HYDROPONIC OR ORGANIC...What's the difference?

agent 420 · Oct 18, 2007

Any results yet Marmarkus? I'm interested to see whatcha got so far.
I'm currently constructing a DWC bubbler, applying the same method of organic hydro TK mentioned above.
Sounds like your a bit ahead of me.
Anything I should watch out for you've experienced so far?
Good to see someone stepping up and taking the plunge.

kidkannabis · Nov 15, 2007

hydro organic sounds great.is it possible to use a nute mix like molasses, superthrive,and some homemade fishwater (fish poo) in a micro hydro grow?? will it be effective? any feedback will be great

Rattrap · Nov 17, 2007

biggest prob i found when i tried organic hydro was the nasty PH swings. I could never get the Ph to stay in the range i wanted. Add the corresponding ph adjusters to get PH right & in an hr it was back out to where it was before. not good for the plants having a ph swing like that.

Marick23 · Jan 30, 2009

To Organic or Not.

To Organic or Not.

Was just curious as I will be starting my first grow in the near future. Is has there been any recent improvements to either chem nutes or organic nutes? Is it still a matter of opinion?

Pactivist · Feb 4, 2009

I know that this link is to a really long post, but it contains a lot of information and I felt that what it was saying really is pertinent to this thread. I did not want to hijack this thread with my long ass post so here is the link
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106784
also has alot of info about ph in organic systems
please check it out
peAce,
pacT

olddirtybastard · Mar 4, 2009

i use floranova, which seems to be more organic than chemical. i never change my res, and never have ph problems, given i do have a 100gallon res.

its probably the easiest nutrient ive worked with so far. no mixing, and micronutrients included.

skunky 59 · Mar 16, 2009

hi
i do agree with you about flora nova : i use it in soil and in hydro
and i change the tank weekly in hydro ,i never had problems with this floranova baut i m not sure it is organic (in france it s not sold as organic nutrient ! )
goog vibes
skunky

Leviathan · Oct 21, 2009

organic plain n simple is a grow without chemicals.

if u grow in soil u just water and let the micro herd do the work from what in the dirt,
if u hydro grow u feed teas daily,weekly,,etc.

that being said most who grow ''organic'' really dont a hundred percent..

do i care...mm a little. any erb flushed extremly well has nothing of salts left in it, and some would say a ph balanced flush in a hyro medium grown via chemicals is just as clean as a organic grow with a half as flush-

grapeman · Nov 21, 2009

I

don't understand what the big deal is with Organic in the first place. I mean on a large scale for farming application etc I get it. It's better for the environment and it's the way of the future. But we're all just trying to grow dank nugz here right? If you want to grow hydro, then use inorganic nutes and just keep an eye on things. There is no need to go out of your way to make your grow Organic just because it's suddenly trendy is there?

So true HydroBro - The fallacy perpetuated is that "organic" is better for you and the environment. Not true. I may not be a large farmer, depends on your definition of large. I have grown over 2,000 acres of crops in a year. Anyway, organic is not safer nor better. Neem oil is just as a potent a killer as other pesticides. Spreading manure that is not fully composted was the cause of deaths several years ago on "organic spinach".

On the other hand, buying NPK and applying grams/pounds/acre of these materials is easy and successful. I do find the use of teas and/or liquid manures to be good for the soil and helpful in buffering the soil and helping plants use the nutrients.

Organic Hydro? I dunno. From other threads I have followed, there are absolute claims of success against brown algae or slime (which attack the roots in hydro) by adding EWC teas. I'll have to try that the next time I break out the buckets. For now it's soil, with measurable nutes augmented by teas.

magiccannabus · Nov 21, 2009

Lucas said:
I remain amazed at the mythology that somehow organics can be applied safely, without regard to dosage and concentration, and pH.

While there are some ideals to meet, I have found organics much more tolerant. In fact, my grow is healthy and growing well without any serious tracking of food dosages, pH, or even how often I water. I just eyeball it, and it's doing great. There are some organic nutrient sources that are more volatile than others though from a plant health perspective. Blood meal comes to mind.... Still, it's not entirely myth.

