Pheno Hunting Strategy

nathalia · Nov 29, 2017

hey guys

to find the best pheno it's best growing out as many regular seeds as possible.
So I will grow (too) much plants in 1/2 gallon pots using 12/12 from seed.
After throwing out the boys, there will be still too much girls-
no space to bloom all because of bigger flower-pots: some girls will be killed by me

hunting for the best yielding pheno,
my plan is to pick out only the fastest girls & only flower out the first girls that have shown their sex (pre-flower) early.

what do you guys think about that?
good strategy to find the best yielder or has the speed of pre-flower nothing to say about final yield?

thank you so much u all got my love at this awesome forum !
nathalia

<3

HolyGrailP · Nov 29, 2017

Hi nathalia,

I think I read from DJ's book that pre-flower plant may have hermi-tendency. Maybe, it only means a male plant not female.
You can try to rub and smell the stem for the pheno hunt or look for thicker stem for hunting best yielding plant. Also, I heard DJXX (forum member) is really skilled on pheno hunting in limited space. You can check out his posts.
Good luck with it!!

nathalia · Nov 29, 2017

heyy

thank you I will check out DJXX
this strategy is 12/12 from seed, so all signs of sex should be real
wouldn't you say that the plants showing very fast their sex at the End yield best?

Lester Beans · Nov 29, 2017

HolyGrailP said:
Hi nathalia,

I think I read from DJ's book that pre-flower plant may have hermi-tendency. Maybe, it only means a male plant not female.
You can try to rub and smell the stem for the pheno hunt or look for thicker stem for hunting best yielding plant. Also, I heard DJXX (forum member) is really skilled on pheno hunting in limited space. You can check out his posts.
Good luck with it!!

I don't much understand the first part. Preflowers are a sign the plant has matured sexually and has nothing to do with herms.

DJXX and DoubleTripleOG both pheno hunt using solo cups. Lots of tips in both their killer threads!

You are on the right path. Kill the males, cull the weak plants. Take clones of each and flower the clones keeping the originals in veg is the way to go. If not enough room, sex the plants, take clones from each, and flower them.

Good luck hunting!

Snook · Nov 29, 2017

this is where I too come up short. Way back I came to realize that the seed plant doesnt necessarily give its' best representation until the second run of that plant > clone. Additionally, biggest doesnt necessarily mean the biggest producer or the best quality... In fact, some of the best 'head stash/heirloom' strains are small producing plants.. and figuring out the sex of a seed is like finding unicorn testicles ... ha,ha, I just last week was informed that all unicorns were female thats why there are no more... Hummmm!

Limeygreen · Nov 29, 2017

To go this way some of the easiest things to look for are what you like a plant for your set up, plant structure, growth rate etc you already have some criteria you like. I would make a list prior to selections so you know what you want (as you're already doing) and don't make any decisions based on emotions, simply the criteria you are after and easy to set thresholds you are comfortable with. You run the risk of culling plants with other desirable characteristics you like but that's the way it goes.

One thing I like to look for myself is if they have trouble rooting when siblings do easily, they often don't get a second chance, one example is if I have cuttings root in 12 days but siblings want to take 21 or more days and other varieties are taking 7-10 days in the same conditions I cull them, I don't want to have difficult to propagate plants myself.

I went through a pack of haze 5 x skunk haze and dropped it down to one selection, the rest had poor branching for me, steep angles, too stacked up etc so they all got culled aside from one, low vigour plants get culled as well, if it's low vigour then I do not want it.

If you're growing sog or scrog, bush, topping multiple times, lst, different plants behave different, if they don't have good structure or lend themselves to your growing methods then they won't produce well for your system easy to cull based on that alone.

HolyGrailP · Nov 30, 2017

Lester Beans said:
I don't much understand the first part. Preflowers are a sign the plant has matured sexually and has nothing to do with herms.

DJXX and DoubleTripleOG both pheno hunt using solo cups. Lots of tips in both their killer threads!

