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The Organic Think Tank

TexasToker

Member
organic growing as a whole cannot be done indoors under HPS lights and all the other "perfect" room grows.

really? I am pretty sure that is just your opinion. You say since an HID is not the sun, it is not organic? lol....ok.

You tell that to the multi-million dollar companies that do it.
 
R

RNDZL

Organic horticulture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Organic horticulture is the science and art of growing fruits, vegetables, flowers, or ornamental plants by following the essential principles of organic agriculture in soil building and conservation, pest management, and heirloom variety preservation.
 

mg75

Member
who cares about the multi-million dollar companies... if organic was not the "in" word... they would not use it.

ask them about the genetically modified food/plants they feed "organic" food to.
 

Centrum

In search of Genetics
Veteran
Organic vs chemical tests side by side scientifically proven that organic does not produce some magically clean product.

Organic vs Chemical taste tests 9:1 Chemical Always out tasted the organic.

I think Organics are like religion once your infected " you are what you believe" and like religion a lot of organic folk will chastize and demonize you for not following or believing them.


You can do 1,000,000,000,000,000 Side By Sides 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Taste tests and prove it so completely undeniably blatant that the chemically fed items produce a better product overall and they would still be in denial.
Which is okay, it doesnt really matter whats better it just matters whats better for you in your mind and what makes you happy at the end of the day.

Best of luck
 
R

RNDZL

A) organics are cheaper

B) imbalance in either a organic or inorganic environment will breed a dangerous population of e-coli. Ecoli is present in the gut of many organisms such as reptiles but is kept in check in a naturally balanced system

in fact these disease and outbreaks are due to techniques that don't have the same checks and balances of a healthy soil web

if you like insert the word tomato for marijuana and ill submit all these assertions to the university of your choice for clarification

there is a far greater markup on synthetic nutrients int the sales cycle from manufacture to consumer

the real markup comes when they target pot growers who lack the critical thinking or educational caveats to be able to understand what it is they are buying and why and what the relative opportunity cost of that decision is

which based on the explanations isn't very apparent

im not knocking any grow method, in fact every one has scenario where it is most appropriate.

the apparent lack of applicable relativity speaks volumes about ones experiences with these said techs
 
R

RNDZL

Organic vs chemical tests side by side scientifically proven that organic does not produce some magically clean product.

Organic vs Chemical taste tests 9:1 Chemical Always out tasted the organic.

I think Organics are like religion once your infected " you are what you believe" and like religion a lot of organic folk will chastize and demonize you for not following or believing them.


You can do 1,000,000,000,000,000 Side By Sides 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Taste tests and prove it so completely undeniably blatant that the chemically fed items produce a better product overall and they would still be in denial.
Which is okay, it doesnt really matter whats better it just matters whats better for you in your mind and what makes you happy at the end of the day.

Best of luck

absolute bullshit

A) lets see who ran the trial and the tests, the aggregate figures and testing methods

B) most people organic or synthetic don't know much about the art or reducing the ambient nutrient stores in the plant as it enters the end of its life cycle

this can be done regardless of how you feed the plant in a variety of methods

bottom line is its far easier to grow and stop feeding a plant when you feed in your water and your substrate is inert

timing the breakdown of organic materials to be consumed at the end of the life cycle is tough

OUTDOORS environmental cues like temperature SHUTS DOWN the soil web SO IN ESSENCE IT STOPS FEEDING THE PLANT

which forces the magic fall color change and leaf loss but also is indicative for the plant using many of the unpleasant components to harsh smoke like Chlorophyll

feed in your water and not your substrate if you container or indoor garden and you will get your burn as clean as when you stop feeding with synthetics
 
R

RNDZL

and also my apologies if I sound inflamed

its not at anyone or any grower, just my perceived misconceptions about organics

I am not saying that organics is the best choice for every garden in every instance

before you judge the source I have grown exclusively in all manners all techs in basically all scenerios

for hydroponics for example, if you use aquashield you are using bacteria that have been extracted from the soil web, the same that are cultivated in organic gardening

i have spent close to 2 decades growing and applying that experience to the marijuana and horticultural products to science of botany and basically the real snake oils are the obfuscation of ingredients that are used in non niche agricultural markets for 4th the price both organic or otherwise
 
R

RNDZL

also keep in mind about such a small percentage of the soil web are known that as scientist discover them they are bringing them to market in marketed products

aquashield is the same example I will use

at least 2 of the bacteria they use are newly discovered and have vague information

BUT if you dig deep several researches were done on their effects which detail the discovered relationship they have with the plant

one for example offers resistance to drought when it enters the rhizosphere the other disease resistance
 
