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ORGANIC VS INORGANIC. The great debate.

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
I like no till gardens. I have seen great results too.

But a little Magnesium sulphate will remove all red pigment @ the correct pH in any setup.

I am curious if nutrients affect phenotype. From I or IO.

I get extreme phenotypic differences in rockwool vs LIM vs DWC with the same strain.

Side by side you would have a hard time distinguishing the same plant.

Same nutrients, same environment, same reservoir everything but different media.

The media or lack of it causes different types of growth.

Why is that?

So is the I vs IO insignificant? Is media the real debate? Opinions?
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
I like you point of view. I am at the opposite end in chem Hydro. But I enjoy hearing your experience as I am not done learning.

I would think in a natural scenario a plant would take up most of its nitrogen as NH4 as that is the most readily available and plentiful form near the surface.

We feed primarily NO3 as it does not cause acidification.

Do you think it has any effect? The type of nitrogen?

type of N is irrelevant as long as it is readily available to the plant and depleted by maturation
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
All plants the same pheno and the same "age"

Left is Organic soil just water. Middle is LIM chem hydro. Right is DWC chem Hydro.

So middle and right get the exact same nutrients. Far right is media free.

I can understand the differences in speed of growth by why the pheno shift? I haven't seen many other plant species change this radically.

 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
type of N is irrelevant as long as it is readily available to the plant and depleted by maturation

Thanks for that.

Do you think IO chems are any easier or harder to flush? In the plant they are the same right? Will need to look into the different media salts formed in O or IO and check solubility.

So you know I said about the tea tainted weed. Obviously something they use isnt flushing?

I don't make teas so maybe you know?
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
If one assumes the term "organic" is dependent on the rules/definitions as promulgated by the criteria at U.S. Code § 6518(m)(1-7) - National Organic Standards Board, then lets read those verses from that "bible":

(m) Evaluation. In evaluating substances considered for inclusion in the proposed National List or proposed amendment to the National List, the Board shall consider—
(1) the potential of such substances for detrimental chemical interactions with other materials used in organic farming systems;
(2) the toxicity and mode of action of the substance and of its breakdown products or any contaminants, and their persistence and areas of concentration in the environment;
(3) the probability of environmental contamination during manufacture, use, misuse or disposal of such substance;
(4) the effect of the substance on human health;
(5) the effects of the substance on biological and chemical interactions in the agroecosystem, including the physiological effects of the substance on soil organisms (including the salt index and solubility of the soil), crops and livestock;
(6) the alternatives to using the substance in terms of practices or other available materials; and
(7) its compatibility with a system of sustainable agriculture

Imo, there is this constant tension between "good farming" and "protect the environment", sometimes the "protect the environment" takes the backseat to "good farming". Example, Potassium Silicate it is approved for organic use for 2 out of 3 conditions: "pesticide" and "plant disease control" only--not for "plant nutrition".

Why? Criteria #3 (manufacturing process) is the reason why Potassium Silicate (aka AgSil, Pro-tekt, etc) is classified as a "synthetic". But because of Criteria #6 (other available products) Potassium Silicate is verbotten for "plant nutrition"...but OK for "pesticide" and "plant disease control".

Why? Because of this constant tension between "good farming" and "protect the environment". Synthetics OK sometimes...but not other times...fucking dogma!

Some people are good disciples of the faith and will obey all edicts commanded from above...then there are some of us that say "fuck that" and use our common sense to conduct "good farming" practices.

And then I was told by a guy wearing a white lab coat that processing phosphate rock for organic use--does not remove all of the natural radioactive material. Hmmm, anyone have a spare Geiger Counter?
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for that info. USDA Organic is all a bit messy.

When I think of O i think blood and bone meal, fish meal, kelp guano etc.

I do not think of Magnesium sulphate!!? But is is rock derived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

Does the above manufacturing look organic to you guys?

And you can use Epsom if you can show soil deficiencies.

Here is the USDA list. Gray? yes very Gray... Check out this bullshit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

Seems there may be a fair amount of IO nutes in O production to me...
 

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
And yes soil is complicated. But the microbial competition may be off topic?

Maybe we ought to assume an inert media?