HappyDog · Dec 12, 2009

Great thread fellas, I used to do a constant drip in buckets when i had more time to monitor the water. The only way i could keep the ph from drifting was to use a larger reservoir and try to balance my "top off" batch a few days early.
I eventually went back to pro-mix to fit my work schedule.

Also an air stone in the bottom of each bucket seems to keep it a little fresher.

Organic nft isn't impossible but it will be a labor of love! Best of luck to all who try, congratulations to all who succeed!

skunky 59 · Dec 12, 2009

+1 happy dog a totally agree with you !!
oyoo

Mr. Fly · Jan 23, 2010

And Pura Vida fertilizers????Is organic for hydro....

Akira_the_pimp · Jan 27, 2010

great post guys, organic is definitely a superior smoke for your lungs and over all health. I guess for those that don't care about your body chemical is up fellas! and continue eating your gmo foods yum yum lol

pray4pistils · Apr 7, 2010

I dunno about y'all, but I seriously don't know why this post is a sticky. It's chock full of misinformation and stale technical advice. Even the thread's title is nonsensical: "HYDROPONIC OR ORGANIC...What's the difference?"

Hydroponics is a growing method that relies on nutrients dissolved in solution. Organics is... well, it's mostly a marketing term. Even conventional motor oil is technically "organic". It's supposed to mean natural (in the safe and wholesome context) and sustainable. My point here, though, is that hydroponics and organic growing are not on opposite ends of the same continuum. Hydroponics can be done organically just as it can be done synthetically.

These distinctions makes a LOT more sense:
Hydroponics vs. Soil
Synthetic vs. Organic

standard organic nutrients will interact with other organisms in the water and begin to decompose. This can quickly make your reservoir water into a rotting, toxic soup.

Sure, that's true if all you do is pour organics into a rez and do nothing else. But, that's as ridiculous as feeding table salt. :laughing:

The concentrated, "clean" synthesized chemicals do not interact with organisms in the water environment, and therefore the reservoir water stays "clean," more or less.

B.S.

Lots of bacteria are happy to digest synthetic compounds. Also, if the water stayed clean by itself, there'd be no need for sterilization in pure synthetic grows. This advice is borderline irresponsible -not to mention ignorant.

I recommend that you grow your plants in my standard medium formula: 1/3 perlite, 1/3 vermiculite and 1/3 of organic potting soil, or any loose 100% organic soil mixture, in the upper section

Potting soil in a hydro grow? WHAT? Come on now. :booked:

311 · Jun 1, 2010

pray4pistils said:
It's chock full of misinformation and stale technical advice.

This advice is borderline irresponsible -not to mention ignorant.

Potting soil in a hydro grow? WHAT? Come on now.

Hey, I know this is an old thread,but dude, I was reading some info on here,and it seems u come, knocking all this info down. Saying their wrong. Well I'm not gonna argue with u on all ur posts here, BUT!!!!!!!!! Before u go giving people advice saying other advice is wrong, make sure u got ur advice right. For starters, I DO NOT grow in potting soil in Hydro, AND NEVER WILL! Don't mix the 2, (even though technically, and soilless grow, is sorta Hydro. But we'll get back to that) I grow using potting soil,and Hydroponically I use Coco or Hydroton. Honestly mixing the 2 Doesn't make sense to me, BUT!!!!! With that being said............ Does that mean because I wouldn't do it it's not possible. According to u it CAN'T BE DONE! At least ur so so rude comment makes everyone to probably believe wat I believe. So without further ado. I have to say, I have seen quite a FEW successful grows, with potting soil as the media, in different hydroponic systems. In Top Drip, and wat I thought would for sure be a disaster, but he pulled it off. ARE U READY?????? DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!! A DWC with potting soil as the MEDIUM! Yes he had plastic bags(with holes for the roots), that held the soil, but it was still the growing media. Now I can be lying to u, and talking out my :moon:

