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Organic grower trying RDWC...whole new beast

Bennyweed1

Active member
Veteran
Hey icmag cats..

So I been a organic gardener my whole cultivation career. I want to try something new that makes less of a mess. Recycling soil and transplanting perpetually makes a large mess..atleast for me.

Im kinda sick of cleaning and the back breaking work of turning soil all the time to keep up with my garden.

I started growing organically because I felt it was simple and, it is. I like not having to measure nutes and check ECs but on the flip side, I gotta mix and cook soil, and transplant all the time. So it has its ups and downs.

Anyway, enough yappin' why I am doing things differently.

My new system I am building is a RDWC using 8- 27gallon totes and a control reserv.

I learned in my time that an air lift AACT brewer is a much more efficient way of restoring dissolved o2 in the water then using air stones.

So why do all the hydro guys add air stones when running a RDWC system? I thought the point of RDWC was to connect all the containers together and drop nutrient solution back in from the top breaking water surface tension and creating massive amounts of dissolved o2?

I mean that is what I plan on doing so I dont have to run any air stones. Doesnt the same concept hold true even though it is not an AACT; that is why we make air lifts, because it is so much better then air stones, right?

Just wrappin' my head around this new world of hydro....thanks peeps and dont worry, my heart will always be in organic gardening.
 
C

Carbon.Chains

Recycling soil and transplanting perpetually makes a large mess..atleast for me.

Im kinda sick of cleaning and the back breaking work of turning soil all the time to keep up with my garden.

I gotta mix and cook soil, and transplant all the time

Well if you have been growing organically for a long time I am sure you have heard of no till? Direct sowing as well?
Why are you not following those techniques if mixing soil and transplanting is what bothers you?

Anyway I think your question regarding air-lifts might be answered better by people knowledgeable in hydro and RDWC systems.
My take on it would be that an ACT requires higher levels of dO2 than plants in a hydroponic system. So the air-lift would be excessive.
But I really don't know as I never got really interested in RDWC/other.
 

Bennyweed1

Active member
Veteran
Well if you have been growing organically for a long time I am sure you have heard of no till? Direct sowing as well?
Why are you not following those techniques if mixing soil and transplanting is what bothers you?

Anyway I think your question regarding air-lifts might be answered better by people knowledgeable in hydro and RDWC systems.
My take on it would be that an ACT requires higher levels of dO2 than plants in a hydroponic system. So the air-lift would be excessive.
But I really don't know as I never got really interested in RDWC/other.

I have been no tilling for 2+ years, doing it all, its time for a change.
 

Bennyweed1

Active member
Veteran
Dont mean to be rude but I posted here because hydros guys dont know much about AACTs like we do.

Someone mentions the word hydro and everyone turns into the snobs you run into at whole foods. Seriously, Ive been posting in this organic section for the last 3 years....... I know how things work better then most.

Either side of the fence this question goes, people will be whining and telling me to go somewhere else, I just figured us organic guys had a little more patients, and wisdom to know the difference.

So wudda say we stop acting like kids in high school and focus on answering my question by relating it too AACT brewing? No?
 
C

Carbon.Chains

Dont mean to be rude but I posted here because hydros guys dont know much about AACTs like we do.

Someone mentions the word hydro and everyone turns into the snobs you run into at whole foods. Seriously, Ive been posting in this organic section for the last 3 years....... I know how things work better then most.

Either side of the fence this question goes, people will be whining and telling me to go somewhere else, I just figured us organic guys had a little more patients, and wisdom to know the difference.

So wudda say we stop acting like kids in high school and focus on answering my question by relating it too AACT brewing? No?

If you didn't get any answer it's either that nobody knows or the ones that have tried an air-lift pump in a RDWC system haven't seen your thread yet.
Either way you could try it for yourself and see how it works for you.
I'm sorry if you took my answer as snobby or whatever... It wasn't.
You have your reasons to try hydro, and that's fine. I think most here could care less (don't mean to disrespect you here). I do think, like MileHighGuy, that your question is more related to hydro growing than organic soil.
I checked your thread on the hydro forum and I don't see anyone "whining and telling you to go somewhere else" on that "side of the fence".