Then we are not talking at all about soil. Soil is not an inert substance. It is not just a blank media. It's a living, functioning ecosystem. Microbial competition is EVERYTHING in terms of nutrient provision. If it wasn't for the consumption of bacteria and fungi by higher order species there would be very little conversion of those raw organic materials into proper ionic forms for plant uptake.

When I first started growing, it was with organic bottled nutrients in homemade aeroponic tubes. I kept the same bottled nutrient line and moved over to cheap soil. Then learned what REAL organics is about. There is no organic without the inclusion of soil. Based on current NOP standards, hydroponic anything is not considered organic, regardless the inputs sources.

My point being, I've experience both sides of the equation and even though I am ridiculed for this opinion, I stand by it.

Different hydroponic nutrient lines produce different flavors than others. Organic soil produces a different flavor than hydro does. I prefer the flavor of organic soil grown flowers. It's better.

We hardly understand the mechanisms in play when we start talking soil microbiology. We've barely scratched the surface. We can't effectively replicate the biochemical process of photosynthesis. I'm not one to take a currently accepted understanding of science and assert it as fact, above that of my own experiences. I think as we continue to learn and assimilate more information for data comparison, we will start to discover there are in fact measurable differences between the two.

Long story short = Organic Soil > Hydro. Every time.



dank.Frank
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
I realize O and "soil" go together 99% of the time.

I know many organic growers who use Promix and sunshine etc.
That is not really "Soil" though is it.

So I have to keep soil biology out of the conversation somewhat.

I am interested in the nutrients as they enter the plants root system. And if there is any difference between O and I nutrient ions/molecules.

How the microbes came to break down those minerals is the cycle of life in soil.

I am looking at the end nutes not how they came to exist.

O vs IO fertilizer is what I am getting at. When the mineral/ion is solute.

Not how the mineral was formed by biology. That is a massive topic.

The organic commercial flower around here tastes "dirty" for lack of a better word. Great terps but when burned not so much. I am not saying O cannot taste good far from it. I have grown great flower in an O super soil mix.
I know its in the teas here. You can smell it in the facilities, rec stores etc. I just do not know what component is causing that taste.
 

Drewsif

Member
OP, corporate science is bullshit. Its lies and gatekeeping.. Organic vs inorganic, there is no debate. We know nitrates are bad. Big Mike won't tell you that, if that's what you're waiting for? Science in general is not based on reality, its based on paper. Science says all farts smell the same and all pussy taste the same. Science says there are no strains. Fuck science. Fuck anyone who says nitrates are healthy to smoke.

Organic is just a word thrown around. It has a meaning. Nothing to do with gov permits..Organic is a plant with a digestive system, as nature intended.

Organic (natural, real) uses a digestive system, the soil. The end result is nutrition and flavor (Brix) in the plant. Inorganic can never be medical grade because it's largely these solids, not Thc, that provides healing. Natural oils and sugars IMPOSSIBLE to achieve without complex microbial waste digestion at the root zone.

Inorganic bypasses the stomach (root zone) and fills the body with chemicals directly. Iv bag and Flintstones vitamins = inorganic.

Have you ever wondered why people who grew up on twinkies and baloney can't hold an intelligent conversation? Shoving some vitamins down your throat as an adult to counter the fact you've never eaten nutritional food as a child, creates an artifical type of growth, an unnatural body and an unnatural mind.


The entire charade of "hydroponics" is that you can put the Brix levels in (fake them) by contaminating the plant with single molecule sugars and non-cannabis plant oils. This is fraud, a con, a sham. Hydroponic (Inorganic/soiless/direct injection) cannot hold natural Brix levels. The nutrion/flavor/medicinal levels are directly related to microbial waste digestion. Not from a plastic bottle. Unless it's bennies .

You cant have living soil with no soil. You cant grow natural (real, authentic) plants without microbial soil. Its fake produce. Not really an opinion here.. Food has to have nutrition to count as food. No one is spending 300 for an ounce of lettuce. Why would somone spend 300 on weed that has only reached the potential of lettuce? Cannabis needs to be what it is intended to be naturally; a flavorful healing spiritual craft produce crop. Not something that smells like boat seats and tastes like tanning lotion and upsets your stomach.
 
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mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
OP, corporate science is bullshit. Its lies and gatekeeping.. Organic vs inorganic, there is no debate. We know nitrates are bad. Big Mike won't tell you that, if that's what you're waiting for? Science in general is not based on reality, its based on paper. Science says all farts smell the same and all pussy taste the same. Science says there are no strains. Fuck science. Fuck anyone who says nitrates are healthy to smoke.

