Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

Chris Ryan said:

Just the kind of thread I need instead of starting a new tread with a "basic" question.
I built a brand new growbox that is 50 cm deep, 100cm wide and 120cm high. Inside this I have a 400watts HPS with a cooltube. Everything there is fine. Before this I have only had a lowrider microgrow.

Strains: 3 White Widow X AK47, 2 Shiva Shanti II, 1 Danish Pot and 1 Haze Special
All from seed. And I am expecting males so they will be removed.

Now for my question.

When should I induce flowering? Atm they are about 1 week old. I dont want them to outgrow the box, but I dont want to waste space either.

What can you recomend?

Thx in advance.

Click to expand...

Well it's a little hard for me to visualize because I have an 8'x8'x5' grow space I work with. I'd say you would want to flower them when they were about 1 foot tall. I'm not experienced with growing small but the rule of thumb is to expect the plants to as much as triple in size during flower, your space is fairly low and tight and with the number of plants you could have in there if they all go female would make things tight. Personally with a space and light like that, I'd go with SOG (Sea of Green) or ScrOG (Screen of Green) style growing.

Well here's a faily newbie question suitable for a newb like me. But it's one I'm most curious about while I have exhausted most of the reads on here and other forums. I have heard that the average circuit in US residency is capable of 15 amps, maybe 12 for safety. Obviously, going over this may create a fire hazard.

I see a TV takes up a couple amps, a high end computer with a 5.1 speaker system may take up 6-8, or something. Why can't I see the correlation? An average living room with a high end entertainment system, a computer, 2 incandescent lights, maybe a window AC, etc., on a power strip should far exceed 12 amps.

Now, to apply this to growing: How can you tell how much amps are used up and whats the maximum for any given wall plug? I know you can look at the HID specifications and add them up, but is there some kind of a device, or a more specific/scientific approach?

If this is all true, it would mean that a "normal" house is limited to maybe 1k watts per room without serious modifications in the electric box thing. How do all these growers consistently wire 3-5k's to 1 very small "grow room"?

Correct...MOST homes have 15a circuits and sometimes those circuits are shared between more than 1 room.

A large TV might use 2-3 amps...PCs normally don't use more than 1 amp for an extended period of time. Window ACs will use about 100 watts per 1000btu as well, so it's very easy for the 15a circuits to handle most "normal" household power needs.

Most people that are running more than a 1K setup have either ran power from another circuit into that room or had a new higher amp circuit dropped in the grow area. A new circuit is the most desirable for safety reasons and isn't hard to do yourself (if you have a basic understanding of wiring) but can also be professionally installed for relatively little cost ($200-$400).

The 80% safety factor is typically the point where a circuit breaker will trip before any damage can occur to the wiring. Most outlets are rated for 15a as well, but there are 20a (and higher rated) outlets out there...they just cost more so most homebuilders don't include them since they are not needed under "normal" household use.

If you need to find out how many amps are being used on a circuit, you will need to "map" the circuit to find out all of the outlets that are on the circuit. Then you can add up the devices electrical consumption to find out how much room is left on the circuit.

Correct on the last part...most folks using 3k+ have new circuits installed for the grow area...this allows them a central disconnect via a single breaker as well.

HempKat said:

Well it's a little hard for me to visualize because I have an 8'x8'x5' grow space I work with. I'd say you would want to flower them when they were about 1 foot tall. I'm not experienced with growing small but the rule of thumb is to expect the plants to as much as triple in size during flower, your space is fairly low and tight and with the number of plants you could have in there if they all go female would make things tight. Personally with a space and light like that, I'd go with SOG (Sea of Green) or ScrOG (Screen of Green) style growing.

Click to expand...

I was thinking about the scrog method, but wanted to try a reglular grow in the space to have something to compare with.

Thanks for your advice!

MTF-Sandman said:

Correct...MOST homes have 15a circuits and sometimes those circuits are shared between more than 1 room.

A large TV might use 2-3 amps...PCs normally don't use more than 1 amp for an extended period of time. Window ACs will use about 100 watts per 1000btu as well, so it's very easy for the 15a circuits to handle most "normal" household power needs.

