Hermie after Hermie after Hermie

Switcher56 · Jun 2, 2018

EvergreenState said:
Same soil, same nutrients, same water, same problems.
I've always thought that if a tiny bit of light completely throws a plant off, then it's bad genetics. You maybe able to solve a hermie problem by making sure that your grow space is completely dark but my opinion is you are treating the symptoms and not the ailment. The ailment is weak genetics. As someone else mentioned, the moon, many times, puts out a tremendous amount of light.
You should be able to purchase Reverse osmosis treated drinking water at any supermarket if you can't install an RO unit in your home; one person said that it differs from distilled water in that it does not remove minerals which is not true, it removes 99% of all minerals. You could purchase distilled water also. As someone else also stated, you don't know what is in your .45ec water!
Again also, as someone else stated, look up the Hempy bucket thread here on ICmag. It uses perlite and vermiculite. Very easy and very effective and you don't have all of the issues you get with soil. Use the RO or distilled water, use a nutrient program that corrects ph for you, I use this https://www.advancednutrients.com/products/base-nutrients/, the Grow, Micro and Bloom trio. Cheap, easy, effective and you don't have to worry about ph.
If, after doing all of that you still have problems, it's genetics.

That would be me

I spent 32.5 yrs in the Navy, mind you we were distilling sea water not tap water. From our classes, distillation is purer than RO. RO leaves some trace elements behind which is a good thing. That being said things might have changed since. OTOH I had planned to use distilled water and was told not to because of what I mentioned here, from the local hydro shop. That being said I am from a camp where vendors sell stuff and buyers buy stuff. So I am always a little doubtful of some of the advice I receive from "vendors".

MrBungle · Jun 2, 2018

There isn't a single cannabis plant in this world that wouldn't put out nanners if it had a choice.... The whole purpose in life for the plant is to seed... if a plant does not detect a male's presence, and can self pollinate because of outside forces at play, it will.. doesn't matter of the genetics.... now there are some plants genetically prone to hermaphrodite due to bad breeding practices or open pollination, but as was said before those are few and far between.. unless you are using bag seed of course, but the OP is using seeds from reputable companies....

So lets stop filling this guys head up with stuff that does not apply to this situation....

I've seen some crazy shit, making my own custom nutes, enough to know that poor nutrients, and bad pH DO NOT cause plants to Hermie....

And I am talking about the same strains too... ones that hermied as a result of light leaks, were tortured from bad nutes and pH and never hermied out...

beta · Jun 2, 2018

MrBungle said:
There isn't a single cannabis plant in this world that wouldn't put out nanners if it had a choice.... The whole purpose in life for the plant is to seed... if a plant does not detect a male's presence, and can self pollinate because of outside forces at play, it will.. doesn't matter of the genetics.... now there are some plants genetically prone to hermaphrodite due to bad breeding practices or open pollination, but as was said before those are few and far between.. unless you are using bag seed of course, but the OP is using seeds from reputable companies....

So lets stop filling this guys head up with stuff that does not apply to this situation....

I've seen some crazy shit, making my own custom nutes, enough to know that poor nutrients, and bad pH DO NOT cause plants to Hermie....

And I am talking about the same strains too... ones that hermied as a result of light leaks, were tortured from bad nutes and pH and never hermied out...

Different cultivars have different triggers. pH issues and too strong of a nutrient solution can DEFINITELY cause certain cultivars to throw male flowers.

That said, I don't think that's the problem here necessarily. We still need to know all of the info and trouble shoot any potential causes.

Switcher56 · Jun 2, 2018

EvergreenState said:
*SNIP
Again also, as someone else stated, look up the Hempy bucket thread here on ICmag. It uses perlite and vermiculite. Very easy and very effective and you don't have all of the issues you get with soil.

...from the Bonsai world, you can grow plants in chards of glass, providing you feed and water them correctly.

Personally I did a comparison once between growing in strait chicken grit, strait turface and my regular soil mix. https://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/search/label/Warren%20Hill%20Soil%20Experiment.

This is also an interesting topic https://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/search/label/Understanding soil mechanics

Use the RO or distilled water, use a nutrient program that corrects ph for you, I use this https://www.advancednutrients.com/products/base-nutrients/, the Grow, Micro and Bloom trio. Cheap, easy, effective and you don't have to worry about ph.
If, after doing all of that you still have problems, it's genetics.