Organic is just a word thrown around. It has a meaning. Nothing to do with gov permits..Organic is a plant with a digestive system, as nature intended.

Organic (natural, real) uses a digestive system, the soil. The end result is nutrition and flavor (Brix) in the plant. Inorganic can never be medical grade because it's largely these solids, not Thc, that provides healing. Natural oils and sugars IMPOSSIBLE to achieve without complex microbial waste digestion at the root zone.

Inorganic bypasses the stomach (root zone) and fills the body with chemicals directly. Iv bag and Flintstones vitamins = inorganic.

Have you ever wondered why people who grew up on twinkies and baloney can't hold an intelligent conversation? Shoving some vitamins down your throat as an adult to counter the fact you've never eaten nutritional food as a child, creates an artifical type of growth, an unnatural body and an unnatural mind.


The entire charade of "hydroponics" is that you can put the Brix levels in (fake them) by contaminating the plant with single molecule sugars and non-cannabis plant oils. This is fraud, a con, a sham. Hydroponic (Inorganic/soiless/direct injection) cannot hold natural Brix levels. The nutrion/flavor/medicinal levels are directly related to microbial waste digestion. Not from a plastic bottle. Unless it's bennies .

You cant have living soil with no soil. You cant grow natural (real, authentic) plants without microbial soil. Its fake produce. Not really an opinion here.. Food has to have nutrition to count as food. No one is spending 300 for an ounce of lettuce. Why would somone spend 300 on weed that has only reached the potential of lettuce? Cannabis needs to be what it is intended to be naturally; a flavorful healing spiritual craft produce crop. Not something that smells like boat seats and tastes like tanning lotion and upsets your stomach.

Excellent glad to hear your thoughts.

So do you believe soil grown "natural" flower has a higher medicinal value?

I like how you used lettuce as an analogy. That is what DWC is to me.
The plants just take up a loony amount of water and are way more floppy all around. Whereas any inert media grows woodier plants.

But microbes can live in inert media too lets not forget that.

I look at chems much like protien shakes.

Sure there are BCAA's and aminos for days in a steak. The shake is predigested and absorbs faster.

For the record I prefer steak. But my plants live on shakes. That dosent seem fair...
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Again, the proper definition of "organic" is lacking.
We can't have a proper conversation/debate if everyone talks about something different.

Organic as a chemical term means that the molecules contain carbon, nothing more, nothing less, whereas "inorganic" mainly refers to mineral derived products.
In German and French language, "organic farming" etc. are termed "biological" which clearly distinguishes the term from organic chemistry. Organic farming does involve inorganic products too (e.g. limestone and depending on the regulations and certifications also other more or less pure mineral nutrients if specific conditions are met) but is mostly based on fertilisers and growing techniques of natural, ecological, environmental friendly, sustainable, unaltered, and synthesis-free origin.
The plants themselves don't care, O and IO are just definitions. What they do care about is which molecules and inorganic salts they get access to. Macromolecules such as bone and blood meal and coarse ground dolomite or granite need some sort of breakdown (e.g. mineralisation, weathering) prior to assimilation whereas a well brewed tea is, on a molecular level, to a good part inorganic although derived from "organic" (i.e. plant) matter. Said plant matter is seldom certified organic, though.

@Drewsif: You clearly have not the slightest hint of an approximate idea regarding even the most basic rules and definitions of chemistry and science. Big Mike is "corporate" and "marketing", not "science" or "chemistry". Probably he's also "bullshit" but he's certainly "big pockets full of money" and "great salesman"... Mentioning him in one sentence with "corporate science" is mockery and a disgrace for the real agricultural corporations like Dow Chemical Co., DuPont Pioneer, ChemChina, Syngenta, Bayer, and Monsanto who do real science and fund considerable university research programs (what we know about plant biology is to a good part only thanks to them!). These 6 alone control over 60% of the world market in agrochemicals and seeds, pollute the planet, do lobbying, control who eats what and how much... You simply have no idea. Sorry to say so! Ain't meant as an insult but just a logical deduction of your above statement.
 

Mia

Active member
And then I was told by a guy wearing a white lab coat that processing phosphate rock for organic use--does not remove all of the natural radioactive material. Hmmm, anyone have a spare Geiger Counter?

