-ache to inspire an early Cannabis harvest.

attachment.php


Blue Headband x Blue Widow

Got a piece of her sitting in the 'hot box', a box made of black anodized aluminum plates, that sits next to a West-facing window. In the afternoon it gets sun and works pretty good for quick drying stuff.
 

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Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
If that "tooth pain" is in there with bleeding and receeding gums/periodontal disease then that will be constantly seeding you GIT with pathogenic bacteria.. and blood directly with toxins.

I did talk on this so had to do a lot of research,, it's the cause behind quite a few major disease pathologies.. including cardiac events/infarctions as the bacteria build up on the valve on the right side of the heart.. but kidney and liver disease, arthritis and gastro problems for sure..

Don't use a stiff toothbrush, use an electric to massage the gum line.. brush before and after all food.. use an Ayurvedic toothpaste.. smoke less.. try and increase blood flow into your mouth.. I use a herbal mouthwash as well..

Smoking anything, alcohol, coffee, sugary drinks all contribute to reduced peripheral circulation to the capillaries in the gums..
 

St. Phatty

Active member
Well I appreciate all the comments.

It's becoming obvious as of Saturday afternoon that the "plateau" the tooth health is on is not an upward sloping curve.

Continued pain, gum recession, and other unpleasant feelings.

People use the metaphor of a Root Canal as being like a worst case, pain wise.

But to be honest, when it's done right, the Root Canal is the end of the pain. I've had significant tooth pain since mid August.

The last 7 weeks of my life have been like an immersive VR sequence in a Marathon Man Marathon. With Accessory Ennervation hooked up !

I stopped with the tablets of Echinacea on Thursday, so I think I took those for 7 days.

I haven't been booking solid nights of sleep and I think that's more important than any one herb. 760 mg is an intense amount.

It's interesting how one can pace one's work pace to match one's debilitated condition.

I needed to visit a neighbor who has gifted me some great pot in the past. So I used one of the days when I was zonked from the Echinacae & basically the whole experience to visit him. Brought him some pot.

He showed me his own approach to dental care. It involves pliars and the belief that in his family the playing field is not level, teeth wise, i.e. that they are pre-destined to lose all of them.

Next time I see him I'm going to suggest that he charge $$ per person and do a public demonstration of his dental methods. Maybe I can convince him to do it at some local open mike night ?
 
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