(watch ur mouth! LMFAO!) So to back my stupid sroty up, I've got some FACTS!!!!!!! Here is a link to a page telling u how to use pooting soil as a beginner hydroponic. Here's a quote "Gardening with potting soils provides beginning growers with a simple, straightforward way to try out hydroponic gardening. Plants grow in nursery pots and can be watered by hand, eliminating the need for pumps, timers, and water systems."
And u can find MORE about RIGHT HERE! CLICK ON ME

NOW HOLD ON!!!!! Let me keep explaining some other things before u get irrational, and upset cause ur being corrected(cause I'm sure u'd rather argue then read, and understand how u gave people the wrong advice about this) I want u to FULLY understand wat Hydroponics actually is. Maybe u think Hydro is only the Botanicare, or GH systems or maybe even a DIY bubbler. Which all can be if used Hydroponically. And by that I mean "Hydroponics (From the Greek words hydro, water and ponos, labor) is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil"
Taken from CLICK ON ME

Now I know..... "Dude it says, without soil, right there!!!!" Yes it does. But Soil is:::::: Soil is a natural body consisting of layers (soil horizons) of mineral constituents of variable thicknesses, which differ from the parent materials in their morphological, physical, chemical, and mineralogical characteristics.
Taken From Wikipedia, if u'll CLICK ON ME! U'll read about Soil for urself

And that's NOT what were talkin about here, IS IT???????
We're talkin about good ol potting soil, which can be soilless. And can this not be potting soil mixture? Coco, perlite, vermiculite?

Now read this About Potting Soil :(1)Potting soil is a mixture used to grow plants, herbs and vegetables in a contained garden environment. (2) Despite its name, little or no soil is used in potting soil because it is considered too heavy for growing houseplants.
U gotta love Wikipedia for all this useful info about Potting Soil, if u'll just CLICK ON ME!

And last but not least, he does mention 100% Organic Potting soil, as a top dress, or top layer. OK! 1st I use a 100% Complete Organic OMRI Listed Potting Soil. The kicker is this..... THERE's NO fertilizer in it!!!! So I feed it every day, and there nutes in my water(not orgainc) Isnt that Hydroponic?????? Thought that is the EXACT meaning of Hydroponics u'll say no. I can 1/4 strength feed everyday, and the plants wouldn't burn from it. I know alot of growers, who never feed-feed-water or feed-water-water, or watever way u want to do it. They feed, feed, feed. They just don't feed, too high of a dosage, AND they don't get any run off! Go figure!!!!!!!! They must be lucky. But regardless , we feed our plants Hydroponic Nutes with every watering(which at 1 point is everyday),and the occassional flush(using clearex), with great success.

So check it! I actually agree with most of wat ur sayin(85% of ur facts are correct) BUT ur threw too many cocky comments, sorta seeming to be very attacking to my eyes. And also, u just kinda seemed to be talkin down to everyone. And it just left a bad taste in my mouth. SO when I read the sorta ignorant info in ur last post, I had to correct u. Maybe I'm the :moon:

, but I think I brought some reading material,for u to argue with. Cause it won't be me ur arguing with. I'm not Wikipedia, sorry! If ur comment would have been. "Potting Soil, in Hydro. Never heard of anyone doing so." It might not have sounded so bad, BUT!!!!!!!!!!

pray4pistils said:
Potting soil in a hydro grow? WHAT? Come on now.

Just sounded a lil rude, and not such a correct answer, for someone saying this whole thread was FULL of wrong info.

