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Reviving Old Seeds**attn Dubi

Eleutherios

Member
So I haven't posted anything in any forum for quite some time. I guess that I just didn't have anything to say... At any rate, I have a pack of Erdpurt and one of Lebanon on the way from ACE's site and some Zamalidelica and some Banghi Haze freebies on the way from Seedsman. I have been spending entirely too much fucking time, in fact, reading about, looking at, and of course dreaming of growing and breeding ganja over the last few days. Honestly though, I am just going to be excited to grow my own herb securely for the first time in a couple of years. Even though I am on the legal coast, finding a spot to do your thing, when you're poor is ducking hard. It is usually just making due and having balls.

To the point, all of this landscape fetishizing has reminded me of some really old seeds that I was gifted. How old? Old enough that you would probably tell me not to bother. However if you don't throw the Dragon eggs onto the fire, how could you possibly esteem their potential? Having a background in tissue culturing in mycology, my plan was to attempt to germinate them in sterile test tubes with plain agar. The seeds, I envisioned soaking in water with a tiny bit of something like miracle grow, but I mean a tiny, tiny bit. Then, there is a solid kelp extract that I have used to stimulate germination in other, hard to sprout species (not Cannabis), with great success. After this treatment I would wash them with dilute bleach and then several times with plain, sterile water. Then they would go into the agar and be incubated at say 25c.

I thought then about something like Superthrive. It is less complex than the kelp, but has b1. Also, maybe miracle grow isn't best. Maybe it is more ideal to use a specific formula/ratio of lab grade hormones of ab&c. I don't know. That is why I am asking. I figure that some of the folks, in this specific sub-forum, love old school herb as much as I do or maybe even more and have faced similar dilemmas yourselves. So what do you think? What do you know? Play jazz.

P.s. already checked Google and it is sparse. Going to try and soft through academic literature at some point, but figured I'd go fishing here.
 

Eleutherios

Member
That is supposed to say "landrace" not landscape. Autocorrect... Also "fucking" not ducking, but that is less important. Using a friend's tablet and tired... Anyways...
 

Limeygreen

Well-known member
Veteran
Some people are swearing by cracking the seeds manually to open the seed shell and let the embryo push through as they can be a lower energy. People sell a vice for this but others have suggested a couple things to me (neither of which I have tried) soak overnight in a solution of water , 1 litre with 8 drops of hydrogen peroxide, then use your fingers to gently pop the seed open at the seems. Some people like the paper towel method to germinate after this or straight in the soil. Another person also recommended to use teeth rather than fingers.
 

Eleutherios

Member
if those are really old, try to get gibberelic acid, to boost them

My questions then would be "which one(s)?" and in "what concentration?" Wikipedia says that there are some 150 different variants. I would imagine that some are natural and that some are synthetic. It would be surprising to me if there wasn't some sort of interaction, agnostic on some cases antagonistic in others.

The reason that I mentioned kelp is that it is a rich source of plant growth hormones.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225338767_Seaweed_Extracts_as_Biostimulants_of_Plant_Growth_and_Development

I wonder if the hormonal treatment would negate the necessity of manually opening the seed; i.e. If the difficulty in the seed opening is due to the seeds' endogenous hormones having expired.

At any rate it has been my observation that difficult to germinate tropical seeds, that take a long time, are particularly vulnerable to microbial attack. As such a sterile medium seems more ideal than soil, a soilless medium, or the old fashioned paper towel method. The latter option also suffers from the fact that it is easy to wait a little too long, the root grows into the paper towel, and it is easy to damage the root removing it.

So in the now strictly hypothetical scenario where one or more of these ancient gems actually wakes up and sprouts, I wonder if a cutting would have the same likely lack of vigor as the parent plant. Any thoughts?

Thanks everyone for your interest and responses.
 

UFOpilot

Member
I think agar won't help.Seeds don't need any food at first.Sprouting seeds is something else then tissue culturing.
I have used water with a tiny bit of dishwashing detergent to get rid of the greasy outside of the seeds lately.
Cracking and a little grinding also works.
But when seeds are just too old or kept in the wrong way nothing will help.
But you can always have a try with some tricks.
 

Eleutherios

Member
A clone is genetically identical do the plant it came from. Its potential is the same. Only a different environment will produce a different outcome.

I know that this is the general statement, but it was my understanding that some degree of senescence takes place over the course of the decades, or at least there is some debate over whether or not this is the case. Senescence is the product of cumulative mistranscriptions of DNA. This isn't the case here as no genetic replication has taken place.

In terms of the seeds getting old, organic compounds are going to be the most liable to degradation. That could include the DNA itself, etc, but my thoughts are at least, that the hormones will be the biggest casualty. The GA3 treatment in the Mexican sativa thread likely failed because other hormones are needed to balance the effect of the GA3. Perhaps instances of people resurrecting herb seeds, only to have them fizzle, is partially due to this. My thoughts were that vegetative tissue propagation is fairly well documented. If you could at least take a tissue culture, then it might be easier to lab propagate via a plantlet than a weak seedling that needs to be coddled along. The idea being that it would be easier to get the hormonal balance right via the tissue culturing.
 

dubi

ACE Seeds Breeder
Vendor
Veteran
Welcome Eleutherios,

Thanks for choosing our genetics for this season :)

Honestly i don't have a specific protocole for germinating old seeds, i have a tried a few methods (mainly disinfect+pre soak with vitamins+scarification), which are being discussed in more depth in the recommended thread:

Vintage Mexican, Seed germination and Micro propagation techniques.

If you have lot of old seeds then maybe is worth to try different germination methods until you find which one works best with the lot of seeds you are trying to germinate.

When trying to germinate old seeds is very important the use of good quality water (pure destiled water, good mineral water or rain water) and to germinate always in the correct temp range (24ºC-28ºC). Another thing that really has worked when we have tried to germinate old seeds is to choose the date of the start of the germination process following the biodynamic calendar, that is: start the germination in a highly rated flower day in the 2 week descending moon cycle.

Please keep us updated with the results of your germination tests and with your progresses this season. Best wuishes!
 

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