Most people that are running more than a 1K setup have either ran power from another circuit into that room or had a new higher amp circuit dropped in the grow area. A new circuit is the most desirable for safety reasons and isn't hard to do yourself (if you have a basic understanding of wiring) but can also be professionally installed for relatively little cost ($200-$400).

The 80% safety factor is typically the point where a circuit breaker will trip before any damage can occur to the wiring. Most outlets are rated for 15a as well, but there are 20a (and higher rated) outlets out there...they just cost more so most homebuilders don't include them since they are not needed under "normal" household use.

If you need to find out how many amps are being used on a circuit, you will need to "map" the circuit to find out all of the outlets that are on the circuit. Then you can add up the devices electrical consumption to find out how much room is left on the circuit.

Correct on the last part...most folks using 3k+ have new circuits installed for the grow area...this allows them a central disconnect via a single breaker as well.

Click to expand...

Another popular trick are these timer boxes that plug into a dryer outlet and can run 4 x 1000W plus related fans each 1000W on different times if so desired.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/index.php?cPath=383_384

Chris Ryan said:

I was thinking about the scrog method, but wanted to try a reglular grow in the space to have something to compare with.

Thanks for your advice!

Click to expand...

No problem, hope I was of some assistance. There's nothing wrong with a regular grow then again one needs to define "regular". The rule of thumb I use in hid lighting is 50W per square foot. When I grow my plants regular I calculate each consuming two sq. feet or another way of looking at it 100W per plant. So if I was going to grow "regular" with a 400W light I'd want to limit my grow to 4 plants. The main problem is that for me, "regular style" often means 5 or 6 foot plants. Your box was about 4 feet and I don't know if that includes the reflector for the light or not. Therefore a style forcing the plant to grow in a controlled way that works in your box would be best. Of course with SOG or ScrOG it's best to work with clones.

Now if you had the patience and time to do this an ideal scenario for you would be to grow as many seedlings as you feel comfortable with. Pull the males like you talked about, and hopefully you end up with 4 or 6 nice mother plants. Giving them a nice long veg, (6 to 8 weeks). Trim them for a batch of nice clones, then after a few days of recovery put them into 12/12.

Take your clones and set up a seperate grow box (for clones and seedlings) You could use just fluoros. I have one the fixtures bulbs and everything to make it cost about $100. It's a box approximately 4'x2'x2' lined with six 4' shoplights, 2 on the top panel, 2 on the front panel and 2 on back panel. Each holding 2 40W T-8 fluoros for a total of 480W. I have it set that I can easily add or subtract lights by pluging them in thru a surge protector. I have it in storage and it's not fully complete yet anyway so alas I have no pictures.
Anyway, with a seperate grow area like that you can keep moms and raise clones by cycling the moms out every time you take clones. Once you got it to where you can do that you could crank out 5 to 6 crops a year if you went full bore. If however you just did 2 or 3 then you stay supplied with free weed better then what most can buy.

HempKat said:

No problem, hope I was of some assistance. There's nothing wrong with a regular grow then again one needs to define "regular". The rule of thumb I use in hid lighting is 50W per square foot. When I grow my plants regular I calculate each consuming two sq. feet or another way of looking at it 100W per plant. So if I was going to grow "regular" with a 400W light I'd want to limit my grow to 4 plants. The main problem is that for me, "regular style" often means 5 or 6 foot plants. Your box was about 4 feet and I don't know if that includes the reflector for the light or not. Therefore a style forcing the plant to grow in a controlled way that works in your box would be best. Of course with SOG or ScrOG it's best to work with clones.

Now if you had the patience and time to do this an ideal scenario for you would be to grow as many seedlings as you feel comfortable with. Pull the males like you talked about, and hopefully you end up with 4 or 6 nice mother plants. Giving them a nice long veg, (6 to 8 weeks). Trim them for a batch of nice clones, then after a few days of recovery put them into 12/12.