You are on the right path. Kill the males, cull the weak plants. Take clones of each and flower the clones keeping the originals in veg is the way to go. If not enough room, sex the plants, take clones from each, and flower them.

Good luck hunting!

Hi Lester Beans,

Sorry for the misinformation. You are right. After coming back to home, I checked DJ's book (Cultivating exceptional cannabis) and it was about selecting male plants. It says, 'First, any auto-flowering (male flowers that form regardless of light cycle timing) or very early declared males are eliminated.' In my opinion, it is the case for a male-landrace strain, as DJ worked with landraces for Floral and Blueberry line.
So yeah, female plants are not in the case then.

Easy7 · Nov 30, 2017

Start with good seeds
Veg plants to show sex and select females, kull males
Take cuts from females and keep vegging in the veg space and root clones there
Veg clones in flower tent then flower

I prefer testing less females than more. Have plenty of material to smoke on and evaluate. You can always rotate in new cuts and keep keepers until something better found. Small plants don't give much to smoke on for figuring their quality. It becomes difficult in huge groups of tiny fragile low yeilding crops.

MJPassion · Nov 30, 2017

Your plan sounds like it will fit your desires, however, I think you might have better luck starting smaller.

If you're are culling females you haven't run you are potentially tossing gems.

The whole tossing early flowering males worked for DJs programs but it's NOT a rule... It's a preference! Nothing more.

Do as thou will!

mushroombrew · Nov 30, 2017

I depends what you are going for. I find choosing only fast plants can lead to Hempy traits if done repeatedly within the same line.

And some varieties take a while to get going. I have seen indicas out grow Chems in the first month of veg and then suddenly BAM! They explode.

I pheno hunt constantly. But take two clones off each plant and then flip. Drop your numbers down some. And select plants no sooner than 3 wks into flower.

Are you just trying to find the fastest flowering strain? What are your goals?

You will overlook many potent specimens choosing speed alone.

Cadfael · Nov 30, 2017

Even DJ mentions "beware of anti-pot." A pheno that grows well, smells great, and is totally lacking in high.

Agree with Snook, that I have had phenos I thought were "meh" and then come into their own on the second grow out.

Record weights and find the best yield to taste. I always seem to find something that tastes slightly better, but yields less.

And all of this is subjective. Find what you like the best and enjoy. good luck and good hunting.

MJPassion · Nov 30, 2017

I sure wish I had kept a cut of this stanky ass flower I grew this last season.

In veg & most of the way through flower she was just meh...

At 7 weeks she started smelling like garlic & onions & she finished out as one of the stankiest varieties I've ever grown.
And her high is excellent too!

RB56 · Nov 30, 2017

Agree that culling females is the weak link in the plan. I would much prefer to pop only as many seeds as I can give a fair chance. Cull mails, give each female a chance. Select for the traits that are most important to you. Otherwise, you are wasting seeds and not increasing your chances of finding what you want - or don't know that you want it until you see it

meizzwang · Nov 30, 2017

The advice to keep all your females, grow them all out, and keep clones of each on the side in veg. is solid. Oftentimes, especially with new strains you haven't grown for many generations, you won't know which ones are the best until after you've harvested and sampled all the individuals.

positivity · Nov 30, 2017

nathalia said:
hey guys
to find the best pheno it's best growing out as many regular seeds as possible.
So I will grow (too) much plants in 1/2 gallon pots using 12/12 from seed.
After throwing out the boys, there will be still too much girls-
no space to bloom all because of bigger flower-pots: some girls will be killed by me

hunting for the best yielding pheno,
my plan is to pick out only the fastest girls & only flower out the first girls that have shown their sex (pre-flower) early.

what do you guys think about that?
good strategy to find the best yielder or has the speed of pre-flower nothing to say about final yield?

thank you so much u all got my love at this awesome forum !
nathalia <3

What if the best yielder has no smell and a bad taste?

