Rollin' logs - a new way to cure your weed

log roller · Nov 10, 2017

mushroombrew said:
I am still not sure what the benefit is?

Like the "gold" varieties of old. The buds are left on the plant and they stop watering. The buds dry "on the vine" and turn golden yellow. But it's mainly a novelty.

I am just not sure why you would do this to quality smoke?

Not trying to piss on your parade I just think it is an odd practice?

If you have not yet tried cobbing, follow Tangwena's thread and try it. Upon smoking the finished product you will immediately see what the point is. And then you'll wish you had put the whole plant in the cob, rather than just a small piece. :tiphat:

McKush · Nov 10, 2017

very interesting read log roller! keep up the good work.

McKush · Nov 10, 2017

mushroombrew said:
I am still not sure what the benefit is?

Like the "gold" varieties of old. The buds are left on the plant and they stop watering. The buds dry "on the vine" and turn golden yellow. But it's mainly a novelty.

I am just not sure why you would do this to quality smoke?

Not trying to piss on your parade I just think it is an odd practice?

read the link in log rollers first post from start to finish as was suggested.

I only grow anymore so I can cob it myself because it makes "quality smoke" better than it was before...

like Tang and others, i have smoked since the 70's. once i learned about cobs, and tried it myself, thats all i want.

mushroombrew · Nov 10, 2017

log roller said:
If you have not yet tried cobbing, follow Tangwena's thread and try it. Upon smoking the finished product you will immediately see what the point is. And then you'll wish you had put the whole plant in the cob, rather than just a small piece.

I was more interested in your opinion. Taste? Smell?

stellarjay · Nov 10, 2017

log roller, I tip my hat towards you! I look forward to following your thread like I follow Tangwena's thread. Perhaps one day I too shall build a log roller oven. It looks like fun! I really appreciate you sharing all the nuances of your endeavors, the good and the not so good. You are doing EXCELLENT work!

log roller · Nov 11, 2017

mushroombrew said:
I was more interested in your opinion. Taste? Smell?

When the buds are actively steamed, like in my setup in the beginning before I realized the importance of keeping humidity down but was unable to do so, it's clear that some terpenes are easily carried away whereas others are left behind. The normal weed 'skunk' smell is one that gets lifted away, billowing out into the air in clouds of steam, whereas the 'mint' smell was left behind in one pheno that had it. I would think with a lower humidity level with no water condensing on the buds or steam coming out the barrel, the terpene stripping would be less intense, however, some terpenes are more volatile than others so there will be a definite change of smell and taste.

It's been 10 months and many, many bowls of weed since this experiment was conducted, and a large part of the process was the initial trial and error. I also did not take detailed notes of the parts that went right, because I wasn't intending to share this method until it was fully dialed in, so my memory is a bit foggy on some things. Certain circumstances have prevented me from doing any further experimenting on this for the moment, but I found these pictures and thought it would be best to go ahead and share, in the hopes it will inspire others to work on the process and help perfect it.

From what I do remember, the buds took on a mild earthy note, without any kind of loud pronounced smell. The taste was excellent, as an noted, the cobs made from #9 had a nice minty smell.

As for why someone would want to do this, well, when you hold one of these logs in your hand and also smoke it, then you will understand far better than any paragraphs of mine can explain. There are several good reasons to make logs instead of curing cannabis in other ways. And there are also specific situations where the 'traditional' ways would be better.

Let's say I'm a grower, with a big warehouse full of bud, or a field of large plants all finishing at the same time. What is the most labor intensive (and therefore expensive) process in cannabis farming? Trimming, of course. The whole scene with a crew of guys sitting around in a room all day with scissors is going the way of the dodo bird, because it's way too expensive and there are better ways of doing things. This is one of them.

With this method you don't have to trim nearly as much; just large and small fan leaf removal is really all you have to do. Nobody is going to sweat a little sugar leaf being in their log. When done right (and I'm telling you, the results pictured so far are not the best you can get) it will not hurt the appearance or smoke quality in the least. Not only does that save on labor, but less material goes to waste also. You no longer need a hash pile, just a compost pile.

Towards the end I accidentally found a trick that works wonders for improving bud appearance. The heat and steam of this process causes the bud tissue to swell and its structure to break down a bit, which makes the leaf material soft and pliable. Trimming in this state is actually much easier, if one wanted to do any. Here's the trick: take the whole branch and dip it down in a bucket of water, and pull it out. The sugar leaves will plaster themselves to the sides of the buds, smoothing out the bud surface instead of leaves sticking out everywhere as is usual. This improves bud appearance.