Take your clones and set up a seperate grow box (for clones and seedlings) You could use just fluoros. I have one the fixtures bulbs and everything to make it cost about $100. It's a box approximately 4'x2'x2' lined with six 4' shoplights, 2 on the top panel, 2 on the front panel and 2 on back panel. Each holding 2 40W T-8 fluoros for a total of 480W. I have it set that I can easily add or subtract lights by pluging them in thru a surge protector. I have it in storage and it's not fully complete yet anyway so alas I have no pictures.
Anyway, with a seperate grow area like that you can keep moms and raise clones by cycling the moms out every time you take clones. Once you got it to where you can do that you could crank out 5 to 6 crops a year if you went full bore. If however you just did 2 or 3 then you stay supplied with free weed better then what most can buy.

Click to expand...

I read your post and I'm actually allready one step ahead of you.
Which makes me happy that I'm thinking in the right direction.
After our last conversation I decieded that it wouldn't be
worth not going scrog just to find out how big the difference is.
Therefore I allready have a 1" chickenwire net prepared as soon
as they get big enough.

I had earlier allready built another smaller box 1foot deep, 2½ feet wide
and around 2½ feet high. Inside this box there are 8 20watt flouros (a kind
with extra high lumen output). First I was going to use this as a seedfactory
for Lowrider seeds. There I would make a sog grow to get a lot of diversity in
genetics.

Then I started thinking about my biggest waste of time here is the vegging
of my scrog grow. Atm I have I couple of different strains to try. If I take
cuttings from say the two best I could vegg those in the same chamber
as mentioned above.

Now to my question. In the smaller grow there will be pollen in the air. I hope
anyway. Will this pollen affect my other clones that are only in the veg stage?
I can accept that preflowers are pollinated but other than that I want the
sensemillia

Chris Ryan said:

I read your post and I'm actually allready one step ahead of you.
Which makes me happy that I'm thinking in the right direction.
After our last conversation I decieded that it wouldn't be
worth not going scrog just to find out how big the difference is.
Therefore I allready have a 1" chickenwire net prepared as soon
as they get big enough.

I had earlier allready built another smaller box 1foot deep, 2½ feet wide
and around 2½ feet high. Inside this box there are 8 20watt flouros (a kind
with extra high lumen output). First I was going to use this as a seedfactory
for Lowrider seeds. There I would make a sog grow to get a lot of diversity in
genetics.

Then I started thinking about my biggest waste of time here is the vegging
of my scrog grow. Atm I have I couple of different strains to try. If I take
cuttings from say the two best I could vegg those in the same chamber
as mentioned above.

Now to my question. In the smaller grow there will be pollen in the air. I hope
anyway. Will this pollen affect my other clones that are only in the veg stage?
I can accept that preflowers are pollinated but other than that I want the
sensemillia

Click to expand...

Well if all that's out is pre-flowers, which should be the case in veg then it won't be a problem if that pollen is gone about a week or two before flowering. That's assuming the pollen can stay viable that long, I'm not sure that it can. If it's in the air with active flowers then those flowers will almost certainly be pollinated. The thing is you mention lowryder which autoflowers so I don't know how you can really control the flowers exposure to pollen.

Hi. I'll soon start a new grow from seed. I plan on using 100% organics all the way till the end of flowering. I've got my veg and flowering soil mixes figured out already. My question is: after germinating the seeds in the wet paper towel, in what kind of soil should I place them in? 100% vermiculite? Worm castings? Peat? a mix of some sort? And how long after that should I transplant them into their "real", already composted vegging soil? 2 weeks?

Thanks.

Formaldehyde said:

Hi. I'll soon start a new grow from seed. I plan on using 100% organics all the way till the end of flowering. I've got my veg and flowering soil mixes figured out already. My question is: after germinating the seeds in the wet paper towel, in what kind of soil should I place them in? 100% vermiculite? Worm castings? Peat? a mix of some sort? And how long after that should I transplant them into their "real", already composted vegging soil? 2 weeks?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Well things like vermiculite, peat, wormcastings, etc are componants of soil mixes and not really soil mixes by themselves. So yeah, it would be a soil mix. Basically you want to use a soil mix with just a weak trace of ferts or nutrients in it as seedlings can burn easily. Then wait until they show an N deficiency (usually around week three) then you either feed them with an organic liguid fert. or transplant them into your mix that will include worm castings, bone meal, blood meal, kelp, guano, etc.

How soon they need to go into a richer medium depends alot on how weak the medium they are in a first is. If for example you used pure vermiculite (and I'm not sure that would work but it probably could if handled right) you would have to feed it within days as there would be no food at all in vermiculite. It basically just helps with drainage and soil composition.

