600 watt ballast only pulling 420 watts?

PaulieWaulie · May 11, 2017

Jokes aside on the actual draw, what does this mean?

Bought it as a 600. used it less than a year in total, but bought it 10 years ago now. checked the killawatt and it said 430 watts. Did I get ripped off or do ballasts degrade like this ?

PaulieWaulie · May 11, 2017

Its a magnetic ballast. using a 600 watt bulb. Had it on a 25 foot extension cord but that shouldn't have an effect on the actual wattage draw. Its a 16 Gauge cord so can handle up to 1000 watts easy.

My 1000 Watt HPS ballast bought at the same time from the same company is pulling 950. But that is close enough that it kind of makes sense, but Im essentially getting a 400 watt instead of a 600 here!

Carraxe · May 11, 2017

Check your power factor. Does your metering tool consider this?

OldPhart · May 11, 2017

Sounds like they might need new capacitors in them. As capacitors age, they tend to loose some of their value, which will lower the output of the ballast. I would just change the capacitors out, on general principle, since they are 10 years old.... should be less than 10 bucks, and about 10 minutes to install them.

BTW, A failing bulb can also cause power to go down, but that is a larger loss than I would expect out of a bulb. speaking of PF, if it is below 90%, this would also indicate either a failing cap or bulb. You would really like to see the PF closer to .96 Everyone should have a Kill-a-Watt meter laying around, they can tell you a lot about what is going on with your lights, especially if you have a base line to compare against.

PaulieWaulie · May 12, 2017

Yeah I am using a kill a watt meter, thats what showed it running at 420 watts range. Its only been used for less than a year over the 10 years (same with the bulb), so really not a lot of use to have me thinking it would need repairs. Il have to look into the power factor thing and do some research.

Jhhnn · May 13, 2017

Carraxe said:
Check your power factor. Does your metering tool consider this?

Power factor can be read directly on a kill a watt meter. It should be .9 or better.

The math actually works to other way, I think. low PF devices consume more apparent power-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

It's probably a 400w ballast & will work better with a 400w lamp if it is. Some mag ballasts have a mfg label directly on the transformer.

PaulieWaulie · Jun 3, 2017

Jhhnn said:
Power factor can be read directly on a kill a watt meter. It should be .9 or better.

The math actually works to other way, I think. low PF devices consume more apparent power-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

It's probably a 400w ballast & will work better with a 400w lamp if it is. Some mag ballasts have a mfg label directly on the transformer.

Thanks for the link, you over estimate my ability to comprehend everything on that page

OldPhart said:
Sounds like they might need new capacitors in them. As capacitors age, they tend to loose some of their value, which will lower the output of the ballast. I would just change the capacitors out, on general principle, since they are 10 years old.... should be less than 10 bucks, and about 10 minutes to install them.

BTW, A failing bulb can also cause power to go down, but that is a larger loss than I would expect out of a bulb. speaking of PF, if it is below 90%, this would also indicate either a failing cap or bulb. You would really like to see the PF closer to .96 Everyone should have a Kill-a-Watt meter laying around, they can tell you a lot about what is going on with your lights, especially if you have a base line to compare against.

I see now the button for the PF on the killawatt, will test it next time I can plug it in on it.

I don't think the bulb or ballast should be failing due to regular wear and tear as they have both seen less than 1 year of use. I will check the PF next and then go from there.

Heres some Pics, thanks for the input guys, sure would be nice to have a 600 watt, instead of a 400 !

PaulieWaulie · Sep 23, 2017

Alright,

I plugged it into the kill a watt and let it run for 30 mins.

This power factor you guys speak of is at .90

The bulb and ballast is labeled as 600W. Next step anyone?

It obviously doesn't have warranty as I purchased it 10 years ago. I also don't think there is anything that needs to be replaced from wear and tear, because its ran for less than 1 year total. Would a different bulb make a difference? I could buy a 600W and 400W bulb and see what it does. Finally, if I am willing to accept the output of this ballast as 400, it would make sense to get a 400W bulb correct? They say efficiency and spectrum aren't as good if you have a 600 running at 400, so I might as well get a 400 to get max performance, and cheaper price as well.

Thanks for helping me out guys.

