New Experimental Organic Hydro Technique!

Hey thanks for the advice and glad you like my construction.

I was planning on putting my Reclining Buddahs in the bubble box. I know what they are like and generally fall into 2 phenotypes: Shorter with sweet fat buds or taller, purple with longer, geranium smelling buds. Since i am growing from seed this is a lottery until they get switched to flower. I do get 99% female ratio which is great.

I could plant four and just rip out the two slowest plants or i could just plant 2... or i could do what you suggest and divide it into four. Although i couldnt get the plastic right to the bottom without squashing the bubblers...I do have 10litre ice cream tubs i use outdoors as hempy buckets that yield 4oz of buds. I could cut the bottom off and push onto the plants. But this would limit the space for each plant... maybe take it off halfway through flower?

I was thinking to just veg another 5 days in their current small pots. They have been vegging for a while but its been very slow. Roots just strating to peep out bottom and are just taking off now. I am very impressed with the growth. Very close internodes, thick stems and keeping nice and low. Been pinched once. Once they go in bubbling bio box gonna switch straight to flower and start training for scrog.

GreenThumbBumb said:

Hey nice job Silver Surfer, looks great. Hey DM i finally picked up some of the Organicare medium, pretty fluffy going to cut it with coco and perlite anyways. I wanted to get your opinion on 1 more thing before i started. Instead of using the blood meal i was going to try the Organicare slow release granules. They are OMRI and only about $5 for 1liter bag. Just wondering if you preferred blood meal for any reason other than it being a cheap available organic nitrogen supplement. Its made for coco or soil.
6-6-5 + 8%Ca
Fish meal, sulfate of potash, alfalfa meal, composted poultry litter, and seaweed(Ascophyllum nodosum) also contains 3% humic acid from leonardite.

Sounds like some great stuff to me, just wanted to get any thoughts you might have, and i know its just your opinion, so please share anything, thanks!

Click to expand...

Ahoy mate!

Sounds like you are right on track, the stuff you have available should make something good. The reason I favor blood meal is simply because of the preferable nute ratio for veg. Ideally you want three parts nitrogen bearing material to one part phosphate-bearing and one part potassium-bearing (3/1/1). Blood meal makes it easy to spike the nitrogen. Your mixes are all very complete and rather balanced. This means that they are a ratio of roughly 1/1/1 instead of 3/1/1. You will need an additive that will raise the nitrogen without impacting other stuff very much. Blood meal is usually 12-0-0 making it very well suited to the task. It is usually disfavored slightly because it provides very little water-soluable nitrogen making it 'slow release'. The OBBTs fix this a bit as the active biological action processes the raw organic matirial at much higher than usual speed. This is what makes the incubation period so important. The organicare slow-release stuff you proposed instead of blood meal sounds great but it again is very balanced (6-6-5). You can go ahead and use it but you need to spike the nitrogen. Additional blood meal or Fish Emulsion (5-1-1) will be neccessary.

Other than these nuances you sound amazingly on-target. Now you need to plumb some suitible containers and get some lava rock (or hydroton). Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

SilverSurfer_OG said:

Hey thanks for the advice and glad you like my construction.

I was planning on putting my Reclining Buddahs in the bubble box. I know what they are like and generally fall into 2 phenotypes: Shorter with sweet fat buds or taller, purple with longer, geranium smelling buds. Since i am growing from seed this is a lottery until they get switched to flower. I do get 99% female ratio which is great.

I could plant four and just rip out the two slowest plants or i could just plant 2... or i could do what you suggest and divide it into four. Although i couldn't get the plastic right to the bottom without squashing the bubblers...I do have 10litre ice cream tubs i use outdoors as hempy buckets that yield 4oz of buds. I could cut the bottom off and push onto the plants. But this would limit the space for each plant... maybe take it off halfway through flower?

I was thinking to just veg another 5 days in their current small pots. They have been vegging for a while but its been very slow. Roots just strating to peep out bottom and are just taking off now. I am very impressed with the growth. Very close internodes, thick stems and keeping nice and low. Been pinched once. Once they go in bubbling bio box gonna switch straight to flower and start training for scrog.

Click to expand...

Sounds excellent!!