Good luck with your RDWC grow,

C-C
 
I use an air lift in my AACT brewer. Link below shows it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=255613

My air lift brewer definitely keeps DO levels higher than my bubble bucket (as measured with a lab-grade DO meter). To be fair, the air lift brewer uses an EcoPlus Commercial Air 5, and the bubble bucket uses an EcoPlus Commercial Air 1. I tried to run the Eco 5 in the bubble bucket for a "level playing field" comparison, but the shear power of the Eco 5 promptly splattered half the bucket on the floor...

I think the biggest benefit to the air lift (and resulting vortex) is that it keeps everything circulating and eliminates anaerobic "dead zones".

I'm no DWC hydro expert... Are you considering an air lift in each individual bucket, or in the main res? If I were in your situation, I might do one big airlift in the res, plus an air stone in each bucket. One thing I know is you really can't have too much air.

Gonna try organic hydro?
 

Bennyweed1

Active member
Veteran
I use an air lift in my AACT brewer. Link below shows it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=255613

My air lift brewer definitely keeps DO levels higher than my bubble bucket (as measured with a lab-grade DO meter). To be fair, the air lift brewer uses an EcoPlus Commercial Air 5, and the bubble bucket uses an EcoPlus Commercial Air 1. I tried to run the Eco 5 in the bubble bucket for a "level playing field" comparison, but the shear power of the Eco 5 promptly splattered half the bucket on the floor...

I think the biggest benefit to the air lift (and resulting vortex) is that it keeps everything circulating and eliminates anaerobic "dead zones".

I'm no DWC hydro expert... Are you considering an air lift in each individual bucket, or in the main res? If I were in your situation, I might do one big airlift in the res, plus an air stone in each bucket. One thing I know is you really can't have too much air.

Gonna try organic hydro?

Solid response man. But let me ask you this, the reason why we use air pumps instead of water pumps is because the propeller inside of the water pumps would kill what we are trying to brew, correct?

The air lifting the water isnt actually adding all that much o2 to the tea, its the amount of water breaking surface tension that adds o2 back into the tea?

I want to use a large 1200gpm pump to create water fall effect in each bucket off a manifold system.

So theoretically speaking, if I was to take your lab-grade DO meter and have two 5 gallons bucket of pure h20, one with a air pump lifting the water and the other with a pump lifting the water, I should see similar dissolved o2 levels?
 
Well... Oxygen transfer rate (air to water) is mostly a factor of the surface area of water in contact with air, and the dissolved oxygen concentration gradient at the water surface (whether that surface is the top of your res, or the inside of a bubble). It's not so much about the falling water "breaking the surface tension" as the falling water creating more surface area (around each droplet of splashed water, etc).

Also, the constant, organized mixing that happens as the water is pulled from the bottom and poured on the top ensures the the most rapid oxygen transfer by constantly exposing the most DO depleted water to oxygen sources.

There are many other factors at play, but the air lift basically maximizes the air/water contact surface area and creates the strongest DO concentration gradient (thus fastest DO transfer rate) through thorough, organized mixing. You've got oxygen transfer as the water in the airlift tubes is blasted with air, oxygen transfer at rhe surface of the falling water, and increased oxygen transfer at the surface of the res as the flat (minimum surface area) water surface is transformed into a splashing, frothing, cone-shaped, swirling/mixing kind of situation. All these factors together are what makes air lifts beneficial.
 

Skinny Leaf

Active member
Veteran
Bennyweed1 hydro growing is going to be as much if not more work than growing organically. You are going to find yourself experimenting a lot with the hydro when you first start with it. I did hydro for a few grows and did well with it. Then when I went to growing in dirt it was like a vacation. I had days where I had no gardening chores unlike the hydro where everyday required working in the growroom. Everyday I had to fill the resevoir, check nutrients, unclog drains, make sure pumps were working and the list goes on. I am not trying to discourage you. Its just more work than you realize. I say go for it though. I think trying different growing methods help round out the growing experience.
 

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