PaulieWaulie · Sep 23, 2017

Jhhnn · Sep 23, 2017

I strongly suspect that your ballast was mis-labeled as 600w. Unplug it, wait several minutes & open it up, look for additional labels & information directly on the transformer & the capacitor. Lighting capacitors have very high resistance discharge resistors built in but you want to short the terminals with a screwdriver blade to be certain & safe before you touch anything. A 400w capacitor should be labeled as 55UF while a 600w capacitor will be 64UF. Transformers often have their own label embedded in the varnish although it may be on the bottom where you'll need to dismount it to see the label.

https://www.josephfazzio.com/philips-advance-71a8493-auto-transformer-ballast-400w-71a8493-ain-204

http://capacitorking.com/aerovox-lighting-capacitors-high-pressure-sodium.html

The discharge resistor is visible on some capacitors but they're often internal & out of sight.

Absolutely definitive tests can be made using a volt meter but technique is beyond the scope of what I'm comfortable trying to describe here.

PaulieWaulie · Sep 23, 2017

Jhhnn said:
I strongly suspect that your ballast was mis-labeled as 600w. Unplug it, wait several minutes & open it up, look for additional labels & information directly on the transformer & the capacitor. Lighting capacitors have very high resistance discharge resistors built in but you want to short the terminals with a screwdriver blade to be certain & safe before you touch anything. A 400w capacitor should be labeled as 55UF while a 600w capacitor will be 64UF. Transformers often have their own label embedded in the varnish although it may be on the bottom where you'll need to dismount it to see the label.

https://www.josephfazzio.com/philips-advance-71a8493-auto-transformer-ballast-400w-71a8493-ain-204

https://capacitorking.com/aerovox-lighting-capacitors-high-pressure-sodium.html

The discharge resistor is visible on some capacitors but they're often internal & out of sight.

Absolutely definitive tests can be made using a volt meter but technique is beyond the scope of what I'm comfortable trying to describe here.

Thanks Jhnnnn

I may open it up to take a peak to see if I can see any Labels. Haven't been using it since testing it so all should be safe. If it indeed is a 400W ballast that is mislabeled. would it be possible for it to draw 423 Watts? Because the kill a watt once gave me that reading. As well I do remember pulling in over 10 zips on my first ever grow. I don't think thats really possible for a newbie on a 400W? Theres recent times Im happy with 10 Zips on 1K now! As long as this couldnt be a malfunctioning 600W bulb doing this, im just gonna accept that its a 400 and buy a 400 Watt bulb. Really wish I had a killawatt back then as I got ripped off pretty hard if it is miss labeled.

moose eater · Sep 23, 2017

I'd agree with Jhhnn's assessment. Ballast was improperly labeled/loaded at the factory.

And your extension cord, if anything, should have it pulling slightly more wattage, not less, if that is a factor in a 25' cord.

BTW, regardless of manufacturers' claims or UL labels, etc., I never use anything lighter than a 14/3 for any serious draw. Especially over a distance/extension. But that's not the issue with your ballast at this time.

Jhhnn · Sep 24, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
Thanks Jhnnnn

I may open it up to take a peak to see if I can see any Labels. Haven't been using it since testing it so all should be safe. If it indeed is a 400W ballast that is mislabeled. would it be possible for it to draw 423 Watts? Because the kill a watt once gave me that reading. As well I do remember pulling in over 10 zips on my first ever grow. I don't think thats really possible for a newbie on a 400W? Theres recent times Im happy with 10 Zips on 1K now! As long as this couldnt be a malfunctioning 600W bulb doing this, im just gonna accept that its a 400 and buy a 400 Watt bulb. Really wish I had a killawatt back then as I got ripped off pretty hard if it is miss labeled.

The lamp dissipates 400w of electricity as light, much of it in the infrared with HPS. No ballast is 100% efficient & it dissipates that inefficiency as heat so the actual current draw at the receptacle should be higher than 400w with a correct lamp.

The two 1000w mag ballasts I still own both pull ~1140w at the wall for 14% inefficiency. I never used more than one at a time- the other was a spare. I had a helluva time dissipating the heat in my situation so I went with twin 315 Philips CDM systems & couldn't be more pleased. They seem to grow just as well as my previous 1000w with much less power & heat. They're state of the art in HID lighting.