It's actually worse than that if I remember correctly. The process actually concentrates radioactive elements. If I also remember correctly, tobacco farmers are mandated by law in the US to use super rock phosphate as a fertilizer on a plant that is a wonderful bioaccumulator..
 

Cannabologist

Active member
Veteran
ROFL there are so many stupid assholes online. Always on weed forums.

Plants don't give a fuck. If you think so, you're a dumb hippy. If you think ITS ALWAYS BETTER THIS WAY MANNNN you're a dumb hippy.

If you think science is some XYZ thing, you're a dumb hippy.

Holy christ.

Don't listen or read ANYTHING on weed forums. Go to school (a REAL COLLEGE, preferably a conservative institution not run by crazy lefties. I know, its REALLY hard to do right now, I got lucky being on the cusp of this change, but there still are good schools out there), or learn from a REAL PRO. Not dumb hippies who get lucky using PLANT SCIENCE, FEEDING FERTILIZER SALTS TO THEIR PLANTS, and calling it "organic maaannnnn"... Without having ANY clue what they are babbling about, because they read shit in high times, off weed forums, and on youtube.

You're feeding salts to your plants, period. You don't feed your plants, you will get deficiencies and grow crappy pot.

If you think your "organic teas" and "organic SHIT", and all that other stuff you're pouring onto and into your plants is not fertilizer salts then you are an idiot.

But that's the problem, it's hard to know and plenty of people that are easy at parroting the bullshit you read from all the crappy books.

You'd think with all the available information out there, people would know better by now... It's fucking 2017 for christ's sake.

It's like the assholes who say/said UV doesn't or didn't do anything, hey guess what, all those people telling you that CRAP, those horrendous egregious LIES, are just saying that so they can grow the best pot and get the best results, and you just go and only grow okay pot, always chasing for something better, always wondering why/how those other guys did it. And it's always the same few dudes too who will tell you these things and claim oh yaaa I did a test for sure guy trust me its because I just used some molasses rofl ;)


DERP they did well because they fertilized their plants and used the right lights and had the right environment, and excellent top notch genetics. NOTHING to do with "organic".

You've been growing 20,000 seeds, and only 1 of them out of 19,999 is anything worth keeping. That guy always has that shit though? Hmmm I wonder why maybe think about it I shouldn't have to give you the answer you think that guy is SO good, or just super lucky with a good cut? ;)

NOTHING to do with soil. Most grows are not in anything that could be considered REAL SOIL, ie. DIRT. Your "supersoil" is not dirt and is NOT "organic" because organic/organics is bullshit and is a marketing term.Now you know. Accept facts or don't, I don't care :tiphat:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The fundamental process of nutrient absorption by plants is well established. Irrespective of whether nutrients originate from an organic or inorganic sources, plants are only capable of absorbing nutrients in certain forms. For example, nitrogen is only absorbed as nitrate (NO3-) ions or ammonium (NH4+) ions and potassium only as K+ ions. Thus, plants cannot distinguish between nutrients derived from organic and inorganic fertilizer sources[/FONT]
SO simple. So easy. You'd think people could just read and go, oh, okay, there you go! No they have to make up entire lines of insane bullshit to contradict simple well established plant biology.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Organic vs inorganic, there is no debate. We know nitrates are bad. Big Mike won't tell you that, if that's what you're waiting for? Science in general is not based on reality, its based on paper. Science says all farts smell the same and all pussy taste the same. Science says there are no strains. Fuck science. [/FONT]
JESUS fucking christ.

Get a clue hippy holy shit rofl:laughing:

You know why your pot tastes like that and you cough like that?? GENETICS. You know what color ash burns?? Grey, black, and white. BECAUSE THAT IS THE COLOR OF ASHES DUMMIES.

Rofl people trying to judge weed BY THE ASH.. You f'n morons lololoolooolol.

Here's a secret of mine when it comes to taste and having what many have told me is "the smoothest pot I've ever had, how long do you flush for".

What? Flush?? What the f is that. lol. Flush.

Pretty much everything is genetics. The rest is your fault ;)
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
ROFL there are so many stupid assholes online. Always on weed forums.

Plants don't give a fuck. If you think so, you're a dumb hippy. If you think ITS ALWAYS BETTER THIS WAY MANNNN you're a dumb hippy.

