Switching to Vertical lamps

Backyard Farmer · Jan 11, 2014

My current indoor set up is in an 11x20 room , there are 4 4x8 raised beds with 10,000w over it , 48000BTU of a/c , co2, and a Santa Fe Classic ...I want to get away from running big numbers of plants so I can use my room all summer. Even if I get 10 lbs from 8 plants I can do it 4 times instead of run the room 1 time and get 15 LBS ...40 is more than 15. LOL

I am going to do 10 kW and 8 plants. Here is how I imagine doing it:

XOX
OXO
XOX
XOX
OXO
XOX

Mainly because the ceiling in my room is powered to wire the reflector sockets so I could just put an eye hook and yoyo to hang the socket so I can raise/lower the light and run the cord to the plug very easily.

I looked at the stickies and they're all about racks and donuts, I am looking for Krusty's thread where he talks about how to set the room up as far as the distances to mount lighting. If any one can post that up I'd appreciate it.

The natural thing to do seems to be to burn 6" off each side (treat the room like it was 10' wide) box out 10x20 in to 5x5 squares and put the sockets on the intersections of the squares?

In my diagram everything gets 3K and the middle 2 plants are surrounded by 6K, I assume these are going to be either AWESOME plants or not know what the hell to do with 6K getting blasted on them..but how about the back side? I imagine with 3K hitting one plant even the side not directly exposed to the light will produce or is it a total waste and hash material?

I plan to add a HydroFogger in the room on a humidistat because I know the vertical lamps and not having such a large volume of soil in there any more will plummet the rH.

DHF · Jan 11, 2014

Well Veg...I`ll help yas with some of my "cut and paste" knowledge as you`ve called it on numerous occasions , so take it for what it`s worth since the only krusty thread left is under a "secret squirrel" nick Serapis that was mostly staged in pm by all of us back in the day to create drama and feed the klown's ego since this was the last public weedsite that he got banned from.....

I was 1 of his staged newbies along with several other well-experienced growers that fed him the questions he "wanted" to answer and then blew off the rest , or jumped down folks throats that asked the "wrong" questions he avoided when it questioned his "God hood"...that said....

In a perfect 10x10 room plants are centered at 5' on each wall and 2-1/2 out....Lights are 2-1/2' out from each corner directly in line with the plants with each plant it`s own 5x5 footprint and getting blasted by 3 bare bulbs at all times...

I`d advise yas partitioning off the room so those middle plants in your diagram won`t be subject to potential light bleaching/heat scorchin 1K`s are so notorious for , but with lil over 45 watts per sq ft , be sure ta keep the insides and sucker branches cleaned out to concentrate plant energy on the outer extremities ftw.....

Once the plants finish stretch if they`re dialed and drinkin their ass off for swellage , RH won`t be a problem but keepin it in the 70 percentile till stretch is over w/fogger will help yas guaranteed....

Since yas prolly won`t partition off into 2 areas I`d suggest keeping the x`s and o`s from 1 end to the other for prevention of what I stated above.....anyways...

I try ta help everyone unconditionally , so again take it for what it`s worth , but I highly doubt you`ll find anyone on these boards more knowledgeable and experienced than this old ass , so good luck and hope yer garden works out for yas....

Peace...DHF.... :ying:

...

Backyard Farmer · Jan 11, 2014

DHF said:
Well Veg...I`ll help yas with some of my "cut and paste" knowledge as you`ve called it on numerous occasions , so take it for what it`s worth since the only krusty thread left is under a "secret squirrel" nick Serapis that was mostly staged in pm by all of us back in the day to create drama and feed the klown's ego since this was the last public weedsite that he got banned from.....

I was 1 of his staged newbies along with several other well-experienced growers that fed him the questions he "wanted" to answer and then blew off the rest , or jumped down folks throats that asked the "wrong" questions he avoided when it questioned his "God hood"...that said....

In a perfect 10x10 room plants are centered at 5' on each wall and 2-1/2 out....Lights are 2-1/2' out from each corner directly in line with the plants with each plant it`s own 5x5 footprint and getting blasted by 3 bare bulbs at all times...