Now you cut the buds off the branches, pile them up, and roll them into a log. When rolled, the soft, pliable plant material plus presence of hot resin on the leaves causes the buds to glue themselves together, forming the smooth, uniform log shape you see pictured. You can also easily compress the log to the exact density you desire, while rolling. The finished log, when dried, is nice and spongy and holds itself together well. When you start pulling pieces off, it feels sort of like pullng apart a cotton ball. It has a really nice 'feel' to it.

Now look at one of the problems that a dispensary for example faces, or other pot retailer. The budtenders have to weigh out each sale, which is a laborous and error prone process, vulnerable to dishonesty. What if the "weighing and packaging" could be done by machine, automatically, at the factory? Other than the mild amount of trimming required, the log rolling process can be (and will be) completely automated, producing logs of exactly the same size, shape, and weight.

The half-log that you see pictured is exactly one ounce of bud, compressed lightly, broken off from a larger log. Look how how easy it is to hold, store, and handle. A machine could produce standard-sized logs of a specific weight day in and day out, in whatever shape desired; log, brick, or something else. And it would be perfectly smooth and uniform, very presentable.

Finally, from the standpoint of a smoker, this process improves the smoke quality considerably. The weed burns better, tastes great, and most importantly, has a significantly improved effect over the raw weed. The log is an easy way to store and handle the weed, as mentioned. And with all the cost savings along the production chain, logs will be cheaper also.

It's one of those rare situations where everybody wins. That's why I fully expect this idea to catch on like wildfire, once we get past the initial doubting and get people to try this for themselves.

Not long after the rosin extraction thread was started, one reportedly could not find a single hair iron in any thrift store in all of southern California. That goes to show the power of these forums to reach people in the cannabis world. I fully expect to see empty 55 gallon drums disappearing off of empty lots and being repurposed to weed curing chambers. We're only talking maybe $100 here at the most to get into the log rolling game. Do not disappoint me, Icmag. Those of you who jump on this this thing early will be happy you did.

:smoke:

mushroombrew · Nov 11, 2017

Thank you for taking the time to post that!

Boyd Crowder · Nov 11, 2017

umm hurpity durps
not sure if i could sell turds in my market fam
i mean really bro, cmon, my people would look at me like im crazy if i busted this out

BUT
ima try the malawi cob method on some headstash for funsies cause it looks like fun to play with and whatnot, but until i see some actual science, you never gonna get me to believe you are increasing potency with ANY type of cure let alone one that destroys the color, shape and consistency of flowers

but im just sayin -

tossing some good green topshelf buds in a 50 gallon burn barrel isnt gonna go over real well in the usa

please dont read anything into this , im not being contrary or knockin your hustle or you or anyone who likes this method
by all means do you.

looks interesting but ill stick to using 55 gallon drums for resevoirs for now

pinkus · Nov 11, 2017

Tangwena said:
My friend history is being made here remember people laughed at Columbus too

Columbus wasn't the first. Y'all aren't either. I do applaud your efforts, but not your lack of humor. :tiphat:

it IS just like a BBQ guy. :shooty:

Lighten up and eat a friggin log yo.

stellarjay · Nov 12, 2017

log roller said:
With this method you don't have to trim nearly as much; just large and small fan leaf removal is really all you have to do. Nobody is going to sweat a little sugar leaf being in their log. When done right (and I'm telling you, the results pictured so far are not the best you can get) it will not hurt the appearance or smoke quality in the least. Not only does that save on labor, but less material goes to waste also. You no longer need a hash pile, just a compost pile.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

Tangwena · Nov 12, 2017

pinkus said:
Columbus wasn't the first. Y'all aren't either. I do applaud your efforts, but not your lack of humor.

it IS just like a BBQ guy. Lighten up and eat a friggin log yo.

Thanks for your input my friend its def not for you then.
Laughing at people is not my thing I prefer to laugh with people it gets better results.
I feel for anyone not following blindly behind the herd.

pinkus · Nov 12, 2017

Tangwena said:
Thanks for your input my friend its def not for you then.
Laughing at people is not my thing I prefer to laugh with people it gets better results.
I feel for anyone not following blindly behind the herd.

I and he are laughing with you.

eat the friggin log yo. :tiphat:

log roller · Nov 12, 2017

Boyd Crowder said:
not sure if i could sell turds in my market fam

Sorry about your luck.

i mean really bro, cmon, my people would look at me like im crazy if i busted this out

Fortunately for the rest of the entire world, such as peeps in you know, "flyover country", we're not nearly as snobbish and closed minded about weed. It wasn't too long ago in the South that most folks were smoking $50-100 seeded brick O's and being glad they had it. Even today, few in the rural areas have really ever sampled anything other than "beaster" type stuff that "your people" would turn up their nose at.