If you think science is some XYZ thing, you're a dumb hippy.

Holy christ.

Don't listen or read ANYTHING on weed forums. Go to school (a REAL COLLEGE, preferably a conservative institution not run by crazy lefties. I know, its REALLY hard to do right now, I got lucky being on the cusp of this change, but there still are good schools out there), or learn from a REAL PRO. Not dumb hippies who get lucky using PLANT SCIENCE, FEEDING FERTILIZER SALTS TO THEIR PLANTS, and calling it "organic maaannnnn"... Without having ANY clue what they are babbling about, because they read shit in high times, off weed forums, and on youtube.

You're feeding salts to your plants, period. You don't feed your plants, you will get deficiencies and grow crappy pot.

If you think your "organic teas" and "organic SHIT", and all that other stuff you're pouring onto and into your plants is not fertilizer salts then you are an idiot.

But that's the problem, it's hard to know and plenty of people that are easy at parroting the bullshit you read from all the crappy books.

You'd think with all the available information out there, people would know better by now... It's fucking 2017 for christ's sake.

It's like the assholes who say/said UV doesn't or didn't do anything, hey guess what, all those people telling you that CRAP, those horrendous egregious LIES, are just saying that so they can grow the best pot and get the best results, and you just go and only grow okay pot, always chasing for something better, always wondering why/how those other guys did it. And it's always the same few dudes too who will tell you these things and claim oh yaaa I did a test for sure guy trust me its because I just used some molasses rofl ;)


DERP they did well because they fertilized their plants and used the right lights and had the right environment, and excellent top notch genetics. NOTHING to do with "organic".

You've been growing 20,000 seeds, and only 1 of them out of 19,999 is anything worth keeping. That guy always has that shit though? Hmmm I wonder why maybe think about it I shouldn't have to give you the answer you think that guy is SO good, or just super lucky with a good cut? ;)

NOTHING to do with soil. Most grows are not in anything that could be considered REAL SOIL, ie. DIRT. Your "supersoil" is not dirt and is NOT "organic" because organic/organics is bullshit and is a marketing term.Now you know. Accept facts or don't, I don't care :tiphat:

SO simple. So easy. You'd think people could just read and go, oh, okay, there you go! No they have to make up entire lines of insane bullshit to contradict simple well established plant biology.

JESUS fucking christ.

Get a clue hippy holy shit rofl:laughing:

You know why your pot tastes like that and you cough like that?? GENETICS. You know what color ash burns?? Grey, black, and white. BECAUSE THAT IS THE COLOR OF ASHES DUMMIES.

Rofl people trying to judge weed BY THE ASH.. You f'n morons lololoolooolol.

Here's a secret of mine when it comes to taste and having what many have told me is "the smoothest pot I've ever had, how long do you flush for".

What? Flush?? What the f is that. lol. Flush.

Pretty much everything is genetics. The rest is your fault ;)

Although I share some of your opinions I do not voice them quite as harshly as you! lol

What genetics do you have that are so great they do not need flushing? I like the Light lime green buds I get when I starve my plants.

And I guess fam Gelato#33, Thin Mint GSC, Fire OG and GG#4 are all shit strains.

Because the taste difference between 1wk and 2 wks flush is drastic.
The burnt plant taste fades and terps come through at 2+wks.

That is my experience doing side by side flush times which I do with all new strains.
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
Again, the proper definition of "organic" is lacking.
We can't have a proper conversation/debate if everyone talks about something different.

Organic as a chemical term means that the molecules contain carbon, nothing more, nothing less, whereas "inorganic" mainly refers to mineral derived products.
In German and French language, "organic farming" etc. are termed "biological" which clearly distinguishes the term from organic chemistry. Organic farming does involve inorganic products too (e.g. limestone and depending on the regulations and certifications also other more or less pure mineral nutrients if specific conditions are met) but is mostly based on fertilisers and growing techniques of natural, ecological, environmental friendly, sustainable, unaltered, and synthesis-free origin.
The plants themselves don't care, O and IO are just definitions. What they do care about is which molecules and inorganic salts they get access to. Macromolecules such as bone and blood meal and coarse ground dolomite or granite need some sort of breakdown (e.g. mineralisation, weathering) prior to assimilation whereas a well brewed tea is, on a molecular level, to a good part inorganic although derived from "organic" (i.e. plant) matter. Said plant matter is seldom certified organic, though.