Not sure about your ice cream tub separators idea but I'm glad you're willing to mess with root separation. If you are willing to cut down to just 2 plants in that container I have an idea:

Halve the tub by affixing a plastic sheet between the two closer sides so as to make two roughly-square cells out of your large rectangular container. Try to make it tight and completely seal them off from eachother. A little silicone goes a long way with these sorts of things. Plumb the resulting separate cell with its own overflow drain. You now have two separate and independent 10-15 gallon OBBTs! You already have two separate bubble devices and the dimensions of the tub really facilitate the mod. If you did this, you might stick one plant in per side after they've veged in their current containers for the additional week they are in right now. I would let them veg for one more week on top of that in their new home, maybe even two. Since you plan to ScrOG you can get aggressive with it. I like to go ahead and start weaving the tops of the plants into the screen late in veg and let them get started fanning out before flipping the switch to flower. Consistently use supercropping techniques on the main stem but let the sprouts that form at the leaf internodes stretch up until they can be woven themselves. You would get a whole lot of flexibility this way to the point where it would be practical to pilot two different breeds next to eachother while having the freedom to tweak the soil chemistry perfectly for each one.

This might be the best compromise based on all the stuff you have. I think from 2 to 4 plants would do nicely with that volume (given that their roots stay separated) and I really like the idea of 3 although that may be hard to make practical. The more plants you do the shorter the veg you will run. If you ran with 4 I would stick to your origional plan of flipping them into flower shortly after they are planted. 2 on the other hand I think would benefit from an extended veg as you will have the benefits of supercropping and ScrOG to restrict height while upping light usage and yield. You might go as much as 2 extra weeks of veg in the new bubble bath tubs if you go with 2 plants, especially if you decide to start the ScrOG training in veg (a benefit I think).

I definitely think that some form of root isolation would be worth the time and effort when it comes to predictability and yield. Even if the coverage of the separation isn't perfect that's fine. Letting the whole mess of separators sit 3/4 of an inch above the bottom of the tub so that each cell can share the bubblers would be fine. The majority of the medium will be separated and the plants can't interfere with eachother enough to cause problems when given only a small crack in clearance. Get that licked in whatever way you choose and I think you will see some stupendous results. I'm super-stoked to see the all-organic oxygen-boosted Reclining Buddha Buds! I'm already anticipating your posts regarding smoking impressions of the finished product

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Hey DM i have had my bucket sitting for a few days now right next to just a reg bucket of the same soil mix(its for my moms), the obbt has already developed a nice fuzzy haze across the top, while the reg bucket is just getting its first little patches, i think the obbt had some after the first day! So the air injection is def speeding things up. And you did say they should have a kinda gamy smell right. Do you stir the top of the soil or wait till you transplant into it, and then mix it up, or dont bother mixing at all. Should have my cheese in there next week.

Sounds wonderful GreenThumb!

That's the cool thing about the OBBTs, you can see the process go to work almost immidiately! Isn't it amazing the difference that a crappy little air-stone can make? The finished medium has a very unique smell, it is difficult to describe. The significance of the smell is that it changes. When you first mixed up the medium it just smelled like whatever organics you added to it. (mediums with blood meal or fish emulsion can be particularly odoriferous) If you keep smelling it at different stages over time you should notice that the blatant organic smells start to dissapear and the whole thing becomes different and more subtle. The variety of organic odors blend together and get weaker as they become captured by the mycylium network. All you are looking for specifically is a change and that is already obvious from the fuzz.

You have been doing well but this is critical: don't mix the finished medium. This is why I encourage getting all of the organics in at first and mixing the medium in the container that it will grow the plants out of. Turning over the soil will disturb the fungus and disrupt it's fibrous root network. It will spend a long time repairing itself if you break it up heavily. Now that the medium has been activated you must take care to handle it as little as possible. If you must move it try to do so by taking up the largest chunks possible and moving them together. Any organics that you have failed to pre-load will need to be added as a tea. Disturbing microbally active soil is a big no-no, this is why managing large fields of crops without tilling is becoming the new big thing amongst organic farmers. You must take care to treat the medium as what it now is: a living breathing creature. Or more exactly, a broad collection of creatures: a community. You are going to be raising more than just cannabis in these tubs, remember that it is in your best interest to keep them all happy!

Can't wait to hear about your progress GreenThumbBumb, I hope we'll get to see some pictures eventually. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

I can't wait to see more pics and comparison pics. I may not say much but I'm always around reading conversation here, I can't wait until my living situation changes this fall and I can give this a go!

