Decarb consistancy?

JamesFarmer · Sep 26, 2015

Hey Everyone,

I have been making edibles and canna caps for quite some time and have tried to nail down some level of consistency in potency.

Most recently I made 4 batches of canna caps using identical materials and dosage. I had a run of mixed flowers & trim run in a closed loop system. It was run in a single batch and I expect that it should be consistent in quality. I bought a fresh jar of coconut oil and soy lecithin.

Using these materials I produce 4 batches following precisely the same quantities in each batch. Unfortunately the effect produced by each batch varied significantly.

The only variable I can see is the decarb process. I made 3 batches in my kitchen and one in another kitchen. Different ovens.. I attempted to follow Grey Wolfe's decarb chart calling for 257F for 27 minutes.

As the thermostats on the ovens are not terribly precise/accurate I used a "point & shoot" IR thermometer to check temperature. I found it somewhat difficult to hold a very stable temp in my oven. In the other oven I used the temp was more stable at either 250F or 270F but I couldn't find the middle. So, I went with 250F for 30 minutes.

The perceived strength between the strongest batch and the weakest batch was at least 2:1. When we tried the strongest ones the consensus was that they were bordering on too strong. When we took 2 of the weakest one the effect was not as strong as one of the strongest batch.

I am considering building a "decarb oven" with a very precise temperature & time control.

Before I take that on I wanted to see if you all see any other likely causes for the variation or if you can suggest a better solution?

Thanks.

FH

Grow Tech · Sep 27, 2015

I know Grey Wolf likes to decarb oil / hash in an oil bath. Here's my approach
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=258390
Water at 15psi (which is the operating pressure of better pressure cookers) boils at 250f. Just about perfect for decarbing.

shredGnar · Sep 27, 2015

Have you gotten tests done on the caps? I would be reluctant to make big changes without tests... I know for me I can gain a tolerance to the same strain or oil made from the same flowers pretty quickly so just going off how you feel might not be the best way to judge consistency. Hell even how much I've smoked in one day can greatly effect how an edible makes me feel.

Donn · Sep 27, 2015

The mixed flower & trim is what you're decarbing? That seems obvious to me, but there's a lot I don't know about what people are up to. In any case, it seems like that would be the weak link in your quest for better consistency. Do we have some way to be sure that two piles of weed have the same THC per weight? One of them might have gotten more light, cured a little different, who knows. I'm no expert, just think it's an interesting question. For example, they tell me upper parts of the plant often have more THC.

But something like Grow Tech is talking about will eliminate some of the question marks with oven decarb, it seems to me. Along with the not so precise oven, there are probably a range of temperatures inside the material just because of how heat is transferred in an oven.

blastfrompast · Sep 28, 2015

Ur better off using a double boiler oil bath....watch the BUBBLES

JamesFarmer · Sep 28, 2015

Donn said:
The mixed flower & trim is what you're decarbing? That seems obvious to me, but there's a lot I don't know about what people are up to. In any case, it seems like that would be the weak link in your quest for better consistency. Do we have some way to be sure that two piles of weed have the same THC per weight? One of them might have gotten more light, cured a little different, who knows. I'm no expert, just think it's an interesting question. For example, they tell me upper parts of the plant often have more THC.

But something like Grow Tech is talking about will eliminate some of the question marks with oven decarb, it seems to me. Along with the not so precise oven, there are probably a range of temperatures inside the material just because of how heat is transferred in an oven.

Material from two strains was mixed together and processed into one single batch of BHO. I am using the BHO from that single run.

JamesFarmer · Sep 28, 2015

Grow Tech said:
I know Grey Wolf likes to decarb oil / hash in an oil bath. Here's my approach
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=258390
Water at 15psi (which is the operating pressure of better pressure cookers) boils at 250f. Just about perfect for decarbing.

Interesting process. I may have to give that a try.

One concern: I rely on weight to determine dosage. Does the hash absorb much water in your process? The added water weight may screw with my recipe?

