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Old 04-06-2018, 06:00 PM #1
growingcrazy
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The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

This will be a continuation of the SlowN Thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=331317

Please post grows, soil mixes, soil-less mixes, nutrient mixes etc. that are in line with the topic. (I am trying to keep the term "SlowN method" out of this)

This thread is to grow the Community, If you can't get in line with that, Please stay out.

I will personally PM anyone that is out of line in this thread before contacting a Mod. If you feel someone is out of line, PM me first.


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Old 04-07-2018, 02:54 AM #2
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Dope! I will post a mix Worthy of this continuation during the coming outdoor season.

Before we go any further-

Soil Math and Glossary 101:

TEC - Total Exchange Capacity - Of all particles and receptor sites in a mix, a value which demonstrates the size and ability to retain or make available cations and anions.
Cations - Elements or ions, of which the net result is a positive charge.
Anions - Elements or ions, of which the net result is a negative charge.
CEC - Cation Exchange Capacity - "The total capacity of a soil to hold exchangeable cations. It influences the soil's ability to hold onto essential nutrients and provides a buffer against soil acidification."
EC - Electrical Conductivity (measured in micro-siemens, µS/cm, "measure of the concentration of dissolved solids which have been ionized in a polar solution *cough* water")
ppm/ppb - Parts per million/billion
mEq - milli-equivalents/(typically of 100 grams of soil or mix content)
Bulk Density = mass of dried soil per volume of that soil when field ready (dry weight of the soil and divide by total volume). Usually expressed in grams per cubic centimeter. - biggreg

Percent Nutrient Saturation - Each elements individual presence in the TEC
Percent Base Saturation - The sum of a groups (Ca ++, Mg ++, K+, Na+, H+, [sometimes Fe ++, Zn ++, Cu ++, Mn++, Al +++]) percentage or presence as cation's in the TEC

M3 - Melich 3 testing method- an extractant which when combined with soil samples will separate elements from each other and organic material to determine nutrient saturation.
AA @ 8.2 - Ammonium Acetate/pH 8.2 testing method -an extractant used to determine nutrient saturation which does not overestimate Ca++ content, which M3 may.

Calculating Base Saturation - I'll put it in my own words someday but for now, the Midwest link will do nicely. Change to http :,

https://midwestlabs.com/wp-content/u...Saturation.pdf

Calculating PPM and percentages for a specific nutrient/product (example/starting point is Agsil 16) ~Avenger
Examine your label
https://www.certisusa.com/pdf-labels/agsil16H_label.pdf

Silica (SiO2)…………. 53%
Potassium (K2O)........32%

52.8 (53% as listed by AgSil) times ten equals 528 ppm from one gram Agsil 16h in one liter final volume solution

divide 528 by 3.785 and you get 139.5 ppm in one gallon final volume solution from one gram Agsil 16h

SiO2 is [sic]46.75% silicon(Si): 53.25 oxygen (O), so ...

139.5 times 0.4675= 65.22 ppm silicon (Si) from one gram Agsil 16h in one gallon final volume solution.

65.22 x 0.7 = 45.7 ppm Silicon from 0.7 grams in one gallon final volume
65.22 x 1.25= 81.5 ppm Silicon from 1.25 grams in one gallon final volume

((the solubility limit is ~120 ppm SiO2[~56 ppm Si]))

Additional Equations and Circumstances: Bulk Density and Conversions

Pages 1-4:https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=335672
Practice Problems/Equations: Porosity and Bulk Density: https://lawr.ucdavis.edu/classes/SSC...ts/pset01.html
Volume Conversion Calculator: https://www.endmemo.com/convert/volume.php
Area Conversion Calculator: https://www.endmemo.com/convert/area.php
Cubic Yard Calculator and Tables (scroll down):(1) https://www.harvestpower.com/product...pe-calculator/ (2) https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...calculator.php
(lesser used) Cubic Ft. to Sq. Ft.: https://www.endmemo.com/cconvert/ft3ft2.php

I'll edit often and tidy up. Any resources or links that should be easily accessible will be included.