Thanks for the tip about mixing it, i did mix my non obbt and i wish i hadn't, seems like it has to start all over again or atleast on the surface, my obbt on the other hand look incredible. Now instead of just the thick fuzzy fungi and got long strain like fungi covering the whole thing, it look like somebody sprayed fiber glass in there. As far as pics i dont ever post any of what i do but since there is no plant in the bucket ill post some pics of the 2 buckets for comparison tomorrow. My bucket is way over the top, its a converted bubbler bucket that i didnt what to disassemble incase i want to use it in the future. It has its hole 4in from botton, and drain at the botton, a sight tube that runs the entire length of the bucket, and a fill valve at the top that i just connected a tube that runs straight to the clay pebbles at the bottom, no real need for it but can hurt. Ill get back with some pics soon.

Salutations readers! I guess I should start referring to you all in the pluaral. Over 3000 views on this thread, I'm surprised so many people would take the time to wade through my massive WALL-O-TEXT. Thank you all for the interest, it makes my fondness for writing that much more rewarding.

GreenThumbBumb: Your results are typical of the method and are exactly what should be expected. Isn't it an extraordinary difference that is made by such a small tweak of the components? I love how your non-aerated medium is exactly the same in composition as the OBBT. It is based on two long-held and practiced methods (non-aerated organic mediums and handling [tilling] of the soil) which have been in use for cannabis cultivation throughout history. Given only the advantages of a ten dollar aquarium bubbler and some porous stone the OBBT is able to make microlife thrive in a way that so thoroughly surpasses traditional methods it is tough to believe until seen in person.

This, I think, is why close-minded gardeners who are deep-seated in a rigid growing method (example here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2452441&postcount=18) scoff at the concept of high-performance organic cultivation. By my description they think that the OBBT method might increase micro-life metabolism (and therefore organic nute effectiveness) by some sort of reasonable quantity, perhaps 50% or even double what an organic Hempy Bucket could do. The reality is that OBBTs are able to increase performance on these fronts exponentially!

GreenThumbBumb's observations confirm this. He describes a thick mat of fungal colonies totally covering the surface of the medium. This indicates full microbial capture of all organic material in the medium which means it is ready to safely support newborn seedlings. When he does plant, the fungal network will have tied to GTB's sprout within hours, perhaps minutes, of it being placed there. Now, let's all think about what exactly that means:

Normally a gardener mixes up his or her medium with a minimal of nutrition pre-added because too many free particles of nutrient-carrying matirial (organic or salt) will overwhelm, stunt and possibly kill very young seedlings. This normal gardener may then place a clone (which is nutrient starved as it's been subsisting only on water since it was cut) or a peat-pellet/rock-wool/whatever started seedling (which is nutrient starved as these starter mediums contain very little nutritional value) into this low-nutrient-content medium. Because it has so few nutrients and so little organic matter and such a small quantity of available oxygen a strong population of beneficial microbes is an impossibility. If this normal gardener is lucky he or she will have at least some beneficials gaining a foothold in the medium, but the unlucky ones will experience the wrath of pathogens. The new sprout starts to generate feathery roots and finally gets access to some decent nutrients. It is not a terrific leap of logic to realize that the only nutritional content that the plant gets at this point, and from then on is whatever these feathery roots are physically coming into contact with. Nevertheless, the gardener often gets on well as the plant starts to root deeply into the medium and it becomes safe for him or her to start adding additional nutrients. The miracle that is the cannabis plant manages fine and often can be made spectacular given the best of these circumstances.

Conversely: A new sprout (I always took babies straight out of the wet paper towels) grown with the OBBT method is greeted with substantially different surroundings. Having the incubation period means that the OBBT gardener can add concentrations of nutes up front that the average organic gardener would never dare in a medium consisting mostly of coco moss. Relatively rich amounts of nutritional content and hilarious quantities of available oxygen allow microbes to blast off as previously described. The fungal network completely saturates the medium and, as I said, ties itself to the new plant almost immediately. That means even the tiniest of seedlings with but only their round leaves present will have just as much access to the nutrient and moisture content of the medium as it will being a FULLY GROWN PLANT!!

Now of course, the new OBBT seedling is still limited by nature when it comes to how much of these resources it can absorb and utilize at a time. That said, there are massive performance gains to be had from being limited by this and this alone in an organic setting. As DalaiHempy continues to bang on about, this is traditionally an impossible thing to achieve. The reason plants fertilized every day with hydro nutes (as he perscribes) can grow so quickly is because they are under this circumstance. With a tolerable level of always-available mineral content in the medium the plant is limited only by it's genetics. This makes for astonishing growth rates. This is unachievable when using only organics using DalaiHempy's method. Side-by-side an organic HempyBucket will get it's ass kicked by one that is identical other than running concentrated mineral hydro nutes instead. DalaiHempy himself has very kindly produced an example of this:

Dalaihempy said:

Organic hydro

Hydo feed

Click to expand...