JamesFarmer · Sep 28, 2015

shredGnar said:
Have you gotten tests done on the caps? I would be reluctant to make big changes without tests... I know for me I can gain a tolerance to the same strain or oil made from the same flowers pretty quickly so just going off how you feel might not be the best way to judge consistency. Hell even how much I've smoked in one day can greatly effect how an edible makes me feel.

Good points. But... I don't smoke due to lung issues. My primary consumption is capsules.

I have not had them tested. The THC-A & CBD-A content should be consistent as I am using BHO from a single run. My expectation is that the variable is the conversion to THC & CBD during decarb.

I do agree that "feel" is not an precise, accurate & quantifiable measure. However, when I take two caps a day for a month and experience a similar effect daily until I begin a new batch and two caps puts me on the couch for 16 hours, I think "feel" is enough of an indicator that there is a significant difference in strength.

EastCoast710 · Sep 29, 2015

honestly.. just make sure your either 1.. allowing for a VERY LONG STIR.. because I make edibles.. and caps.. and shit.. and I can say.. the longer you stir.. the better for most of this stuff we make.. atleast to make it as even as possible. I bought a auto stir thingy lol works like a fucking CHARM

JamesFarmer · Sep 29, 2015

EastCoast710 said:
honestly.. just make sure your either 1.. allowing for a VERY LONG STIR.. because I make edibles.. and caps.. and shit.. and I can say.. the longer you stir.. the better for most of this stuff we make.. atleast to make it as even as possible. I bought a auto stir thingy lol works like a fucking CHARM

+1

I would love to have one of the auto stir gizmos. I decarb in the coconut oil and that does make it a bit easier to insure complete incorporation.

shredGnar · Sep 29, 2015

JamesFarmer said:
Good points. But... I don't smoke due to lung issues. My primary consumption is capsules.

I have not had them tested. The THC-A & CBD-A content should be consistent as I am using BHO from a single run. My expectation is that the variable is the conversion to THC & CBD during decarb.

I do agree that "feel" is not an precise, accurate & quantifiable measure. However, when I take two caps a day for a month and experience a similar effect daily until I begin a new batch and two caps puts me on the couch for 16 hours, I think "feel" is enough of an indicator that there is a significant difference in strength.

Fair enough...

In that case I would follow grey wolf's directions using an oil bath as others have suggested.

Chunkypigs · Sep 29, 2015

you can't make accurate edibles using the bake your buds method.
water % in starting material effects the process too much.

use the oil bath method. stop when the bubbles look like champagne.

this is about halfway done. the oil will develop a tall head of bubbles when it first kicks off so make certain your beaker or jar is tall enough and it doesn't boil over.

JamesFarmer · Sep 30, 2015

Chunkypigs said:
you can't make accurate edibles using the bake your buds method.
water % in starting material effects the process too much.

use the oil bath method. stop when the bubbles look like champagne.

this is about halfway done. the oil will develop a tall head of bubbles when it first kicks off so make certain your beaker or jar is tall enough and it doesn't boil over.

View Image

I have never tried the "bake your buds" method so I can't speak to that.

I heat my BHO/coconut oil mixture in the oven. I have opened the oven door periodically to look & check temp. I have never observed bubbles like I see in your picture. I wonder why??

Grow Tech · Sep 30, 2015

JamesFarmer said:
Interesting process. I may have to give that a try.

One concern: I rely on weight to determine dosage. Does the hash absorb much water in your process? The added water weight may screw with my recipe?

I've been using less than dry bubble hash and the product seems drier at the end than when I start. I had covered the container with foil the first time I did it and the foil seemed to retain moisture. I understand your sitch is different so maybe something that would allow pressure /gasses out but resist moisture coming back in (like a lid with a small hole).
One note....choose the glass your product is in carefully. I use thick ass 2oz bar glasses. Don't move them until the pressure cooker returns to close to room temp. Glass+heat+pressure+ rapid cool down+vibration/movement can combine to equal broken glass

iversonpi · Nov 27, 2015

Chunkypigs said:
you can't make accurate edibles using the bake your buds method.
water % in starting material effects the process too much.

use the oil bath method. stop when the bubbles look like champagne.

this is about halfway done. the oil will develop a tall head of bubbles when it first kicks off so make certain your beaker or jar is tall enough and it doesn't boil over.