Capacities of common substrates: https://www.extension.uidaho.edu/nur...CN%20ratio.PDF
Organic Soil vs. Mineral Soil: https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment....9&d=1480837564
The difference between M3 and AA testing (The USGA article): https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py...oil-3-4-11.pdf
Tiedjens, Albrecht, and more: https://soilanalyst.org/category/authors/
Further Reading: https://soilanalyst.org/category/textbooks/

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Old 04-07-2018, 02:52 PM #3
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1-2-1, balanced micros and a butt ton of gypsum! Working great for my indoor run. A week or so from harvest, I will post a picture of a bud or two when its all done. Redonk quality.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:21 PM #4
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:21 PM #5
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Any chance someone could post the formula for calculating how many ppms of each element are coming from a compound?

I.e.
Diamond K gypsum contains 22.5% Ca and 18% S. How would I figure out how much Gypsum to use if I wanted to add 250 ppms of Ca to a yard of soil?
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:29 PM #6
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https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/sup...ercent_sat.htm

Atomic weight divided by valence electrons multiplied by 100; then double that to achieve lbs/acre, according to their table.

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Old 04-07-2018, 07:17 PM #7
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That is 500 lbs to the acre of Ca.

500 / .225 = 2,222 lbs / acre of Diamond K gyp. to get 500 lbs or 250 ppm per acre...

43560 square feet per acre / 2 = 21,780 cuft in an acre, a furrow deep. (6.7")... I use 6" to calculate.

21,780 / 27 = 806 yards per acre

2,222 / 806 = 2.75 lbs / yard to get to 250 ppm or 500 PPA, pounds per acre.

So 2.75 lbs per yard of soil.

On a peat based soil-less mix I would cut that number in half.

If anyone would like to correct that, please show me.

Edit: I like to use ppm for calculating fert. requirements, but use meq calculations for balancing. I am sure a lot of you already know that, but some do not.
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:10 PM #8
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:32 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alg0rithm View Post
Any chance someone could post the formula for calculating how many ppms of each element are coming from a compound?
NP

100% w/w = 1,000,000 PPM =One million parts per million.

10%= 100,000 PPM = 100 gr/L
1% = 10,000 PPM = 10 gr/L
.
.
.
0.0001 miligram per litter = 1 PPM

So if we have 100g pure gipsum salt (CaSO4) we have 28g of Ca+ and 72g of SO4-.
When the molecular mas of Ca is 40, and the molecular mas of SO4- is 98.

if we take all the salt and add it to 1 Litter of water we will have a solution that has 4% Ca (40/1000) or 40,000 PPM of Ca.

Last edited by Agronomist; 04-07-2018 at 08:42 PM.. Reason: :P
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:38 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growingcrazy View Post
That is 500 lbs to the acre of Ca.

500 / .225 = 2,222 lbs / acre of Diamond K gyp. to get 500 lbs or 250 ppm per acre...

43560 square feet per acre / 2 = 21,780 cuft in an acre, a furrow deep. (6.7")... I use 6" to calculate.

21,780 / 27 = 806 yards per acre

2,222 / 806 = 2.75 lbs / yard to get to 250 ppm or 500 PPA, pounds per acre.

So 2.75 lbs per yard of soil.

On a peat based soil-less mix I would cut that number in half.

If anyone would like to correct that, please show me.

Edit: I like to use ppm for calculating fert. requirements, but use meq calculations for balancing. I am sure a lot of you already know that, but some do not.
I can dig it- lemme see if I got this right

Desired PPM- Double it to get PPA

Desired PPA = Usable lbs/acre
% of element

Usable lbs/acre = Amount/ft of soil (adjust for cu. yd.)
furrow cu. ft./acre

Does that jive?
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