... going back to what I said previously, I was led to believe that following the General Organics "Go Box's" recipe and using RO H2O I wouldn't have to worry about it. Sorry BS! From here I was told by a few that the recommended dosage is too hot, feed at 1/2 strength. I am learning but, like with many subjects, there is a lot of chaff and wheat out there.

I support your finding that if properly fed, no light leak and proper soil PH levels (inorganic is as inorganic as it gets. If he still has problems, I think the root cause as suggested might in fact be poor genetics.

Soil mechanics is an interesting read. Understanding the "saturation zone" allows us how to manipulate the height of the saturation zone to our benefits.

From John Naka...
A dead tree is the tuition for a Bonsai Education. These words can also apply to us.

GoatCheese · Jun 2, 2018

MrBungle said:
There isn't a single cannabis plant in this world that wouldn't put out nanners if it had a choice.... The whole purpose in life for the plant is to seed... if a plant does not detect a male's presence, and can self pollinate because of outside forces at play, it will.. doesn't matter of the genetics.

Seeds being from "reputable companies" doesn't mean the females wouldn't produce nanners or pollen sacks. If the genetics had intersex traits in them, it does not matter which company the seeds came from.
Some plants will die on their own with out putting out nanners/pollen sacks if bloomed long enough. Ask Sam Skunkman, he has talked about this. He has stated this is pretty much the only way to see if the plant has proper intersex trait in it; to bloom it long enough for it to die on it's own and see if it has traits of the opposite sex.

MrBungle said:
I've seen some crazy shit, making my own custom nutes, enough to know that poor nutrients, and bad pH DO NOT cause plants to Hermie....

And I am talking about the same strains too... ones that hermied as a result of light leaks, were tortured from bad nutes and pH and never hermied out...

How many different strains and plants you tested your poor nutes and bad pH-hypothesis on to make such claim that they wouldn't make plants flip? "Some plants" really isn't enough to make such an absolutist claim as you have made; implying that bad pH isn't enough to cause plants to flip in any case, basically.

Also we talked about OVER FERTILIZATION, not "poor" nutrients. There's a difference.

Some plants are sexually more stable than other, and will take more abuse than others, what part of that you dont understand? But because you have made custom nutes that makes you know better, ay.
You just don't wanna get it do you. It's the AMMOUNT OF STRESS that will make plants flip if they are prone to that, not necessarily the TYPE of stress. = Light leaks can be more stressful in general than slightly off pH.

I think it's you who's causing confusion on the topic.

moose eater · Jun 2, 2018

I can attest to having witnessed excess secondary and micro-nutes (i.e. excess kelp, etc.) leading to stress that produces male pods, but that is not hermaphrodite.

DrDee · Jun 2, 2018

Psychopro,
You said you are using some fem seeds? I know this is a controversial viewpoint...but to make female seeds involves forcing a single plant to pollinate itself. As you grow that out, then you have a hermie prone plant as parent.

So along with the other changes you are making...why not go with normal rather then femmed genetics.
JD

Switcher56 · Jun 2, 2018

DrDee said:
*SNIP
I know this is a controversial viewpoint...but to make female seeds involves forcing a single plant to pollinate itself. As you grow that out, then you have a hermie prone plant as parent.

JD

JD, Do you mind expanding on that? Does/will it occur with all known methods:

Colloidal Silver;
Silver Thiosulphate Solution; and
Rodelization

My understanding the last method is the least desirable, and will cause hermaphrodite traits.
OTOH With the colloidal silver method, you use a spray bottle to apply this mixture to your female marijuana plants, but you have to do it when the plants are flowering. Pollen Sacs will be formed. The pollen has female genetics, allowing the marijuana seeds to produce female plants.
Have seen very little (to date) on the 2nd method.
This stuff is promulgated everywhere. A controversial subject indeed! However, I am here to learn so plse expand my horizons

DrDee · Jun 2, 2018

Switcher56 said:
JD, Do you mind expanding on that? Does/will it occur with all known methods:

Colloidal Silver;

Silver Thiosulphate Solution; and

Rodelization

My understanding the last method is the least desirable, and will cause hermaphrodite traits.
OTOH With the colloidal silver method, you use a spray bottle to apply this mixture to your female marijuana plants, but you have to do it when the plants are flowering. Pollen Sacs will be formed. The pollen has female genetics, allowing the marijuana seeds to produce female plants.
Have seen very little (to date) on the 2nd method.
This stuff is promulgated everywhere. A controversial subject indeed! However, I am here to learn so plse expand my horizons

Hi Switcher...
First, thank you for phrasing your question in a polite manner. I actually expected to be jeered at. I'm an old guy who is participating in these discussions to renew my knowledge and understanding for an anticipated grow starting this fall. Ganja growing is a rapidly evolving enterprise.