Remember wat I say, I AGREE WITH THE REST OF WAT U SAID, EVEN WITH THE LIL RUDENESS, IN THE POSTS. JUST NOT WITH UR LAST COMMENT. NOT CAUSE I THINK URE WRONG. BE+CAUSE WIKIPEDIA SAYS SO! :thank you:

I hope I don't offend or start a war in here.I was just trying to learn something. I love Organic ferts, and Hydro systems. Haven't crossed the 2 together yet, but that was my purpose here today, until I read a rude post. SO I apologize to everyone, if I seem to be the wrong 1. Peace to all. 3-11, 3-3-11!

khmaistnrgrl · Jun 7, 2010

Guest said:
An organic garden of hydro delights!
Since the water reservoir is not used to distribute the nutrients as is done with the "traditional" chemical method, there will be no need to worry about the nutrient PPM of the water. The reservoir will be used for the periodic watering of the lower secondary medium and root structure only. Using this organic method makes hydroponic growing as easy as soil growing by eliminating the need to keep a fine-tuned and precise chemically-balanced water reservoir.

With the organic hydroponics method, all of the organic nutrients are applied directly to the upper "soil" medium, much as they would be applied to any soil. If the organic nutrients used are in a liquid form, they are simply mixed to a proper concentration, the same as would be for soil application, and poured on the top of the medium. The secret is to not apply too many liquid nutrients at once.

Different mediums will have the capacity to hold water more than others. To find out the capacity of your upper medium, simply pour 1 cup of water in the upper section of the hydroponic container filled with medium. If 1/4 cup of water runs out the bottom, you may conclude that the moisture-holding ability of your particular amount of medium is slightly less than 3/4 cup. Next pour ½ cup of water into another container of your medium. If no water runs into the lava rock or out the bottom, you will then know that your medium will best retain 1/4 to ½ cup of nutrients per feeding.

You do not want to feed your plants with more nutrient-filled water than the medium will hold or you will drip nutrients into the lower secondary section and the bottom of your grow bed where they will then be returned to your reservoir. If during some feeding you notice a bit of nutrient water dripping from your grow container, into the grow bed, it is a simple job to just soak it up with a rag. If you notice any nutrients seeping down from the bottom of the upper grow medium into the lava rock, change the lava rock and use less liquid, or no liquid nutrient as a delivery system.

Pumping up a plant.
I recommend that you grow your plants in my standard medium formula: 1/3 perlite, 1/3 vermiculite and 1/3 of organic potting soil, or any loose 100% organic soil mixture, in the upper section. This combination of ingredients holds the nutrients and facilitates the upward capillary action of the water delivered from the reservoir. Using an organic soil based upper primary medium will create microbial action.

If you wish, you may mix organic nutrients, such as worm castings, directly into the soil mixture. The organic nutrients may also be mixed into a half cup of water and poured evenly across the top of the upper primary medium. Or you may choose to spread organic nutrients on the top of the upper medium, followed by a fine misting of water directly on the top of the medium. With any of these application methods, the organic nutrients will enter the soil to be utilized by the plant.

The upper "soil" or "soil alternative" where the nutrients are delivered should be treated just like any standard soil container. A light spraying once or twice a day to moisten the upper medium will assist the capillary action of the water from the lower hydroponic roots and lava rock.

If a small bit of nutrients drain downward into the reservoir, it is all right. The larger volume of water in the reservoir can absorb a small amount of organic nutrients without causing a problem. Standard chemical reservoirs need to have their water reservoir changed every week to two weeks and the same is true with this process. The reservoir water is changed every 1 to 2 weeks, depending on your ability to keep it clean.

Diagram by Sijay
The Container

Place lava rock in the bottom half of the hydroponic grow container, place a ½ inch medium divider of some hydroponic material, such as coir fiber, to prevent the soil from falling into the rockwool. Then place the medium of choice in the upper portion of the plant container. Place the container in the grow bed, so that only the lava rock will be watered. Using the Ebb and Flow method, when watering make sure the bottom of the upper medium will not be touched by the circulating water. If the circulating water touches the bottom of the upper medium, it may leach nutrients into the water in the reservoir. As the water circulates around the lower half of lava rock, a portion of water will capillary up through the medium divider and into the upper medium. (See Diagram 3. for a cut away drawing of organic water system.)