So maybe 60% peat, 30% perlite and just 10% worm castings would be good?

I mentioned 100% vermiculite and peat because I thought it was better to have no food at all at first than just a small amount. Guess not. Plus people use vermiculite to root clones so I thought maybe it could work. Now that I think about it again, it probably wouldn't work all that well because clones already have leaves and seedlings do not, and they probably need some food to create leaves. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. heeh.

Anyway, thanks.

Hey there Hempkat! Its good to see you are still around these days, its nice to see a familiar face from OG thats still around. Anyways I hope my question is simple enough for you. During my last grow I used mylar to increase my light reflectivity but never really found an effective way to hang that shit. It would always be crinkling up or getting a big ripple in it or trying to tack it nice just to rip the mylar or tape it up for it to unstick and fall over onto my plants. So my question is what is a good way to hang mylar so I can get it as flat and mirror like as possible?

Formaldehyde said:

So maybe 60% peat, 30% perlite and just 10% worm castings would be good?

I mentioned 100% vermiculite and peat because I thought it was better to have no food at all at first than just a small amount. Guess not. Plus people use vermiculite to root clones so I thought maybe it could work. Now that I think about it again, it probably wouldn't work all that well because clones already have leaves and seedlings do not, and they probably need some food to create leaves. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. heeh.

Anyway, thanks.

Click to expand...

No, actually clones need more ferts then seedlings since they're much more mature. It is true that almost no ferts is prefered for seedlings but they can handle some. I've always started my seedlings in normal enriched potting soil with extra perlite added and have had no problems. Seedlings do have enough food stored in the seed to get the plants first set of leaves and then once they're there photosynthesis takes over. 60/30/10 sounds like it would probably work out okay, that's really more like a soilless mix though which is fine. Myself, I'd go to the store and get just a basic enriched soil (I use a brand called Expert Gardener Perfect potting mix which is widely available at Walmart's for around $7 for 2 cubic feet) mixed at a 60/40 mix with soil/perlite. I'd grow them in that until they showed signs of needing ferts then I'd transplant them to your composted organic soil mix.

Heavy Chevy said:

Hey there Hempkat! Its good to see you are still around these days, its nice to see a familiar face from OG thats still around. Anyways I hope my question is simple enough for you. During my last grow I used mylar to increase my light reflectivity but never really found an effective way to hang that shit. It would always be crinkling up or getting a big ripple in it or trying to tack it nice just to rip the mylar or tape it up for it to unstick and fall over onto my plants. So my question is what is a good way to hang mylar so I can get it as flat and mirror like as possible?

Click to expand...

Well if it tears easily you are probably using something like the emergency blankets. Which work but they do tear easily and will almost never go up smooth because they have creases from being packaged folded up. If you buy the rolls of mylar they sell at hydro stores (especially the 2 mil brand) then that mylar is tougher and won't rip as easy.

There is no easy way I know of if the surface it's covering needs to be kept looking good. If however you have a grow box or chamber or room that you don't are what happens to the interior surfaces then just use spray adhesive. This is basically rubber cement in a spray can. You spray it on the wall. Take your roll of mylar and start an edge at the top and then roll it down against the wall smoothing it as you go kind of like wallpaper. You can also use a squeegy to help smooth out the surface.

Speaking of mylar...I too have had problems putting it up. I resorted to dollar store car windshield heat reflector things...padded mylar, and I stapled it up. It was alot cheaper, but it does have wrinkles, which gives it a diffused reflection.
Works for me!!

Here is a good shot of them!!

Erbsdaword1 said:

Speaking of mylar...I too have had problems putting it up. I resorted to dollar store car windshield heat reflector things...padded mylar, and I stapled it up. It was alot cheaper, but it does have wrinkles, which gives it a diffused reflection.
Works for me!!

Here is a good shot of them!!

Click to expand...