Back when fem seeds first came out, you never really knew what technique was used and there were herm prone seeds being distributed.

It's my understanding (which is far from complete) that most legit fem seed suppliers are using the colloidal silver technique...and that that technique produces pretty reliable fem seeds. But there's no guarantee, so I still believe it's a risk. I admit that I carry some prejudice from the "old days".

And since psycho is having chronic herm issues, it seems prudent to eliminate femmed genetics as a possible source.

I have experienced the heartbreak of having a large grow self-seed and thus be ruined (except for the ganja butter I made with it) so I choose to err on the safe side. No femmed genetics for me. I'm good at planning ahead and growing from regular seeds is a skill I developed 40 years ago. Plus I like to mess with genetics a bit. I have some seeds I made from my last grow. a cross between a really strong sativa leaning White Widow crossed with a Black Pearl male (from a Canadian seed supplier). I expect great things.

There was a discussion on true hermaphrodite vs a female plant that pops the occasional nanner. Not sure I know the difference. What comes to mind is Thai genetics. I'm talking the old school "Thai stick". That shit always had seeds in it and if you grow out the seeds perfectly...it will still go herm and produce seeds...So is Thai hermaphroditic?

So that about covers my position, I doubt that I expanded your horizons. :tiphat:

JD

EvergreenState · Jun 2, 2018

Switcher56 said:
...from the Bonsai world, you can grow plants in chards of glass, providing you feed and water them correctly.

Personally I did a comparison once between growing in strait chicken grit, strait turface and my regular soil mix. https://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/search/label/Warren%20Hill%20Soil%20Experiment.

This is also an interesting topic https://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/search/label/Understanding soil mechanics

... going back to what I said previously, I was led to believe that following the General Organics "Go Box's" recipe and using RO H2O I wouldn't have to worry about it. Sorry BS! From here I was told by a few that the recommended dosage is too hot, feed at 1/2 strength. I am learning but, like with many subjects, there is a lot of chaff and wheat out there.

I support your finding that if properly fed, no light leak and proper soil PH levels (inorganic is as inorganic as it gets. If he still has problems, I think the root cause as suggested might in fact be poor genetics.

Soil mechanics is an interesting read. Understanding the "saturation zone" allows us how to manipulate the height of the saturation zone to our benefits.

From John Naka...
A dead tree is the tuition for a Bonsai Education. These words can also apply to us.

Did you use the GH nutes and RO water in soil or more of a hydro medium? If you read Hempy's thread, where he recommends you follow the nute bottle recomnendations for his hydro type grow, in only a 2 gallon bucket by the way, you'll see he was growing plants that yielded nearly one pound of dried buds each for his big sativas.
I'm following the directions on my nute bottles with distilled water, in a mostly perlite medium and the plants are growing and flowering beautifully; no problems what so ever and no checking the ph. I've done the same with Dyna Gro nutes in a totally rock wool medium; no problems at all. Don't know about the GH nutrients, never used them. Every grow is different, mediums are different, nutients are different.
I'd start with bottle recommendations and see how your plants react. Dyna Gro nutes, which I frequently use, have different nute schedules, which you can find on their website, depending on the type of grow you are doing. One for soil( which is about 1/4 to 1/3 the amounts they recommend for other grow styles), one for deep water culture ( recirculating) and one for drain to waste. I think General Hydroponics also have different feeding schedules based on type of grow.
For the other gentleman, yes modern RO systems remove damn near all, 99.9% of the minerals.
Here is a read I think you will enjoy concerning RO water.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uswatersystems.com/blog/2017/07/6182/amp/

Switcher56 · Jun 2, 2018

EvergreenState said:
*SNIP For the other gentleman, yes modern RO systems remove damn near all, 99.9% of the minerals.
Here is a read I think you will enjoy concerning RO water.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uswatersystems.com/blog/2017/07/6182/amp/

I have been reading on the subject of late. It seems they have come a long way since

Switcher56 · Jun 2, 2018

DrDee said:
Hi Switcher...
First, thank you for phrasing your question in a polite manner. I actually expected to be jeered at. I'm an old guy who is participating in these discussions to renew my knowledge and understanding for an anticipated grow starting this fall. Ganja growing is a rapidly evolving enterprise.