Even if "high grade" herb was common here, it may surprise you to learn that much of the world can't afford to always be dropping $200-300+ an O to stay high. Fortunately for them, there are people like me in the world, who will not rest until pounds are $500 or less.

....Uh oh. Hope you're not the type who gets upset at the thought of not raking in $2000+/lb on easy street from now until eternity, "fam".

BUT
ima try the malawi cob method on some headstash for funsies cause it looks like fun to play with and whatnot, but until i see some actual science, you never gonna get me to believe you are increasing potency with ANY type of cure let alone one that destroys the color, shape and consistency of flowers

My condolences. Your lack of imagination is a mental handicap, that will now and forevermore prevent you from ever being a part of bleeding-edge anything, doomed to always be following in others' footsteps.

Well, I guess this thread isn't really for you, then. This thread is for the trailblazers, the mavericks, the future industry leaders. We'll understand if you choose to bow out and find another thread that's more your speed. (Maybe the "four words game"?)

but im just sayin - tossing some good green topshelf buds in a 50 gallon burn barrel isnt gonna go over real well in the usa

I don't think you understand the USA quite as well as you think you do...

log roller · Nov 12, 2017

Found a good publication from the University of Georgia titled, "Harvesting and Curing Flue-Cured Tobacco." Some very good information in here that I think is directly applicable to us. There's also a very helpful chart outlining what the temp and humidity needs to be, with wet and dry bulb thermometer readings, at all steps of the process. Seems you start around 95* and high humidity (95%+) to begin with, then slowly increase temperature in steps while allowing the humidity to reduce, finishing the coloring around 135* and then progressing to drying (colorset) which finishes after a period at 165*.

Actually, in the beginning while still working the bugs out, when I first attempted to leave the barrel going overnight at about 120*, the water drip clogged some time in the night up due to some debris in the tank, causing the temperature to rise and humidity to drop. By the next morning the temp had climbed to 160-something degrees and the barrel dried out. In the process the buds turned completely brown, a deep rich caramel type color. They had burnt smell also which I think was due to the cherry chips (laying on top of the lava rocks) getting too hot and igniting, which actually smoked the buds. It seemed the buds were ruined but they actually turned out to be some really great smoke! So it seems that accidental failure turns out to be more the way it's supposed to be done. When done properly, with better process control, the results should be similar without any burnt smell at all.

Here's the text:

CURING

Historically, tobacco curing has been considered an art. Since the use of bulk barns, growers have much more control over the processes. Management skills include understanding the principles of controlling airflow, temperature and humidity in a controlled environment.

Purpose of Curing -- Curing develops and preserves the potential quality, flavor and aroma of tobacco. Once the tobacco is in the curing barn, make a concerted effort to bring the tobacco to a brilliant color (lemon orange). Once you have the desired color, dry the leaf to preserve that color.

Color is important. It indicates that certain chemical changes have taken place, and it is used as an index of leaf quality. Industry representatives estimate that 75 percent of the market value of the leaf is based on the color. The objectives are to maintain life in the leaf until biological processes are completed (yellowing phase). During this phase starch is converted to sugar. Next, stop bio*chemical activities by removing leaf moisture (leaf drying). Finally preserve the leaf by drying the stem.

Closely monitor tobacco throughout the curing process for temperature, humidity and color. Look through observation ports regularly to check the wet-bulb, dry-bulb thermometers and color changes taking place. Open the loading doors carefully because this may release too much moisture and harm the curing process, especially during yellowing. For updraft barns, place the dry-bulb thermometer under the tobacco near an observation port so you won't need to open the door. Place it in between racks or on top of the tobacco for a more accurate indication of wet-bulb temperature. Reverse location of thermometers when using down-draft barns.

Temperature Advance Schedule -- There is considerable variance in advancing the temperature depending on the condition of the tobacco. A wet-bulb, dry-bulb temperature schedule (Figure 1) is effective with mature, good quality tobacco.

Humidity -- During the yellowing and leaf-drying phases, humidity control is essential. The relative humidity drops as the curing advances. Control the humidity by adjusting the fresh air exchange rate with the vent system. By controlling the humidity, the coloring time may be extended or shortened to get the most desirable color. If the tobacco is drying too fast (drying before yellowing), close the vents. On the other hand, opening the vents will speed drying.

Remember a couple of points about air and humidity: (1) Air at higher temperature has more drying potential at the same relative humidity. (2) At a constant relative humidity, 105°F air will hold twice as much water as air at a temperature of 85°F.