I'd pick the ones with the most vigor and bud sites I suppose. Have not noticed a link between flower onset and yield myself. Onset is always so similar you'd be talking just a few days in most cases.
Say you had a sativa and indica hybrid. Indica types show first and grow 3' tall....sativa types show later and grow 10' tall. Which will probably yield more?

mushroombrew · Nov 30, 2017

Cadfael said:
Even DJ mentions "beware of anti-pot." A pheno that grows well, smells great, and is totally lacking in high.

Agree with Snook, that I have had phenos I thought were "meh" and then come into their own on the second grow out.

Record weights and find the best yield to taste. I always seem to find something that tastes slightly better, but yields less.

And all of this is subjective. Find what you like the best and enjoy. good luck and good hunting.

We used to call that weed "Pretendica"

nathalia · Nov 30, 2017

thank you guys all of you helped me so much what a lovely community

I will change the strategy for pheno hunt.
All females will get a fair chance to grow at least into 3rd week of flowering.

But keeping all ladies is only possible with small pots ( 1/2 gallon ). will that work?

My main goal is to find the pheno with the biggest main-bud as I always grow SOG no veg time & small pots (usually 3/4 gallon )
maybe in the future with a grow journal

tell me what you think guys. will I get meaningful results in 1/2 gallon pots to locate special phenos?
I know small pots=less yield but this round is only to find best yielding pheno.

nathalia <3

Limeygreen · Dec 1, 2017

Is the reason for half gallon pots to save on soil or to space concerns? For me I would say you can get different size pots that still hold 1 gallon of soil, taller but skinnier so depends if your space allows this or not height and square metre wise. Of course you will have less yield, to me it sounds like you already know the answer to your question so either start with less ladies and use normal size pot or sacrifice and use smaller, I personally would start less overall and do normal routine.

I know it sucks, takes more time but why not just keep things the same as normal practice and take your time to do it? No point in rushing, just causes corners to be cut, it can be done and done well sure, decide your threshold and don't look back at your decision until end results and re evaluate.

nathalia · Dec 1, 2017

Limeygreen said:
Is the reason for half gallon pots to save on soil or to space concerns? For me I would say you can get different size pots that still hold 1 gallon of soil, taller but skinnier so depends if your space allows this or not height and square metre wise. Of course you will have less yield, to me it sounds like you already know the answer to your question so either start with less ladies and use normal size pot or sacrifice and use smaller, I personally would start less overall and do normal routine.

heeey Limeygreen thank you

small pots because of space limits these 1/2 gallon pots are already skinny and very tall as they can be.
this round yield is not important the whole focus is on finding the best pheno. and with more plants there will be more special phenos to select from.
do you think I can still select with clear results in 1/2 gallon pots or will they all end up shitty?
I just have to look which pheno yield best no Problem if this round yield will be small.

nathalia <3

Mate Dave · Dec 1, 2017

I have an area that I can run 12/12 from first true leaf stage, you can plant to the depth of the stem & further reduce plant hight.

Planting a staggered pattern you can transfer interplanting before the harvest increasing turnround.

This works best with cubed line's or mono-hybrids. F1 hybrids also have scope in this area of cultivation if their phyllotaxy/phenotypes complement each other.

I would make a bed & not use pots, my initial 'fiddlearound' has learnt me lots, essentially it will remove or elevate some circumstantial evidence & you can treat a bed better then you can repotting all the progeny & it will prevent 'Bolting/etiolation from confind space.

Make a propagation bed & cultivation bed.

Sowing out enough for 2 rooms if your breeding them fast as you can take clones of the best, move the males and keep the genes of the best. Selecting for dioecy Resin content & you can select for stature even before you pick the flower or the Secondary metabolites within the phenotypes. You can get through lots of seeds really fast. technically Op of the population with selection for traits for spefic environmental cultivation.

I see this as maximum productivity & yeild whilst breeding.

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