U R welcome! (one old fart to another)
I came here to expand my knowledge, not have sunshine blown up my butt, been around a couple of rodeos :woohoo:

Back when fem seeds first came out, you never really knew what technique was used and there were herm prone seeds being distributed.

Yup! Hence the reticence of folks using them.

It's my understanding (which is far from complete) that most legit fem seed suppliers are using the colloidal silver technique...and that that technique produces pretty reliable fem seeds. But there's no guarantee, so I still believe it's a risk. I admit that I carry some prejudice from the "old days".

...can't teach and old dog new tricks

Hence, why I asked you to expand (CS being pretty much the norm in industry). When I heard more than one reputable dude, saying "stay away" from Rodelization. I took heed to their advice. Got your msg BTW. Being retired provides me with a great research venue. Being old school myself, I fetch a shit ton of books and look for corroboration. I don't limit my research to the 1st pages. Corroboration occurs deeper

And since psycho is having chronic herm issues, it seems prudent to eliminate femmed genetics as a possible source.

Exactly! I know I am going to bed smarter tonight

I have experienced the heartbreak of having a large grow self-seed and thus be ruined (except for the ganja butter I made with it) so I choose to err on the safe side. No femmed genetics for me. I'm good at planning ahead and growing from regular seeds is a skill I developed 40 years ago. Plus I like to mess with genetics a bit. I have some seeds I made from my last grow. a cross between a really strong sativa leaning White Widow crossed with a Black Pearl male (from a Canadian seed supplier). I expect great things.

I can't fathom the pain. Loosing a couple of plants is bad enough, multiples Uggg!

There was a discussion on true hermaphrodite vs a female plant that pops the occasional nanner. Not sure I know the difference. What comes to mind is Thai genetics. I'm talking the old school "Thai stick". That shit always had seeds in it and if you grow out the seeds perfectly...it will still go herm and produce seeds...So is Thai hermaphroditic?

So that about covers my position, I doubt that I expanded your horizons.
JD

Having a conversation with educated individual is refreshing these days amidst all the moral decay we see around the world!

psychopro · Jun 3, 2018

EvergreenState said:
Same soil, same nutrients, same water, same problems.
....
If, after doing all of that you still have problems, it's genetics.

I really think it was the light leaks which got me this time because my plants looked almost beatiful green with only some lower leaves showing brown spots but this could come from the previous thrips attack i had in veg. stage.

Where i live in the EU specially in my country the water has a reputation of being as good as bottled water from the supermarket. So i really dont think it's my water which fucks my grow up.
I will check the exact ph and will ph down my feeding solution to 6.5 and my normal water to 6.3. This should clear all problems feeding problems.
My tap water EC with 0.4 at this point is pretty normal i think.
I am at a point with 4 runs and only hermies where i need to stop before investing more. I invested so much for processing my seeded crop to hash and rosin.

But that would maybe my next investment be. A RO system.

DrDee said:
Psychopro,
You said you are using some fem seeds? I know this is a controversial viewpoint...but to make female seeds involves forcing a single plant to pollinate itself. As you grow that out, then you have a hermie prone plant as parent.

So along with the other changes you are making...why not go with normal rather then femmed genetics.
JD

Thats why i got my hands on some Stardawg Guava Wookie from Bodhi.

This time i will try my luck with only Regular Seeds.
Also this time i will check ph completly and check for every fucking tiny little light leak i can find.
I also duct taped my passive intakes with carbon filter to block incoming light.

I really think it was the light leaks which got me this time because my plants looked almost beatiful green with only some lower leaves showing brown spots but this could come from the previous thrips attack i had in veg. stage.

MrBungle · Jun 3, 2018

I think I figured out the confusion for myself... I still believe the cause of the problem in this thread is light leaks....