All this proves is that HempyBuckets are rubbish at utilizing organics. It certainly doesn't substantiate pure organics being incapable of matching mineral fertilizers in terms of growth and yield as ole DalaiHempy claims.

Put simply, it is impossible to 'push' a cannabis plant, or any plant for that matter, beyond what it's genetics program it to do. All we must do as gardeners to achieve 'maximum yield' is bring the quantity of available resources up to this threshold. After that there is nothing else but to allow nature to taker her course. Obviously, she'll do that whether this condition is met or not, but many of us would certainly like to achieve a level of performance near the top of what is possible to do. DalaiHempy manages this with his prescribed method and I do not doubt it for an instant. That said it certainly isn't the only way to do it. I think that the OBBT could do this too without having to rely on a sterile-ish medium or a daily watering regime. I think it can be done with almost exclusive use of organic nutrients and in a manner that is nearly as low-maintenance as growing a weenie little stick of bud out of a crappy pot of miracle grow.

GreenThumbBumb
Heh, sorry, might have got on a bit of a tangent there. You are sounding right on track but I have one caveat regarding your setup. You mention a feeder tube much like those found on DWC rigs that plumbs right down to the bath. I would not recommend adding organic nutrient teas to the OBBT this way. If you are hand-watering you should sprinkle all fert-water evenly across the top of the pearlite-capped medium. The active osmosis caused by the bubbler would certainly keep things going fine if you used the feeder tube. All moisture, and therefore water-soluble nutrients, will eventually make its way up into the medium until the bath dries up. That said, organic ferts tend to carry an awful lot of water insoluble nutrients as well. Adding nute water to the top of the medium means that most of these solid particles will get caught in the spongy layer of coco before making it to the bath. That allows the active microbial population to attack these particles directly which will drastically reduce the amount of time it takes for those stubborn nutrients to be available to the plants. This 'break down' period is what causes organic HempyBuckets to be inferior to mineral-fertilized ones and is why DalaiHempy likes to flip out on me. It must have been incredibly frustrating for him to produce sufficient nutrient levels with organics only to see them continually outperformed by salt nutes. I can totally see why this would have created some bitterness in him which causes him to lash out at my suggestions.

With super-active micro-life on our side the break down period of water insoluble organic nutrients becomes negligible. The metabolisms of the microbes are able to far outstrip any plant's ability to take up the nutes made available. This is the magic of the OBBT and I hope to hear much more from you guys about what it can do for cannabis. You sound right on track GreenThumbBumb, I know your feeder tube might make things a bit more convenient but please consider the use of an old-fashioned sprinkly watering can. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

High guys

I have my system up and running with 2 plants in there for 2 days or so. Too soon to report much but they look happy enough. I did manage to get some white/grey fuzz in patches on the soil and it smells real nice... dont think its the wonder stuff mychorz. but maybe on the right track... havto plumb in a bottom tap to take ph readings.

Computer is down at mo so no pics but hope to be up again soon.

So i just feed as normal around the plant with my liquid ferts and teas?

Cheers!!!

Thanks for the update Silver Surfer!

Sounds like your fungal colonies are not as aggressive as GTB's. This is to be expected as you got your fungi from natural sources as opposed to powdered spores. Because of this your new plants will not have quite as much access to the moisture/nutritional content of the soil as GTB's when he sticks some plants in. Given how large your starter plants are though this is fine. Having a strong fungal network is important, but even more vital is that you've got lots of beneficial bacteria. That is made evident by the change in smell you experienced.

Home-cultured Lacto B. is the dog's danglies and is far and away one of the most aggressive, useful and beneficial bacterial additives that a grower can use. I am currently utilizing my own Lacto B. cultures in an aquaponic-esque compost pond. They are vicious! We had one of the little goldfish living in it die and it's body was dissolved completely in a matter of hours. Two days ago I swatted a massive three-inch-long Bulldog Hornet into the pond. He was too big for our little fish to eat, but yesterday he stopped floating and sank to the bottom. Today he popped back up to the top. He looked just like he did when I tossed him in there, but when I plucked him from the water I found that the only thing left of him was his exoskeleton! He'd been completely hollowed out by the furious bacteria colonies in the water! I've got him sitting on my desk now, he's quite the display piece!

Did you ever end up going with some kind of separator regime to keep the root zones of your two plants apart? I still think that common-tub OBBT grows may develop strangulation issues later on in the grow. Here's hoping that you get good results either way!