I`d advise yas partitioning off the room so those middle plants in your diagram won`t be subject to potential light bleaching/heat scorchin 1K`s are so notorious for , but with lil over 45 watts per sq ft , be sure ta keep the insides and sucker branches cleaned out to concentrate plant energy on the outer extremities ftw.....

Once the plants finish stretch if they`re dialed and drinkin their ass off for swellage , RH won`t be a problem but keepin it in the 70 percentile till stretch is over w/fogger will help yas guaranteed....

Since yas prolly won`t partition off into 2 areas I`d suggest keeping the x`s and o`s from 1 end to the other for prevention of what I stated above.....anyways...

I try ta help everyone unconditionally , so again take it for what it`s worth , but I highly doubt you`ll find anyone on these boards more knowledgeable and experienced than this old ass , so good luck and hope yer garden works out for yas....

Peace...DHF.......

Thanks what I bolded was the information I was looking for.

Can you explain the italicized section.

You're right I'm not going to build a wall and split the room.

DHF · Jan 11, 2014

I thought the italicized part was pretty self-explanatory.....What don`t you understand.....

Lights in an "X" pattern with plants in a diamond pattern....Simple...babyshit....

Your diagram shows 2 perfect setups backed up to each other that`s no bueno IME , but to each his own....

Tips of bulbs held at top of plants till end of stretch , and then dropped where end of socket`s even with the tops till end of cycle...and....

In my early morning wake and bake stupor , what I meant to say bout my knowledge and experience was with indoor big plants and increased plant numbers.....not overall plant and scientific knowledge cuz I was just a grower.....but....

A damn good 1 regardless of anyone`s thoughts to the contrary....

50/50 Sat/Ind hybrids are the plant of choice for solid return on investment with indoor big plants......

Backyard Farmer · Jan 11, 2014

I don't understand what keeping the X's and O's from one end to the other statement means? Mainly because I have the plants on a diamond with the lights on a X pattern like you're saying.

I am just using a 10x20 room instead of 2 10x10 rooms, if the environment is right, I don't get how or why it's bad ?

Just seems like you're hung up on having a 10x10 room?

Can you tell me the down side of running the pattern I want to use? Works great with the tables under it

StayFoolish22 · Jan 11, 2014

Think he has stated twice why, but it would seem like too much light will be in the middle of the room, maybe spend a few bucks at the hardware store and break your room down with some 2x4's or plywood.

DHF · Jan 12, 2014

Ok Veg....I`m gonna lay it out as simply as I know how......ALL the lights and plants NEED to continue in the X and O diamond patterns for proper overlap WITHOUT potential heat stress/light bleaching that guaranteed 2 plants catchin lumens from 6 lights will cause....IOW....

Done right , your room ends up with 11 lights and 10 plants with plants 3 & 6 catchin lumens from 4 lights and guaranteed if tended properly will be your best plants in the room.......so.....

Can yas see it now ?.....Plus....It gives yas EXACTLY 50 watts per sq ft in the meantime ....Ok....I`ll even diagram it 4 yas.....

XOX
OXO
XOX
OXO
XOX
OXO
XOX

And that`s how yas do it right , but bigger rooms are harder to dial environment in with big plants and all the lumenloss above , behind , and all around , so good luck with what ever configuration you decide on and go with.....now....

I`ve done my job , the rest is up to you.....

Backyard Farmer · Jan 12, 2014

Thanks, I figured that's what you meant.

I have enough cooling and dehumidification to deal with my set up.

I'll throw some pictures up when it's interesting

bobblehead · Jan 12, 2014

Did hell just freeze over? Freds? lol Welcome to the vert section Veg.

and Freds... You don't have to have lumen loss in a bigger room if you fill it with trees. I'd rather have my corner lamps shining on plants instead of a wall. In Hell having 5 tons of mini split a/c in addition to the central air compressor might look suspicious. In medville you're small time.

DHF · Jan 12, 2014

bobblehead said:
Did hell just freeze over? Freds? lol Welcome to the vert section Veg.

and Freds... You don't have to have lumen loss in a bigger room if you fill it with trees. I'd rather have my corner lamps shining on plants instead of a wall. In Hell having 5 tons of mini split a/c in addition to the central air compressor might look suspicious. In medville you're small time.