The plants are likely not hermie.. they are female plants that threw out a few nanners, cause of light stress during the dark cycle... Sure there may be other factors that cause a plant to throw nanners, but the most common/easiest to prove is light leaks

A true hermaphrodite plant that is completely covered in flowers and balls comes from genetics

DrDee · Jun 3, 2018

Psychopro,
Getting rid of the light leaks is not always easy...but I agree it's probably Occam's razor at work...the simplest most likely answer is probably right. Hope the new Bodhi genetics is a good one for you. Still not use to the silly strain names. Girl Scout cookies and such. I remember Colombian and Panama Red. Strong masculine and descriptive names! lol
Later,
JD

Cantharellus · Jun 3, 2018

10 pages of advice and nobody has even seen the hermie. Psychpro you are a new grower correct ? Are you 100 percent sure what you are looking at are male flowers ? Why not throw up a picture so it can be confirmed by someone with some experience ?

EvergreenState · Jun 3, 2018

psychopro said:
I really think it was the light leaks which got me this time because my plants looked almost beatiful green with only some lower leaves showing brown spots but this could come from the previous thrips attack i had in veg. stage.

Where i live in the EU specially in my country the water has a reputation of being as good as bottled water from the supermarket. So i really dont think it's my water which fucks my grow up.
I will check the exact ph and will ph down my feeding solution to 6.5 and my normal water to 6.3. This should clear all problems feeding problems.
My tap water EC with 0.4 at this point is pretty normal i think.
I am at a point with 4 runs and only hermies where i need to stop before investing more. I invested so much for processing my seeded crop to hash and rosin.

But that would maybe my next investment be. A RO system.

Thats why i got my hands on some Stardawg Guava Wookie from Bodhi.
This time i will try my luck with only Regular Seeds.
Also this time i will check ph completly and check for every fucking tiny little light leak i can find.
I also duct taped my passive intakes with carbon filter to block incoming light.

I really think it was the light leaks which got me this time because my plants looked almost beatiful green with only some lower leaves showing brown spots but this could come from the previous thrips attack i had in veg. stage.

As several people have told you but you seem to always want to brush it off, water with an EC of .4 is high and can cause many problems; especially because you don't know what is in it. Oh well, I tried. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

BirdManFlyHigh · Jun 3, 2018

Light leaks

Lock out for not ph

Possible root aphids

Calcium in tap disturbing the balance with ppm that high depending on plant size there is not much room to add nutrients.

Fix leaks job 1.

2 you will never get healthy plants feeding with that water at 443 TDS go to or change the medium

3. Consider mixing soil, %33 cheap castings, %33 promix bx %33 perlite. Top dress with garden tone.
This will give your medium 1-1-1 ratio. No lime you got plenty of ca in your tap. If you're not changing the water then you need to change the medium. Nute lock from what your doing will cause hermies.

Last but not least treat for ra they look like they are there.

psychopro · Jun 3, 2018

BirdManFlyHigh said:
Light leaks

Lock out for not ph

Possible root aphids

Calcium in tap disturbing the balance with ppm that high depending on plant size there is not much room to add nutrients.

Fix leaks job 1.

2 you will never get healthy plants feeding with that water at 443 TDS go to or change the medium

3. Consider mixing soil, %33 cheap castings, %33 promix bx %33 perlite. Top dress with garden tone.
This will give your medium 1-1-1 ratio. No lime you got plenty of ca in your tap. If you're not changing the water then you need to change the medium. Nute lock from what your doing will cause hermies.

Last but not least treat for ra they look like they are there.

It's not 443 TDS, it's 443 microsiemens which means an EC of 0.4 not 0.8.
After looking throw several forums in my country it seems that a tap water EC of 0.4 is normal for us and is causing other growers no problem.

EvergreenState said:
As several people have told you but you seem to always want to brush it off, water with an EC of .4 is high and can cause many problems; especially because you don't know what is in it. Oh well, I tried. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Of course i dont know exact what is in there but i check the Analysis of our tap water from our provider.
Is that a high calcium value?

psychopro · Jun 3, 2018

EvergreenState said:
As several people have told you but you seem to always want to brush it off, water with an EC of .4 is high and can cause many problems; especially because you don't know what is in it. Oh well, I tried. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

In a different forum a guy said that he adds to his RO water 70ppm Calcium which means 70mg/l.
This is exacly what my water provider says is my concentration in the tap water. Maybe i understood wrong.

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