Using Wet-Bulb, Dry-Bulb Thermometers -- The wet-bulb thermometer measures the temperature of the leaf during the early stages of cure; the dry-bulb thermometer measures air temperature. Most growers use the dry-bulb thermometer, but you also need a wet-bulb thermometer. Since the humidity as well as the dry-bulb temperature must be controlled, a wet-bulb thermometer indicates when adjustments in the vents are necessary. Don't use thermo*stats as thermometers. They may not be calibrated to sense the
same temperatures as thermometers. You can buy wet-bulb thermometers at a local fuel supply dealer, or you can make one at a fraction of the cost. A homemade wet-bulb thermometer designed especially for bulk tobacco barns can be used.

The relationship between the wet-bulb and the dry-bulb temperatures determines the relative humidity within the barn. The closer the wet-bulb temperature is to the dry-bulb temperature, the higher the relative humidity. The relative humidity within the barn determines the leaf's rate of drying. The lower the humidity, the faster the leaf dries; the higher the humidity, the slower the leaf dries. Maintaining the proper wet-bulb temperature not only results in the best possible cures but also minimizes the amount of fuel needed to cure the tobacco.

Advancing Temperatures during Yellowing -- Advancing the dry-bulb temperature and wet-bulb temperature in relation to each other is a critical feature of curing. When starting a barn close air intake dampers before the heater is turned on. Turn the heater on and raise the temperature to the yellowing range (Figure 1) gradually. Don't raise the temperature more than SOF at anyone jump. Allow about 30 minutes between temperature rises so curing air can become humid.

Yellowing Considerations -- Curing each barn of tobacco as the season progresses requires adjustments in the curing schedule. For example, tobacco grown under varying climatic and field conditions calls for different yellowing schedules with dry-bulb temperatures varying from 9So to 10SoF and wet-bulb of 93° to 97°F.

After you harvest each barn of tobacco, decide the best way to yellow the tobacco. Consider the merits of the tobacco in the barn, such as leaf moisture content, maturity and thickness. Then make a decision at each step about how long to maintain a given temperature and humidity so the tobacco will complete its yellowing process. Failure to do this may result in dry leaf tips with a set green color. Tobacco with a high moisture content requires considerably more moisture removal before color setting than does droughty or low moisture tobacco.

Alter the yellowing schedule throughout the season as the tobacco varies from thin to thick and/or turgid to wilted tobacco with a minimum amount of moisture. For example, if you have immature, wet-weather or drought-grown tobacco, yellow it at the lower yellowing temperatures.

Length of Time Required for Yellowing -- Normal tobacco is yellowed at varying lengths of time, depending on the stalk position. For example, primings and lugs should be completely yellowed in 20 to 30 hours. On the other hand, upstalk tobacco may require 60 or more hours to obtain the desired color. You can improve the quality of certain varieties by extending the yellowing period. Certain varieties may sometimes yellow before starch converts to sugar. When this happens, the result may be pale, slick, immature tobacco.

Other Yellowing Suggestions -- Remove as much moisture aspossible during the yellowing phase of curing. With good tobacco, as much as 20 percent of the moisture can be removed during yellowing. When the yellowing phase is almost completed, the tobacco should show a good yellow color at the leaf tip with slight green-tinged colors running along the main stem and veins to the butt. The leaf tips and edges should begin to tuck and dry to a bright yellow.

When the tobacco throughout the barn reaches the desired color, increase temperature and rate of drying. At the end of yellowing, some wilting should have occurred. Avoid flash temperatures that can dry the leaf before yellowing is completed. This sets an undesirable green color.

Wilting -- Some wilting occurs before the end of yellowing at the 10SoF dry-bulb temperature, but most of the wilting should take place as the dry-bulb temperature advances from 110° to 118°F. The rate of temperature advance from 105*F to 110°F should be 1° to 1.5*F per hour and wet-bulb of 100°F. During the Wilting phase, the tobacco loosens considerably and the air can move through readily.

Do not advance the temperature beyond 118°F dry-bulb temperature until wilting is 100 percent complete.

Leaf Drying -- When the tobacco leaves have reached the desired yellow color and are thoroughly wilted, the leaf must be dried. The drying stage is critical because tobacco is sensitive to temperature change. Impatience to capture a good color often results in advancing the temperature too rapidly and producing a browning or barn scald. If the temperature is advanced too slowly, sponging may occur.

There must be positive control of airflow and temperature during leaf drying to prevent undesirable color in the cured leaf. To prevent sponging, dry the leaf as rapidly as possible, but not so rapidly as to cause scalding.