Yes, you fertilize the OBBTs just like you might any hand-watered medium-based grow. I was explaining to GTB that this is important as any water insoluable nutrient particles floating around in your teas will get captured by the medium and attacked by the local bacteria. I encourage the use of pre-oxygenated teas. The chlorine found in tap water is very bad for microbes and bubbling it for a while after adding the nutes but before using it will eliminate that chemical and stimulate bacterial development before the nutes even hit the soil!

My only other warning is to be cautions with nutrient levels. OBBTs are incredibly nute efficient, more so than any other grow style I have yet experienced. The speed at which the plants are gonna start growing once you go to flower will make it seem necessary to use excessive nutrients. DON'T! I've never found the need to fertilize more than once every two weeks even while witnessing some of the most rapid growth I've ever seen in person. Granted, I've always used a foliar hormone treatment on the plants throughout their lives that contains some nutritional value via liquid kelp. If you don't do this you may want to fertilize a bit more often than I did, but not by much.

Sounds like you're right on track Silver Surfer, can't wait till you get your PC fixed so we can see some pics! Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Thanks mate!

Yes i have seperated the box in two with 3 sides of my icecream tubs cut off. They fit together quite snugly and form a fairly good barrier between the two sides.

Lacto B rocks!

Stupendous!

You had me a bit worried there but with that done all should be well. It won't be long before you start seeing the results. Is this large OBBT the only thing you're running at the moment? Got anything else going to use for comparison? Can't wait to see some more pictures either way.

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

How far above the water line should the medium be? I'm just wondering how the medium gets watered if it never actually touches the water. Sorry for being so dense, but I'm just trying to picture it in my mind.

Hey DM, I'm in! I just harvested my first grow. Before starting my first crop, I read hundred of threads, thousands of posts. I see the benefits of propagating a Microherd and did the best I could. I started a worm bin as soon as I knew that Bio was the way, so I could make my own Teas. Using 3.5 gal. buckets I cut holes for drainage and AIR. My gpw was .64 off a 1000w vertical w Cooltube.

As I begin again, a little evaluation of what I learned and how to improve had me wondering about increasing AIR supply to my medium. I stumbled upon your threads last night and had to read them through!

New plans...create OBB's out of 5 gal buckets. 8 of 'em. If I use 4" of Hydroton, 8" organic medium, then 2" of Perlite topper, how much air flow to each site should I supply. What type of air stone do you use, that wont plug up with all that biology in the bottom of the mix? I can't afford 8 Ceramic Diffusers. How 'bout a 6" airstone.

Thanks in advance, RVW

Interest in this silly WALL-O-TEXT continues. I am overjoyed.

Thurston Howell said:

How far above the water line should the medium be? I'm just wondering how the medium gets watered if it never actually touches the water. Sorry for being so dense, but I'm just trying to picture it in my mind.

Click to expand...

The medium sits as close to 'on' the water line as possible without actually being submerged at all. You never want any part of the medium to be consistently under water. Though the medium does not 'touch' the water in any way it stays completely moist until the bath has gone dry. This is active wicking, with the water being driven from the area of high moisture (the bath) to an area of lower moisture (the medium/pearlite cap/outside air, in that order). The water is just hitching a ride on the passing air being pushed through the stone. ALL water-soluable nutrients will be carried up by this process.

As organic nutes are added a quantity of water in-soluable nutrient-bearing matirial gets added. It settles in the medium and the bath. Because of all the air these organic substances are quickly attacked and matabolized by strong aerobic bacteria (especially if you've done a Lacto Bactilli culture), release the stored nutes in a purified water-soluable form and become avaliable to the plant. It is all driven by active osmosis which comes from the introduction of the bubbler. The medium never actually has to 'touch' the bath at all in order to eventually use all of it's mostiure.

RipVanWeed said:

Hey DM, I'm in! I just harvested my first grow. Before starting my first crop, I read hundred of threads, thousands of posts. I see the benefits of propagating a Microherd and did the best I could. I started a worm bin as soon as I knew that Bio was the way, so I could make my own Teas. Using 3.5 gal. buckets I cut holes for drainage and AIR. My gpw was .64 off a 1000w vertical w Cooltube.

As I begin again, a little evaluation of what I learned and how to improve had me wondering about increasing AIR supply to my medium. I stumbled upon your threads last night and had to read them through!

New plans...create OBB's out of 5 gal buckets. 8 of 'em. If I use 4" of Hydroton, 8" organic medium, then 2" of Perlite topper, how much air flow to each site should I supply. What type of air stone do you use, that wont plug up with all that biology in the bottom of the mix? I can't afford 8 Ceramic Diffusers. How 'bout a 6" airstone.