@Drewsif: You clearly have not the slightest hint of an approximate idea regarding even the most basic rules and definitions of chemistry and science. Big Mike is "corporate" and "marketing", not "science" or "chemistry". Probably he's also "bullshit" but he's certainly "big pockets full of money" and "great salesman"... Mentioning him in one sentence with "corporate science" is mockery and a disgrace for the real agricultural corporations like Dow Chemical Co., DuPont Pioneer, ChemChina, Syngenta, Bayer, and Monsanto who do real science and fund considerable university research programs (what we know about plant biology is to a good part only thanks to them!). These 6 alone control over 60% of the world market in agrochemicals and seeds, pollute the planet, do lobbying, control who eats what and how much... You simply have no idea. Sorry to say so! Ain't meant as an insult but just a logical deduction of your above statement.

I like the "biological" terminology. Makes a hell of alot more sense.

And yes I think the teas have passed the O barrier a tad.
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
@ Only Ornamental

If we use the carbon atom as the definition, which I like, I think a great deal of O framers would find out they are feeding IO... teas for sure right?
 
B

bigganjabud

Man I'm scared to post this but here I go

Shrooms man this is a Pandora box and that's all I'm going to say to anyone who has posted so far

My personal experience

Tried organic with a Wilma system and had blocked drippers that were ruined

Tried io with Wilma and pebbles and got further

Now after a mix of bits and bobs and getting my grows through to the chop I rekon it don't really matter tbh
Whatever style or system or medium if you look after your plants then you will get results

This is a bit like the chicken and egg argument

Or the who came first the chicken or the egg

The good thing about plants is there is a plethora of things and styles to choose or study and if I'm honest then it only matters to the individual

Some swear by o some by io some by semi o or semi io

The point I'm trying to make is all plants are different and so are growers and conditions

Who am I to tell anyone how to do anything, all I can do is demonstrate how I do what I do

AND NEVER BELIEVE I KNOW IT ALL

Namestae
 

Cannabologist

Active member
Veteran
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although I share some of your opinions I do not voice them quite as harshly as you! lol

What genetics do you have that are so great they do not need flushing? I like the Light lime green buds I get when I starve my plants.

And I guess fam Gelato#33, Thin Mint GSC, Fire OG and GG#4 are all shit strains.

Because the taste difference between 1wk and 2 wks flush is drastic.
The burnt plant taste fades and terps come through at 2+wks.

That is my experience doing side by side flush times which I do with all new strains.
[/FONT]
Tough love is tough! Sometimes people need a kick in the butt to get their head screwed back on straight.

Which is what I had said before ie. "why does this pot taste so bad"/"taste like that?"
"Because that's how it tastes, which is harsh and not good, and burning on your throat. Don't expect that to ever change no matter how much you rob your plant of nutrients at the end of it's life cycle."

They aren't shit but they also aren't smooth UNLESS they actually are... Which is unless you selected clones from seed that are, or was given one that is ;)


I been growing the same shit since before I started posting on these forums, and it hasn't been any different in any real regard.

All the factors that people say are the most important (flush like this for XYZ days in this manner, cure like this for XYZ days in this manner, etc., etc), I've found are bullshit. And it makes sense too, because everyone you ask always has a different method or different opinion, and theirs is always of course best.

All the stuff they aren't telling you, they don't know, and don't focus on, that's the real shit to worry about and focus on. Feeding, lights, environment, and your genetics. We know these parameters, and they haven't changed for years now. But we want to ignore them in favor of something else.

If you have to flush to get smell to come out in your strains, you're probably not doing something properly (like burning the shit out of your plants with TOO much ferts, and thus you have to flush to remove some... Well course you aren't getting any taste, your plants are in a constant state of nutrient lockout from over fertilizing)... At least that'd be my opinion in regards as to what's going on and why you are incurring the results that you are.

Cause, that's another first one on me that I've ever heard rofl "you gotta flush your plants to get the smell/taste to come out/come back".. I mean.. Jesus... I gotta be honest with you, nobody has to or should have to do that... If you are getting burnt plant taste, you are doing something wrong, have harsh tasting plants, aren't trimming properly, etc., etc.
 

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