Wet-Bulb and Dry-Bulb Temperatures -- Maintain the wet-bulb temperature near 100°F during leaf drying. Once the tobacco is dry enough (30-40 percent of the moisture removed) to take dry-bulb readings above 135*F, the wet-bulb temperature is not critical to the quality of the cured leaf. Maintaining a wet-bulb temperature of 110°F or higher, however, tends to conserve fuel.

Stem Drying -- Advance the dry-bulb temperature from 135* to 165*F at a rate of 2° to 3°F per hour. Close dampers gradually during stem drying. Maintain a damper opening to hold wet-bulb temperature down to 110°F during the first 12 to 18 hours of stem drying. Dampers are usually closed completely about the time the leaf is completely dry and the temperature has reached 165°F. Stems should be killed out at a temperature of 165°F. Sugar caramelization will cause tobacco to turn red when the dry-bulb temperature is more than 165*F.

log roller · Nov 12, 2017

Error correction: In the article section "Wilting", the first sentence should read, "Some wilting occurs before the end of yellowing at the 105*F dry-bulb temperature, but [...]"

log roller · Nov 12, 2017

Based on this article, it seems the curing chamber really needs some vent holes installed, maybe down at the bottom just above the level of lava rocks, so that airflow can be adjusted to ensure correct humidity level!

Boyd Crowder · Nov 12, 2017

lol i guess you told me lol

im glad we have "trailblazers" here on IC who will gladly try new stuff to do to their weed
its interesting to read what you are doing

i dont have a single client who would buy weed done this way from me.

so i cant comment on your clientelle or the worlds tastes in weed curing
and if that makes me somhow any less of a supplier of medicine , ill accept that

Dog Star · Nov 12, 2017

Best processes are founded by some trial and mistake.. when mistake transforms
in a something best..

mine friend haved block of hash that was average potency,nothing significant..
and he keeped him close to water source,somehow hash was soaked a lot of
water and started to swell from this water and he was think that now he can
hit him in garbage as block was looked destroyed but we was tryed to smoke
him afterwards and encountered a potency was enlarge trifold and now we
haved a great hash that in beggings when was dry was very bland in potency..

never ever made this same experiment but i also dont have hash avaible close to self
so there wasnt chance either for repeating a same..

but am sure that hash was somehow transformed thru this soaking with water
as all folks commented same,they was all positive suprised..

hash head · Nov 13, 2017

the return of brick weed... I'm sure when you smell the strong smell leaving the plants you are losing your terps through steam distillation.. though at certain temperatures terpenes will change into different terpenes..

I've tried boiling mason jars before and the bud seemed to increase in potency greatly the first few times I smoked it as it seemed to have decarbed the buds and expressed the terpenes some.. though after opening the jar a few times seemed to lose smell rather quickly.. at first stronger smell then after a week or so much less than a jar that hadn't been heated..

I've considered boiling in vacuum bags as well and would be down to try this could be a nice comparison doing one bag boiled one not and see how they compare when you open them up a week later..

for this method I think vacuum sealing dried and trimmed buds and then boiling for say 15-20 minutes would be sufficient.

log roller · Nov 13, 2017

hash head said:
the return of brick weed... I'm sure when you smell the strong smell leaving the plants you are losing your terps through steam distillation..

Indeed. Steaming definitely strips out most of the terpenes. Doesn't seem to hurt the effects any though, indeed, the weed seems a lot stronger, with a sense of 'clarity' that is lacking in normal weed.

I've tried boiling mason jars before and the bud seemed to increase in potency greatly the first few times I smoked it as it seemed to have decarbed the buds and expressed the terpenes some.. though after opening the jar a few times seemed to lose smell rather quickly.. at first stronger smell then after a week or so much less than a jar that hadn't been heated..

How about this idea....maybe put a condensor above the barrel, condense and collect the terpene-rich water, then recycle it back into the barrel? Or concentrate the terpenes by removing water somehow (by distillation, or some other method) and soak the log with them afterward?

I've considered boiling in vacuum bags as well and would be down to try this could be a nice comparison doing one bag boiled one not and see how they compare when you open them up a week later..

for this method I think vacuum sealing dried and trimmed buds and then boiling for say 15-20 minutes would be sufficient.

Keep in mind that there seems to be more happening here than simple decarboxylation. With the process staying at lower temperatures (120-140*) than usual decarboxylation, it seems to work differently. Would be very interested to see the results of your experiment if you try it. :tiphat:

Rollin' logs - a new way to cure your weed

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