Thanks in advance, RVW

Click to expand...

Huzzah!

Very pleased to have you on board Rip, the more growers giving this a shot the happier I will be!

You seem to have gotten the point of the OBBT right off the bat, no real problems with your acertation of the method that I see as of now. You raise excellent questions.

Air flow does not need to be huge, certainly not as much as an equivilent-sized DWC bucket. Remember that even in a 5 gallon container an OBBT prolly doesn't carry a lot more than 1 gallon of water. Even wuss-ass bubblers are rated to keep a 50 gallon aquarium fully oxygenated. You may want to go a little bigger to make enough pressure to defeat the T-fittings you may use to split the line for all your buckets. A modest amount of pumped air will suffice.

The DWC gardeners seem to have a lot of trouble when it comes to roots clogging their air stones. They've been very excited about this micro-perforated laytex hose stuff because it resists this problem.

I'm familiar with the issue and it caused me some irritation in my hydro days. I came to just buy a regular cheap 12" air stone, plug it in and run air through it, and then paint it with spin-out. The air pushing through would keep it from clogging and the resulting coating worked wonders against the clogs.

Thing is though, this is unneccessary for the OBBTs. There is a ton of rock down there for the roots to grab onto and they seem happy to just strangle them and leave the air stone alone. I ran a 5-month long set of indeterminite tomato vines out of a couple OBBTs. Upon removing the root mass the rocks where all siezed up into one solid mass by the roots, but the air stone flopped right out. The roots hadn't grabbed onto the untreated stone at all, much to my surprise.

I would just go with a decent-flow 6 inch stone for a 5 gallon round bucket (I prefer 12 inch stones in narrower square tubs) as you assumed. Teamed with a half-way decent air pump that should be more than pleanty.

Stoked to have more gardeners on board, look forward to hearing about your progress. Love pictures as always. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Hey DrunkMess,

What do you suggest I use on top of the bucket, or is the layer of Perlite enough? I have lids and am just wondering if I should cut'em to make covers?

My local Lowe's don't carry Bio-Tone, so I bought some MycoMadness Soluble. Contains 18 mycos, 19 bene.bacs., and 2 trichoderma species.

Today I'll be fabbing up those buckets, Hope to get the medium cooking by this afternoon. Will a dim corner of my warm garage be OK for the start up of all the biology? 65dgs low/92dgs high. I could throw the lids on the buckets and just prop them open to pass air?

RVW

The pearlite cap is highly functional.

I would not recommend a solid lid for the OBBTs. There is constant air flow through the tubs. The point is for oxygen diffusion to be even and complete throughout the medium. The pearlite cap allows the air to diffuse nicely, it doesn't need to concentrate into one spot in order to make it back out of tub. This lets the air out at a steady all-over rate. Puting a lid on the thing would be counter-productive to this purpose.

The thick pearlite layer lets all the air out while holding most of the moisture in. Even without a lid the OBBTs have surprisingly little evaporation leak. Low moisture losses to start with make a lid unnecessary.

Your MycoMadness should be pleanty! That should be more than enough variety, though you still might consider doing a home-made bacteria culture like jaykush's Lacto Bactilli instructional. Bacteria cultured this way will be native to your area and much more effective at fighting pathogens.

Those temps should be fine although that is a little warm to be growing the ganjas at. I assume you will move them once finished incubating. Keep the tubs lidless and fill the reservoir and run the bubblers as you will when plants are in it. Sounds like you are otherwise right on track

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

DM,
Thank you for your help.
At this point I would like to ask some ?'s about how to "run" the system. In your last post you said to fill the rez and run the bubblers. I have been thinking that each bucket would be independant. By rez do you mean the bottom 4" of hydroton?
I foresee hand sprinkling water, tea's , and nutes over the perlite, eh?
Can I get more on your feed, starve,quench regimen?
Assembling this stuff starting now, I'll take pic's for you.
RipVanWeed

RipVanWeed said:

DM,
Thank you for your help.
At this point I would like to ask some ?'s about how to "run" the system. In your last post you said to fill the rez and run the bubblers. I have been thinking that each bucket would be independant. By rez do you mean the bottom 4" of hydroton?

Click to expand...

Yes! OBBTs are designed to be completely autonomous. You can run 1 or 100 but as of now there are only provisions in my design for unlinked individual tubs. Each tub can run its own feed/starve schedule which allows you to keep many different breeds of plants without having to sacrifice yield or blow holes in your timetable.