Lol Bobbles....What I`ve always meant about lumenloss in bigger rooms is the fact that MOST don`t realize all the light that gets PAST the plants with bare bulbs NEVER returns without the help of the reflective material of choice and budget , and guaranteed produces shadows and dark areas that`s no bueno and counterproductive to the rooms performance...granted....

Not many folks go to the trouble of hangin reflectix/prodex/orca on the ceilings either Bobbles , and for the record WITH said coverings you`ll NEVER shine lights on the walls in the corners , cuz ALL the light gets bounced right back at the plants sideways usin the SAME principals horizontal hoods are designed for grows flat ways.....

Yrs and yrs ago I changed the minds of more old heads than I can remember in med-ville bout em settin up warehouses with mega-wattage and big plants then barely hittin 1lb plants cuz of all of the lumenloss from the high open ceilings and the bullshit panda film they had on the walls....

Once they realized that 10x10`s with 8' ceilings framed up and runnin perpetually with the low plant counts gave em consistent product every month +/- instead of waitin 3 solid months for a Harvey , and THEN havin ta process and dump it all at once on the market at reduced prices due to the amounts , needless to say they saw the light...anyways....

I hope Veg kills it with bare bulbs and big plants...but..It ain`t nothin like growin big plants outside though due to the limited amount of useable light indoors , so proper plant maintenance inside the middles around and away from the mainstem , as well as getting rid of nuthin ass sucker branches off the main laterals , are paramount in importance for proper airflow and lumen penetration for the bottom line...anyways....

Good luck...DHF.... :ying:

....

Backyard Farmer · Jan 12, 2014

DHF, you have to do the same thing outdoors no one likes fluff, plants are plants. Guess what? I'm even going to use the soil mix I use for my outdoor trees, inside!

I'm pretty sure there isn't anything special about making a bunch of small rooms, we will see.

I'm going to see if I can fit the 11 light diagram , if not I'm going to just do 2 4 plant 5 light set ups in the same room.

I'm either going to do nl x train wreck or bomb threat x SFV/jacks cleaner2

DHF · Jan 12, 2014

Backyard Farmer said:
DHF, you have to do the same thing outdoors no one likes fluff, plants are plants. Guess what? I'm even going to use the soil mix I use for my outdoor trees, inside!

I'm pretty sure there isn't anything special about making a bunch of small rooms, we will see.

I'm going to see if I can fit the 11 light diagram , if not I'm going to just do 2 4 plant 5 light set ups in the same room.

I'm either going to do nl x train wreck or bomb threat x SFV/jacks cleaner2

Well Veg.....I`m absolutely positive that makin a bunch of smaller 10x10`s run a month apart in age perpetually in a warehouse setting or large basement up to the point where each room finishes and gets re-planted every month+/- down to every week if enough sq ftg is available to do so......

KILLS a 1 room big setup that finishes 3-4 months later vegtime and strain dependent from the beginning in OH so many ways....Got too many old head hippie ass growers on the left coast that`ve been listening and yielding accordingly for yrs and yrs.....and hey....

I`m glad yas know bout cleanin out the innards and laterals of big plants for the bottom line , was just tryin ta help...And again....use that soil mix and see how long of a vegtime it takesta get em big enough ta flip to fill a 5x5 footprint by end of stretch cuz enquiring minds wanna see and know first hand....now....

If you go with 2-4 plant 5 light setups in the same room , you`re RIGHT back where yas were with your original diagram where 2 plants get blasted by 6 lights to their imminent doom I all but guarantee , but...again....stranger things have happened , and I`ve been wrong before....anyways......

I`ve done my part to tell yas the RIGHT wayta do things....ball`s in your court....

Peace....DHF..... :ying:

....

Backyard Farmer · Jan 12, 2014

I just don't have the extra 5' in the room to put 10 plants and 11 lights or else I would do it.

When I grow SOG in the same mix it always grows fast and yields well so I can't see it being a problem.

DHF · Jan 13, 2014

Backyard Farmer said:
I just don't have the extra 5' in the room to put 10 plants and 11 lights or else I would do it.

When I grow SOG in the same mix it always grows fast and yields well so I can't see it being a problem.