R

RNDZL

the last caveat to organic gardening for the clandestine gardener who does not practice his craft in a legal climate

buying raw organic materials and making nutrients and micro organisms to support your plants life cycle take you as far off the BUYING MARIJUANA MARKETED SUPPLIES grid as one coudl hope for

if your buying guano at agway im sure your not as worried as my dude buying connoisseur at the local HYDRO store

AND TRUTH BE TOLD

its the only reason i deviated from using synth nutes in the first place

I was tired of having to expose myself as a hydro gardener
 

toohighmf

Well-known member
Veteran
True organics with guanos and animal product are far more dangerous for your health when smoking/vaping. As is Soil for the most part. Smoking cadmium, nickle, iron, and other trace elements is not healthy. Would you eat a turd? would you smoke one? how about bonemeal? When we eat organic foods our body digests and uptakes the minerals. smoking them is converting them to a toxic carcinogen. I use salt based ferts and a substrate I can fully flush.
 

Cali_Boss

Member
IMHO indoor doesnt matter whether its organic or not. but outdoor, organic weed tends to hold up to the elements better. organic nutes provide natural pesticides the plant gives off that non-natural formulas cant provide. if mastered, an organic crop wont be as affected by all kinds of insects as opposed to a non-natural grow. tons of info to support this
 
R

RNDZL

True organics with guanos and animal product are far more dangerous for your health when smoking/vaping.


the adulterants used in synthetic farming were traced to tobacco carcinogens and other health risks

since we cant qualify what you assert with scientific fact we can qualify it using another plant that is en mass



[/B]As is Soil for the most part. Smoking cadmium, nickle, iron, and other trace elements is not healthy. Would you eat a turd? would you smoke one? how about bonemeal? When we eat organic foods our body digests and uptakes the minerals. smoking them is converting them to a toxic carcinogen. I use salt based ferts and a substrate I can fully flush.

would you drink a bottle of your synth nutes

if your salt nutes are so fucking non caustic smoke them straight

cause I can eat kelp and fish and grow with it too

it is in all ways compatible with my living being

drink a bottle of YOUR ferts and tell me if your body assimilate it in the same way

im waiting PATIENTLY for the results
 

toohighmf

Well-known member
Veteran
thats pretty funny. you got me. I would never drink my chem ferts, however, I do love sushi and seaweed salad. would you put that fish or seaweed in a pipe and smoke it??? lol
 
R

RNDZL

thats pretty funny. you got me. I would never drink my chem ferts, however, I do love sushi and seaweed salad. would you put that fish or seaweed in a pipe and smoke it??? lol

well how long have I been outta weed??? :)
 

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Since this is an Organic HYDRO forum, let's keep it to strictly indoor grows. If someone has an organic hydro OUTDOOR grow I'd love to see it.

Hydro implies a reservoir, which consists of either water, or water and teas, or water and organic bottled nutes.

Who besides me has done a side by side of bottled organic nutes vs bottled chem nutes?

Also, to the big organic fans, who has not seen the Penn and Teller episode of Bullshit on organics? Real eye-opener that, in all of their blind taste tests people chose the non-organic bananas 90% of the time over organics. When they cut a non-organic banana in half and told people that half was organic, the people preferred the organic side, of the non-organic banana! Just shows you that folks are stupid and will buy what they're told is better.
 
R

RNDZL

Since this is an Organic HYDRO forum, let's keep it to strictly indoor grows. If someone has an organic hydro OUTDOOR grow I'd love to see it.

Hydro implies a reservoir, which consists of either water, or water and teas, or water and organic bottled nutes.

Who besides me has done a side by side of bottled organic nutes vs bottled chem nutes?

Also, to the big organic fans, who has not seen the Penn and Teller episode of Bullshit on organics? Real eye-opener that, in all of their blind taste tests people chose the non-organic bananas 90% of the time over organics. When they cut a non-organic banana in half and told people that half was organic, the people preferred the organic side, of the non-organic banana! Just shows you that folks are stupid and will buy what they're told is better.

see this is the problem with subjective sensationalist journalism

but lets add to this picture

A) you are using illusionists, who use misdirection to provide an alternate truth as a profession as a gauge for accurate information

B) there was not complete qualifying information to show the processes and the factors regarding each banana and is horticulture

C) how do you know the control group they tested had a discriminating palate


D) YOU CAN FUCK UP ORGANICS just as well as you can SYNTHETICS what controls and measures were used to assure each had equal i presentation and availability of nutrients as well as macro and micro environments ?