The closest thing the OBBTs have to a reservoir is the rock-filled 'bath' down at the bottom. This is why I make mention of a sight tube in the drawing on this thread. It is neccessary as there isn't really any other way to tell how much water is left.

If you look carefully you will actually find all of the elements of full-blown hydro in the OBBT design. A resivoir, oxygen injection, overflow drain and a spongey medium. Very similar to DWC and drip-style coir growing but just arranged to maximize the benefits of helpful microbes.

RipVanWeed said:

DM,
I foresee hand sprinkling water, tea's , and nutes over the perlite, eh?
Can I get more on your feed, starve,quench regimen?
Assembling this stuff starting now, I'll take pic's for you.
RipVanWeed

Click to expand...

The feeding regime with the OBBTs is ery straightforward. Organic teas (and a pinch of salt nutes sometimes) are sprinkled evenly over the top a-la-HempyBucket. Your results will vary depending on how thirsty your plants are, but I've found that you will generally be watering on a weekly basis and feeding every 2 weeks. The level indicator is vital for keeping track of this. OBBTs are much lower maintinence than the majority of agressive grow styles but that just means care must be taken to see that the few feedings that do happen are done right. I explained the basic regime earlier in this thread, although you could certainly be forgiven for not finding it buried in this WALL-O-TEXT:

*quote*

As you can see there are two drains. An always open overflow (with perhaps-unnecessary U-bend) and then a dump valve. This allows me to hand-water with nutrient teas specific for each individual plant (this is why I don't go drip). Long-flowering and short-flowering plants can live in harmony as you feed and starve them based on their own needs. I run a flush-starve-and feed cycle not unlike many high-po hydro enthusiasts. Up through veg, strech, sexing and the first half of flower I just hand water letting the over-flow valve do its work. Then in the second half of flower I will crack open the dump valve and run quite a bit (5 gallons, prolly more) of water through the medium. This is the flush, it rinses off any residual salts and other build-up from fertilizing. Close the dump valve, fill the reservoir with clean water (no nutes yet) and wait. With hydro it is similar. After the flush the roots are left to sit in nutrient-free water. They get sad VERY rapidly, the grower must respond by draining the nutrint-less water and then nailing the plants with strong flowering nutes within around 48 hours.

It takes a little longer with organic bubble tubs. I rinse the medium heavily and then let them sit in the clean water until they've 'drank' all of the moisture from the reservoir (takes about a week for me). Over the course of that week signs of very mild nutrient deficiency tend to show and I let them go dry for a little while so that they get a bit sad like with hydro starvation. Then, nail them with happy flowering nutes. Wash, rinse, repeat. This works out amazingly for harvest. You put them into a final flush and starve cycle, but you never snap them out of it. The Medium goes dry and the mycylem network clings to a final percentage of moisture, slowly feeding a life-line to the plants as they linger on for a week or more. The stems wither up, all fan leaves and even large lower bud leaves shrink up and drop off, the chlorophyll starts to break down and the buds enter the beginning stages of drying/curing. This takes weeks out of drying time and reduces the amount of time it takes to get the buds to be happy (not sweat) in the curing jars while eliminating starches and other not-THC that would otherwise never come out until you smoked the bud.

*End Quote*

I find that there is usually enough time to have two full flushing cycles during the second half of flower. Some growers like to start flushing earlier in the flower phase but I have only ever seen benefits of flushing for the OBBTs in the second half. This part of flower is where the plants have more or less stopped branching and are making very little verticle growth. We're talking about the 'budswell' stage here. Getting the girls dry and hungry before hitting them with their nutes (the most potent nutes used in the whole grow, I use a mixture of bat guano and suber bloom) during this stage has massive positive effects on yield. This is one of the reasons hydro growers get budmass often thought unobtainable to organic/medium growers. Having enough control to run a starve regime usually means running hydro, but in this case we get the best of both worlds.

As for specific nute formulations I can be of much help but you will have to take my brand of advice. The OBBTs need the majority of their nutes from organic sources. I much prefer to use pure powdered organic constituents which tend to have a low rate of water-soluability and contain no preservatives or buffing agents. This makes them some of the toughest nutes of all to use properly, nearly every gardener I've seen on this site doesn't get what they are for.

Many of the organic faithful here on ICmag prefer what I call designer liquid nutes. This is like bottled Fox Farm or GH Flora or that other stuff. These nutes are pre-mixed and very water-soluable; great for hydro rigs. They work really well but I don't like them. They are chock full of preservatives and buffing agents along with often being proprietary in their makeup.