Your mix has nothing to do with what your original thread question was/is about Veg......

SOG plants settin roots and getting flipped all but immediately under 10 K and yielding accordingly , is apples and oranges compared to the vegtime it takes to get big plants to the point when flipped so they'll fill in that 5x5 footprint by end of stretch , but.....

If you plan to go forward with this , to make it work to your benefit since you`ve got 11' instead of 10 width wise , try shortening the "length" footprint and hang the bulbs closer to actually give yas the 11 lights and plants in the proper configuration SO each plant gets a shot at bein all they can be by end of cycle.....after all....50 watts per sq ft will make the plants happy ...bet on it...and....

Guaranteed runnin multiple strains the first time you`re gonna have gaps in the sideways canopy , and since they`ll be dirt grown and handwatered , they`ll be easy to keep oriented toward the bare bulbs as close as they need to be as they get bigger till end of stretch , so that said.....

I say hang the 11 lights in an X pattern , set 10 plants in the Diamond pattern , and do this....ain`t but 1 way ta see where shit`ll end up without doin it for the first time.....and yeah....

Plants are plants as you so boldly stated Veg.....BUT..... big plants inside don`t grow NEARLY as fast as they do outside under the big Metal Halide in the sky in dirt , so guaranteed there`s a "learning curve"......even for you....

Peace...DHF.... :ying:

....

Backyard Farmer · Jan 13, 2014

I'm going to do either all NL x Trainwreck , all Trainwreck , all DOG , or all Bubba x OG

Watering is going to be done by inline drip emitter tubing and a shallow well jet pump. No hand watering for me!

The other thing I was thinking I could do is get 10 600s and use 4 1ks down the middle and do the Krusty pattern in 10x20 with 14 lights and 10 plants?

bobblehead · Jan 13, 2014

A possible concession could be to make the corner lamps 600's, and the rest 1kw giving you 9.4kw of light. Just a thought...

bobblehead · Jan 13, 2014

Backyard Farmer said:
I'm going to do either all NL x Trainwreck , all Trainwreck , all DOG , or all Bubba x OG

Watering is going to be done by inline drip emitter tubing and a shallow well jet pump. No hand watering for me!

The other thing I was thinking I could do is get 10 600s and use 4 1ks down the middle and do the Krusty pattern in 10x20 with 14 lights and 10 plants?

What's the Krusty pattern look like? I might be interested in something like that.

Backyard Farmer · Jan 13, 2014

It's not the power that's the problem it's the space. According to the spacing given I won't have enough length in my room to do 5x5 squares with 10 plants 11 lights , krusty had it laid out so the 1ks ran down the center and the 600sw ere on the outside, 6 plants got 3200 w and 4 plants got 2200w in a 10x20

I'm just going to try it a few different ways.

DHF · Jan 13, 2014

Backyard Farmer said:
It's not the power that's the problem it's the space. According to the spacing given I won't have enough length in my room to do 5x5 squares with 10 plants 11 lights , krusty had it laid out so the 1ks ran down the center and the 600sw ere on the outside, 6 plants got 3200 w and 4 plants got 2200w in a 10x20

Krusty never burned a 600 watt bulb in his life Veg.....ALL cheap ass 1KW Mh and HPS...period...and....

If that krazy fukin klown were right here RIGHT now , you`d be getting DAWG-CUSSED for questioning his PERFECT setup trying ta use less than 50 watts per sq ft....lol....and....If yas shorten the "length" footprint and still use the 11 lights and 10 plant setup ......

Even if yas`re mono-croppin (that I applaud and respect btw) you`ll be aight since it`s the first run and there`s no way in HELL you`ll learn the first run when ta flip so they`ll end up in the perfect 5x5 footprint , so again......

Set the 11 lights and 10 plants in the X and O pattern and dial them bitches...Don`t skimp on wattage , or deal with larf guaranteed....anyways...

50 watts per sq ft for big plants guys.......PLEASE......

Peace...DHF.... :ying:

....

Backyard Farmer · Jan 13, 2014

Ok, well I'll make 4x5 squares. Thanks. I found krustys pics and diagrams, he does use 6s, DHF, please don't be such a know it all. I'll post it all to keep it going.

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Switching to Vertical lamps

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