Yeah that works fine. Actually while mylar is better technically, it doesn't give so much of a benefit to really be all that much better then flat white paint. Many growers who have been doing the indoor thing for a while have given up on mylar in favor of the flat white paint. I think mylar was rated at 97% reflectivity and flat white at around 87%

Hey Hempkat! Geez your not nearly as busy as you used to be at Overgrow what do you do with your spare time? Anyways being the lazy stoner I am I setup a homemade bubble cloner and took clones off of some plants that are already 25 days into 12/12. I guess my question is, is this even going to work or am I too late? And if it does work what would be the best light cycle for me to be using?

Heavy Chevy said:

Hey Hempkat! Geez your not nearly as busy as you used to be at Overgrow what do you do with your spare time? Anyways being the lazy stoner I am I setup a homemade bubble cloner and took clones off of some plants that are already 25 days into 12/12. I guess my question is, is this even going to work or am I too late? And if it does work what would be the best light cycle for me to be using?

Click to expand...

Well I'm fairly new to cloning myself. I do know it is strongly advised against taking clones during flower. One because it is a source of stress to the flowering ladies that could trigger a hermie response. Two because the clones will have to revert to veg while trying to establish roots, not impossible but it slows things down.

With the limited experience I have with clones I have not tried to clone any that were in flower. I have heard it said though if you must clone a flowering plant then it's best to get it as early in flower as possible, then reverting to veg might just take a few days rather then a few weeks. That's the big thing, reverting to veg can take quite a while. What you are doing is possible but there will be two main effects, your clone failure rate will go up for this batch (unless you are a magnificent grower in which case this batch would merely be slightly tougher to grow :smile: ) The other main effect will be that it will take you up to 3 weeks longer to get the plants healthy, well established and ready to flower, then if you were using clones taken in veg.

Yeah it's slower here then it was at OG, there I was probably averaging 4 to 5 questions a day. Oh well, hopefully that just means everyone is getting along famously and not needing any help

hey, if it's questions you want, i got a million of them . here's a cloning question while we are on the subject (by the way, i have never cloned, except for some recent practicing on houseplants) ...

how big a piece do you snip to make a clone ?
where on the plant do you take it from ?
do clones like a window or do they fare better under a floro ?

green_grow said:

hey, if it's questions you want, i got a million of them . here's a cloning question while we are on the subject (by the way, i have never cloned, except for some recent practicing on houseplants) ...

how big a piece do you snip to make a clone ?
where on the plant do you take it from ?
do clones like a window or do they fare better under a floro ?

Click to expand...

Actually those are 3 questions. I'll try to get them as best I can given my limited cloning experience.

1) There isn't a set size per se but you don't want to take something too big as there will be very limited support for plant life until new roots develope. I'd say on average clones und up being about 3 to 4 inches long counting the part that you want to roots to grow on.

2) Pretty much any of the grow tips, many feel that the higher the grow tip the better the clone will be and that holds true with what I've seen in my own cloning trials. Wherever you cut a clone that grow tip will split at the node below the cut and grow as two branches. For this reason people who like big single cola plants don't take clones from the top. Many say to take clones from lower branches that won't get big because they are blocked by the plant above. This works and will keep the grow tips at the top producing big cola buds but they also tend to be a little harder to get to root from my experience. Basically, I take the grow tip and then cut a couple inches below the set of full leaves just below the grow tip. This should be about 4 to 5 inches long. Then I hold the stem of the clone below water level in a bucket or other container and cut a bit of the end off at a 45 degree angle. Then I take a razor and gently scrap the outer skin of the stem from the bottom up about an inch. This is called scarification which helps the clone to develop roots easier from the scraped area. Then I dip this lower portion into some cloning gel and then insert the dipped portion into either a jiffy pellet, a rapid rooter plug or you can use rockwool (which is something many hydro growers use) or you can also use plain soil in a small container. Personally I like the peat pellets or the Rapid Rooters as they allow you to see the roots when the plant is ready to be transplanted. I then use what is called the Water Bottle Cloning method where you cut open a small pint size water bottle (maybe 1 liter at the most) such that the top part can be fitted in place over the bottom part. I then place one clone inside each bottle and that bottle remains the clone's own private humidity chamber until the clone developes roots which can take as long as two weeks sometimes longer.

3) Well clones seem do do better without too much light and they seem to develope roots a bit faster if you give them 24/7 light. For both those reason I think it is better IMHO to use fluoros for clones.