Liquid designer organics are fine but are not particularly well-suited to the OBBT design. With my style of tubs a very large proportion of the nutes are mixed in up front. They get combined with the medium when it is first mixed together and you will never add more of them. The nute levels in an OBBT medium would outright kill any young plants when used with most grow methods. The trick with the OBBTs is the incubation period. With the medium fully captured by the fungal root network you can start with massive nute levels without concern for your babies. Sprouts are treated to simply unheard of levels of moisture and nutrition which are all made immidiately avaliable due to the strong mycelium network. This stage is where OBBTs really shine, for early veg I think they beat every other method out there hands-down.

If you want specific formulations this is what I ran:

Veg nutes (all pre-loaded):
Blood meal (1 cup per five gallons) [12-0-0]
Kelp Meal (aschophylum nodosum specifically, 3 cups per five gallons) [1-0-2 plus insane traces]
Bio Tone Starter Plus (2 cups per 5 gallons) [3-4-3 plus magnesium and traces]
Fast Acting Lime (2 tablespoons per 5 gallons) [100% calcium]
Epsom salts (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons) [80% sulfur 20% magnesium]

Organic Flower nutes (delivered as a tea):
1/2 cup bat guano [0.5-12-0.2]
1/3 cup corncob ash [0-0-25]

Supplimentary Salts for flower:
Bloom Burst (1 TEAspoon per gallon) [10-55-6 plus chelated iron]

But that is never very helpful. Every grower has a slightly different situation and you've already mentioned your lack of access to Bio Tone. You will need to make up your own formulation based on what is avaliable to you. With that said you need to know some good ratios.

You want 3 times as much nitrogen as you have phosphorus and potassium during veg (3/1/1). Comparitively high nitrogen swings your population heavily female along with making for fast-growing, dense, bushy foliage.

From here most growers treat the flower stage all the same. One nute formulation is considered good to get you through the whole 8-12 weeks. I on the other hand make a distinction between two 'halves' of flower. To make it plain; they aren't really halves. The first half is much shorter than the second, usually only lasting 2-3 weeks.

The first half of flower contains the period known as 'strech' where the plants go wild with vegetative growth. This is also where the plants sex and start to settle into producing budmass. During this stage I change the nute formulation to a ratio of 1/2/1. Thats twice as much phosphate than nitrogen and potassium. The second stage of flower is the final 6-10 weeks of growth and consists primarily of 'budswell' The plants will do little more at this point other than add mass to the colas. This is where you really lay it into them, nailing the plants with the strongest teas of the grow between flush and starve cycles. A ratio of 1/3/2 is good for this part (thats three parts phosphate to two parts potassium to one part nitrogen).

Whatever nutes you use to hit these numbers just remember to keep it simple. You will only ever fertilize a handful of times over the course of the grow so you need to get it right when you do. Additives like Ascophylum Nodosum kelp are helpful more because of the hormone content than the pathetic nutrient value (1-0-2 usually) so keep this in mind. I could help you fine-tune your nute formulations if you post a list of organics that you can get your hands on. We'll figure you out a specific mixture from there.

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Hey Drunken Mess,

Got the BioBuckets bubblin'.

Here some pics of how I put them together.

These are the pieces and parts I picked up at a hydro warehouse and Casa dePot. Gromments, 1/2" barbed elbows, tubing etc.....



Using the stepped drill bit and measuring tape, I plotted out then drilled holes, then manipulated the grommets and elbows into position. Also, drilled a hole down low for a drain and stuffed a plug in it.



Then I added the tubing for a sight tube and I ran the air supply down and into the bucket.



6" air stone in the bottom.



Hydroton up to overflow relief.



I had some indoor soil mixed up to start, figuring I would need about 24+ gals. total medium. I added a little more FFOF and Vermiblend. To this I added,
5 cups of Blood Meal
8 cups Kelp Meal (aschophylum nodosum), this is all I had.
5 tbls Epsom Salts
10 tbls Dolomite Lime
2 tbls MycoMadness (soluble)




Then I blended in a 50l bag o' coco and filled up the buckets. I maintained a void in the middle so I can just slip my plants in when ready. Jack, my growing partner, supervises everything!



Broke out the air pump and plumbed it up.



This is my Grow Box where the magic happens.



Jack's sister, Jill, is our Grill Cleaner Extraordinare.



DM, would you please review my Nute mix and advise me of any changes that would be of benefit?

Thanks, RipVanWeed