PaulieWaulie · Sep 25, 2017

Jhhnn said:
The lamp dissipates 400w of electricity as light, much of it in the infrared with HPS. No ballast is 100% efficient & it dissipates that inefficiency as heat so the actual current draw at the receptacle should be higher than 400w with a correct lamp.

The two 1000w mag ballasts I still own both pull ~1140w at the wall for 14% inefficiency. I never used more than one at a time- the other was a spare. I had a helluva time dissipating the heat in my situation so I went with twin 315 Philips CDM systems & couldn't be more pleased. They seem to grow just as well as my previous 1000w with much less power & heat. They're state of the art in HID lighting.

Good info there. I bought all my gear less then a year ago when I was just getting back into it and I got cheap digital ballasts, lamps, and reflectors.

But I really wish I was using LEDS with barely no heat output. nice even light distribution and not having to worry about trying to get the plants as close as possible to the bulb without burning the tops or making my footprint too small. For now I will continue in dinosaur mode and next time I start up at the next space or whatever I will drop a few g's on LEDs. I can definitely tell how much Watts Im wasting with a REG HPS. Its hard to watch! Plus Im not even getting close to .7G/W of market grade bud. Seems that most newbs even hit .9 or something with an LED on there first few grows. Meanwhile Ive been at it over a year and definitely not doing anything major wrong.

Jhhnn · Sep 25, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
Good info there. I bought all my gear less then a year ago when I was just getting back into it and I got cheap digital ballasts, lamps, and reflectors.

But I really wish I was using LEDS with barely no heat output. nice even light distribution and not having to worry about trying to get the plants as close as possible to the bulb without burning the tops or making my footprint too small. For now I will continue in dinosaur mode and next time I start up at the next space or whatever I will drop a few g's on LEDs. I can definitely tell how much Watts Im wasting with a REG HPS. Its hard to watch! Plus Im not even getting close to .7G/W of market grade bud. Seems that most newbs even hit .9 or something with an LED on there first few grows. Meanwhile Ive been at it over a year and definitely not doing anything major wrong.

Until the price of quality LED's comes down further you'll be growing for a long time before you catch up to the upfront price differential vs 315 CDM tech.

PaulieWaulie · Sep 27, 2017

The plot thickens again. I was looking at the ballast from the side where the heat grill was and I saw a sticker and was able to make out some print. It says 600W guys.. LOL

So yes it is a 600W, unless the inside is also miss labeled. I guess theres not much that I can ask from you guys at this point. It is clearly not working as it should, to no fault of my own, so I need to take it in to get repaired, or get an opinion. What you guys suggest? An Appliance repair shop? Hydro Shop? Electrical repair?

OldPhart · Sep 27, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
The plot thickens again. I was looking at the ballast from the side where the heat grill was and I saw a sticker and was able to make out some print. It says 600W guys.. LOL

So yes it is a 600W, unless the inside is also miss labeled. I guess theres not much that I can ask from you guys at this point. It is clearly not working as it should, to no fault of my own, so I need to take it in to get repaired, or get an opinion. What you guys suggest? An Appliance repair shop? Hydro Shop? Electrical repair?

Just a stupid idea, you have one that is working correctly, Right? I would pop the top on both and compare what you see. If the core is multitap, I wonder if they may have gotten it wired for 208v or something??? But I would suspect that the PF would be much worse if that were the case.

Gry · Sep 27, 2017

A ballast repair kit, which is a new ballast minus the case would be about 50 bucks.
I keep a couple 400 and 600 Watt kits on hand. Can find them cheap on craigslist at times.
I was able to get some 600 Watt units for 10 bucks each. Takes 10 minutes to swap the guts out.
By the time you are done you will be comfortable swapping out capacitors, which is really the only maintenance one need do besides replacing bulbs.

I am sure no wiz with this stuff, and have been blessed many times with real solid advice from others here who work with this kind thing on a professional basis.

purpleplayer007 · Oct 20, 2017

If you have a grow shop close maybe take it in and have them test it..then see what they
Say. Act like your going buy something so they don't bitch if you didn't get the light from them

moose eater · Oct 20, 2017

Paulie, What ever the tag on the outside says, the inside may be the issue, regardless of what the outside says. It may still have the wrong guts in it. I think that was Jhhnn's point to start with; the internal components may not have been properly loaded, as in the factory may have used an incorrect capacitor, etc.

Any results from your investigation yet?

600 watt ballast only pulling 420 watts?

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