As the plants grow in the containers, they will develop two separate root systems. The upper root system will not use a hydroponic medium as the lower section does. I recommend that you use my standard suggested "soil" formula, or any organic soil, for the upper medium layer. You may use any organic nutrients, delivered either as a tea, spread on top, or mixed into the strata of the medium, with any of these hydroponic mediums.

The upper primary root system will develop a thick web-like matrix and structure of fine roots, similar to roots in standard soil. The upper medium will not be submerged in the water as the roots in the lower half of the container. The upper root web will allow for an enormous uptake of nutrients and create faster and more abundant growth. Plus the similar hydroponic nature of the upper medium "soil" mixture will allow additional oxygen to be exchanged within the medium.

In the lower half of the container filled with the lava rock, pumice, gravel, or sand, perlite, the secondary system of roots will develop. They will appear as the standard stringy, rope like structures common to hydroponic growing. There will be some fine hair-like roots, but not as abundant as those roots growing in the upper soil medium. These secondary roots, as with any hydroponic system, will take up water and, between watering cycles, be constantly exposed to more oxygen, which promotes faster metabolism and plant growth.

The water cycle may need a half hour, or less, to moisten the entire upper primary medium. If your upper medium takes longer to become completely moistened, then simply circulate the water at a slightly longer interval until the medium is properly moistened, or simply water the upper section separately, with a fine mist spray. The upper soil or medium only needs to be moist not soaked.

The development of a dual root structure will create a fast metabolizing growth system for your plants, that utilizes the essential processes and benefits of both soil and hydroponic gardening.

Diagram by Sijay
Closing

The organic nutrients placed in the upper soil portion of the container create roots that are allowed to develop in microbial activity, while the lower roots intake water as they are specially designed to do. This development of a dual root system creates a hydroponics process that is more similar to the growing processes in Nature than any other hydroponics process thus far.

The evolution to total organic hydroponics brings additional benefits to the entire world of hydroponics. This unique process eliminates the major problem of disposing of the chemically-laden water after the water is used in the standard hydroponics system. It eliminates the reliance on the hard-to-dispose of rockwool, or other nutrient filled waste material. And it permits the use of totally organic materials - from the mediums to the nutrients – throughout the seed to harvest stages.

Hydroponics gardening is rapidly growing in popularity, as well as changing in technique. Evolving from the Ebb and Flow method, the Nutrient Film/Flow Technique and Aeroponics. It was not too long ago that Semi-Organic Hydroponics arrived on the scene. And now, with Totally Organic Hydroponics, you can grow 100% hydroponics organically!

I hope you will enjoy this wonderful new way of gardening. While growing your plants to a certain stage of maturity for personal use, follow the simple instructions in Totally Organic Hydroponics, and you will be well on your way to becoming an expert organic hydroponic gardener.

Happy Gardening,
Paul

- This process is detailed in Paul Wright's new book, Totally Organic Hydroponics. www.organiponics.com

Very useful information here....How and where can I get the things to grow my plant or plants?

Maikowjai · Jun 10, 2010

smokeing improperly flushed organic isnt that great either

Harinama · Jun 24, 2010

i've grown the same strain using purevida(organic), and then BC(chem), and used pretty much the same methods for both(although bc is hella easier in my blumat system) including cure methods, buds ended up almost exactly the same for taste via both methods, very tasty and smooth.

My view after 20+yrs of growing is that organic and chem are treated the same by the plants, and as long as all the nutrients/micros are there in the right amounts, there is no difference AS LONG as flushing, drying & curing is done properly.

Now i do a balanced organic purevida veg(hand water), and chem BC bloom(blumat), and am VERY happy with the flavor, quality and quantity of my results.

This round i am testing fan leaf defoliation, and am super surprised at the increased growth of the budding branches, now that light filters much more through the canopy.

Now to shoot for that magic 1g/watt!

AmberMan · Jul 5, 2010

Thanks for the info. nice post!

HYDROPONIC OR ORGANIC...What's the difference?

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