View Image

Hi!

Could you tell me at what temp do you set the Olive oil to decarb? I read several theories, better lower temp and longer (220F) or better 250 f or 275 f and quicker.

Thanks a lot

JamesFarmer · Nov 27, 2015

iversonpi said:
Hi!

Could you tell me at what temp do you set the Olive oil to decarb? I read several theories, better lower temp and longer (220F) or better 250 f or 275 f and quicker.

Thanks a lot

Take a look at: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/comment-page-2/

Great info regarding decarb & time vs temp.

Many thanks to Gray Wolf.

iversonpi · Nov 29, 2015

Thanks James!

Obsidian · Nov 29, 2015

those bubbles are not decarbing, that's serious bho purging.
decarbing process on oil does not work like that at all.

shishkaboy · Jan 12, 2016

I just put the butter or oil with the thc a on a low flame and bring it up to 239 degrees for 30 min.

You can deffo see the chemical reactions taking place right before your eyes.

I keep it under 240 because the terps start evaporating at 240.

There is a video of the process on instagram
@shishkaboy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAZ9-JcTYbYh3sN95THuqB7MrAdU154tpBRyMg0/?taken-by=shishkaboy

Bongstar420 · Jan 14, 2016

Answer:

Decarb the oil till its done decarbing by watching it.

I get consistent results from different materials and batches...

My last run was random material I extracted and infused without lab testing anything till the final product.

My aim was 20mg THC 20mg CBD...I got 17.7mg THC and 19.7mg CBD. 17.7mg THC is effectively identical to 20mg to the consumer.

Your oils will not have the same time. The chemistry of the oil will effect its decarb time.

60% oil decarbs faster than 80% oil

Your testers sound like lightweights..there is not a such thing as "too strong"

Myabe its me though. I smoke a gram with hash in the morning at work without issue.

20mg fully decarbed THC barely gives me a buzz

You decarb teh oil in a tin pan with a theromostat in the oil at the surface being heated. You keep the temperature around 250 till its barely bubbles and smokes slightly. Never just do a time and call it good.. Always watch the product make your decision based on its physical qualities with time as a rule of thumb. My last decarb was 45 min at 250f and I'd bet I only got 90% decarb.

JamesFarmer said:
Hey Everyone,

I have been making edibles and canna caps for quite some time and have tried to nail down some level of consistency in potency.

Most recently I made 4 batches of canna caps using identical materials and dosage. I had a run of mixed flowers & trim run in a closed loop system. It was run in a single batch and I expect that it should be consistent in quality. I bought a fresh jar of coconut oil and soy lecithin.

Using these materials I produce 4 batches following precisely the same quantities in each batch. Unfortunately the effect produced by each batch varied significantly.

The only variable I can see is the decarb process. I made 3 batches in my kitchen and one in another kitchen. Different ovens.. I attempted to follow Grey Wolfe's decarb chart calling for 257F for 27 minutes.

As the thermostats on the ovens are not terribly precise/accurate I used a "point & shoot" IR thermometer to check temperature. I found it somewhat difficult to hold a very stable temp in my oven. In the other oven I used the temp was more stable at either 250F or 270F but I couldn't find the middle. So, I went with 250F for 30 minutes.

The perceived strength between the strongest batch and the weakest batch was at least 2:1. When we tried the strongest ones the consensus was that they were bordering on too strong. When we took 2 of the weakest one the effect was not as strong as one of the strongest batch.

I am considering building a "decarb oven" with a very precise temperature & time control.

Before I take that on I wanted to see if you all see any other likely causes for the variation or if you can suggest a better solution?

Thanks.

FH

Decarb consistancy?

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