What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Haskel 4AAD-2

lastone

New member
This Screenshot_20190103-095708.jpg
 

Dave at Haskel

Active member
The Haskel 4AAD-2 is what is called an Air Amplifier. It was designed to boost compressed air pressure. Terp did some testing with one and was able to get some very good results. It does have a displacement of 60 cubic inches (3 times the displacement of an EXT420), however it can only increase the gas pressure to as high as the drive air pressure + the incoming vapor pressure. So if you have drive air of 80 psig and the butane or propane vapor pressure is 30 psig, the maximum output pressure is 80 + 30 psig = 110 psig. The other good thing is that it has a 4" air drive, so it uses half the drive air that the EXT420 uses (at the same cycle rate). So, theoretically the 4AAD-2 will move 3 times as much vapor as the EXT420 using half the air.

Sounds pretty good? Well, there are some drawbacks. The 4AAD-2 does not have internal separation like the EXT420 does, so it is possible (and likely) to get cross contamination between the drive air and the process gas (butane/propane). My biggest concern is that the drive air/compressor air will get into the solvent. That may not sound too bad, but the compressor air has oil (from the compressor) mixed in with it and it will contaminate the solvent with the compressor lubrication oil.

Terp told me that they are promoting it for use only with bottled nitrogen as the drive source. Bottled nitrogen is dry and will not add any contaminants to solvent, although it may be necessary to "burp" the nitrogen out of the solvent storage tank. Also, when driving off a nitrogen bottle, it is necessary to get a high pressure regulator that can drop the high pressure from the nitrogen bottle down to less than 125 psig (the maximum drive air pressure for the 4AAD-2).

Because of the good results that Terp did see with the 4AAD-2, Haskel is working on a pump with similar specifications to the 4AAD-2, but it will have separation to keep the drive air and the solvent vapor separate (just like the EXT420). We did get a prototype of the new pump in the field several months ago and it did provide very good results (about 3 times the recovery rate of the EXT420) however, it did have a failure. Haskel Engineering is working on a fix for the failure and I hope to have it back in test very shortly.

Sorry for the long answer. Let me know if you have any questions.

Dave
 

lastone

New member
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Dave.That is the information I've been looking for. Any Idea how much longer before the new unit will be available?I wonder if the compressed air could be filtered. Or what about oil less compressors.🤔 Or maybe cold trap. I wonder how much nitrogen would cost to run it? I'm in Alaska so things cost alot here.I already have a 420 and big compressor at a new extraction facility. I'm trying to out fit a smaller medical operation.
 

Dave at Haskel

Active member
I wish I could tell you how long it will be before the new pump is available (I'm a little frustrated with our engineering department over this....). Whether or not filtration will be sufficient is going to be your call. Just assume that whatever is in the compressed air will come into contact with your solvent.

We do have another pump that we have been selling for many years, it the AGD-1.5. It has a displacement of 60 cubic inches and it's maximum output pressure is 1.5 X the drive pressure + the incoming vapor pressure. It will use about the same amount of air as the EXT420 and it does include separation to keep the drive air separate from the process vapor.

Regarding the nitrogen cleanliness, as long as you get the nitrogen from a reputable supplier, you should be fine. I don't know the cost of the nitrogen, especially up on Alaska (I get up there once a year or so and I know that everything is more expensive up there).

Dave
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
How can one be sure There Is not contamination in the nitrogen?


It is typically cryogenically produced by air reduction, and you should ostensibly be in the low parts per millionth contamination with even industrial grades.
 

irishf0x

New member
Eww stay away from Pacific Air. Those guys are a bunch of yokles especially after Corky retired.

Just call up Portland Compressor in Tigard, OR and ask for a C55 filter. They cater to the industry well here.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
In industry, we often had to supply breathing air for operators in areas like walk in sandblasting. The first link below is the NIOSH standards for breathing air, and the following links companies that offer equipment meeting those standards.

https://www.airbestpractices.com/st...stem-assessments/niosh-and-osha-grade-d-stand

https://www.donaldson.com/en-be/com...cts/compressed-air-gas/breathing-air-systems/

https://www.atlascopco.com/en-us/compressors/products/air_filters/BAP_plus_breathing_air_purifier

https://www.airsystems.com/index.php/2009-03-24-20-39-27/plant-breathing-air

Dave mentioned the need to purge any air that leaked into the product side, and it is a key point. If you don't, recovery takes for ever, because the non condensible gasses act as a rebound spring in the recovery tank, pushing back against the pump discharge.

PS: WolfWurx used Portland Compressor in Portland, and they were competitive and provided good customer support. In retirement I haven't purchased any heavy industrial equipment in over a decade, but typically bought Quincy compressors and ancillary equipment from Rogers Machinery in Portland due to pricing and service.
 
Last edited:

lastone

New member
So I'm definitely down on purging my tank sometimes I Run with a small amount of dry ice in my column. What do you guys think about running mct oil in a compressor? Looking at different food grade oils also.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So I'm definitely down on purging my tank sometimes I Run with a small amount of dry ice in my column. What do you guys think about running mct oil in a compressor? Looking at different food grade oils also.


Using MCT oil in a non-oil free recovery compressor, is one of the things that we tried along the way and a similar application.

Compressor oils are formulated to maximize compressor life, so MCT oil shortens the life of the compressor bearing and the piston seals separating it from the product.

As a bottom line, even MCT oil in most concentrates is not a good thang.
 

lastone

New member
This pump is a beast �� even if you have to rebuild
it . It won't take very many runs with this to make up the price of a rebuild. I'm filling my Terp 4c at least half full and it can recover it in less than an hour.
 

Dave at Haskel

Active member
This pump is a beast �� even if you have to rebuild
it . It won't take very many runs with this to make up the price of a rebuild. I'm filling my Terp 4c at least half full and it can recover it in less than an hour.

That's great news! I'm glad to hear it. Keep me in the loop on how it continues to perform for you.

Thanks,

Dave
 

lastone

New member
I'm probably at least 20 runs in on this pump now I have a video but I got to get it on the internet so I can post it here I guess. Dave do you have any idea how much the rebuild kit cost for this? Also do you need to get the entire rebuild kit or just the seals is that a thing?
 

Dave at Haskel

Active member
I'm probably at least 20 runs in on this pump now I have a video but I got to get it on the internet so I can post it here I guess. Dave do you have any idea how much the rebuild kit cost for this? Also do you need to get the entire rebuild kit or just the seals is that a thing?

I'm looking forward to seeing the video.

There is only one kit for that pump, it's part number 56227, which should include all the parts you need for a complete reseal. You'll need to confirm with the local distributor, but it's around $500.

Dave
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top