and YES I have done both SIDE BY SIDE yes I see taste differences in both

but let me ask do you add black strap do you add sweet do you add anything synthetically derived or not to replace the natural component that does this?

cause i suggest if you are going to compare generic "synthetics" to generic "organics" the true test is gh 3 part NO OTHER AMENDMENTS

vs

any variety of organically derived compounds not excluding all the living components of the soil web, the additional beneficials, acids, and other components of the soil that wont be present and tell me yourself do they taste the same

not saying one is better than the other, but i know my preference, and i know they are different




my personal preference is hybrid, i like a lil salt on my steak and a lil salt in my soil
 

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
see this is the problem with subjective sensationalist journalism

but lets add to this picture

A) you are using illusionists, who use misdirection to provide an alternate truth as a profession as a gauge for accurate information

B) there was not complete qualifying information to show the processes and the factors regarding each banana and is horticulture

C) how do you know the control group they tested had a discriminating palate

You're picking hairs here, the idea is that it gives a good representation of what the average person can tell or taste. In their spontaneous study, random supermarket shoppers were tested. Why does their finding not matter, they're the ones who buy products!



D) YOU CAN FUCK UP ORGANICS just as well as you can SYNTHETICS what controls and measures were used to assure each had equal i presentation and availability of nutrients as well as macro and micro environments ?

Of course you can, and its easier to fuck up salts because they absorb so quickly, and organics absorb slowly.

I used the bottles as labeled, AN Sensi two part vs Pura Vida Organics one-part. Followed the directions, except in veg when the PVO Grow was so weak I was adding it at 25-30ml per gallon as it's extremely weak. When plants are yellowing because of N def on organic bottled nutes I worry.

Constant monitoring of elemental presence and quantities is nigh impossible. But if you've got a magic solution I'd love to get a peek at your mass spectrometer.

and YES I have done both SIDE BY SIDE yes I see taste differences in both

How did your organics yield vs the salts?

but let me ask do you add black strap do you add sweet do you add anything synthetically derived or not to replace the natural component that does this?

Yes, I added molasses to both reservoirs at the same time in order to keep the test more fair.


cause i suggest if you are going to compare generic "synthetics" to generic "organics" the true test is gh 3 part NO OTHER AMENDMENTS

Why only GH 3 part? There are a dozen companies that make salt-based fert lines.

vs

any variety of organically derived compounds not excluding all the living components of the soil web, the additional beneficials, acids, and other components of the soil that wont be present and tell me yourself do they taste the same

I added mycorrhizae, subcultureM, INoculaid lite, PVO (grow/bloom) and molasses to the organic res. Grown in both FFOF and coco.
not saying one is better than the other, but i know my preference, and i know they are different




my personal preference is hybrid, i like a lil salt on my steak and a lil salt in my soil

Yep, ditto, I use FFOF for starting plants in veg, easier to meter out the organic nutes slowly to tender young roots. In late veg and flower they get strong salt nutes.
 

Suby

**AWD** Aficianado
Veteran
I am glad I am now well enough to start posting again.:tiphat:

Both methods given an educated user can deliver a fine product in the way of yield, taste, high, etc.
I don't believe in hydro organics (this excludes aquaponics), organic principles work but actually being 100% organic is an exercise in futility.
I've used PBPro in bubblers and had amazing results but to me it still wasn't organics, if your not a purist then by all means go nuts, it works and well at that.
I've also tried Earth Juice line, it was a hassle, expensive, results where OK.
Growing MJ is an art in itself, because of our arcane laws we are forced to make the very most to maximize yield given that alot of us grow in confined spaces under artificial conditions, very few cultivars fall under this category.
Even 1% better yield can mean big $, it's worth so much even an expensive product is worth it in the long run.
If we could all grow outside, under the sun and stars, then paying top dollar for a fancy fert to grow MJ which reaches 6ft+ in plain soil is a waste of money.
When I grew outdoors I would ammend the soil with dry slow release ferts (which are really cheap) and give them compost teas (also cheap and easy) and let mother nature take care of the rest.
A compost bin or worm bin is fun and easy not to mention cheap, ad it to the soil and work it periodically and voila.
I know, I know this isn't hydro, that's because organics depend on a medium thus my problem with hydro-organics.
In my indoor spaces, I reused my soil and used teas, IMO it doesn't get any easier than that, I don't have to lug water, test ph, measure or buy nutes, etc, I just mix a rich soil, add my compost, use microbial teas, finito.
I keep hearing organics is hard or takes alot of time, it's as easy reading a label and mixing in a few easy to find ingredients.
I don't trust studies for or against, I trust in my own personal experience and well there it is.
 
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