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Dankwolfs rks breeding project and breeding info discussion

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
In the beginning around 1975 Skunk #1 was RKS as hell, almost every plant regardless of where grown, by whom, or how. In other words the RKS was in the plants not how they were grown or by nutrition or by whom. It took me basically a decade to remove most of the RKS smells from SK #1, then I took Skunk #1 to the Netherlands and reproduced the variety from selected sweeter clones that seldom if ever threw out any RKS smelling Skunk#1's.
FYI, growing methods and nutrition can alter terpene profiles both yields and profiles but the basic contents are still the same just the profile can be altered a bit, no new terpenes are created by using different nutrition or growing methods. Terpenes are controlled by having the correct terpene synthases in the plant. Terpene expression is modified by methods and nutrition, but no synthase, no terpene of that synthase.
I always found great plants were even better in an organic soil that encourages massive roots with zillions of very fine roots. I have grown bio-dynamically, organic, in the ground, most of my life.

Most of the Cali-O seeds I made and sold in Calif and here were not pure Cali-O most were Cali-O X Skunk #1, very few pure Cali-O seeds were ever sold, while kilos and kilos of Cali-O X Skunk#1 were made and sold here and there. Pure Cali-O is not RKS at all.

Most people are strongly influenced by their own experiences, which may or may not be the reasons in this case. I have seen Skunk #1 every year for 4 decades, by the thousands, the first decade by seeds, then by clones, I have a pretty good idea what it does. I have grown the same Skunk #1 clone for several decades so many places around the world I can't even remember them all, literally zillions of plants, most from the same clone, every soil, every climate, indoors, outdoors, greenhouse, even hydro a few times.

I do still have maybe 50 Kg of Skunk #1 seeds left that were made here after a decade of selection towards the sweet side in the USA, but the parents of the 50 Kg were from USA seeds and they did still have RKS smelling individuals in the acre of plants from seeds I made in the USA and brought with me, I remember walking through the field and killing any plants male or female that I considered inferior, there were lots of RKS Skunk #1 in the field. I did not kill or remove any by smell alone, I wanted potency, smells were not so important for that crop of seeds. The seeds are now more then 25 years old but I did a germination test last month and got 17% to germinate, they have been under cold storage at 4C.

I do not really have an interest in recreating my RKS Skunk #1 but sooner or later I will maybe sell the 50 Kg of seeds to a breeder I respect, to work with the seeds. Even at 17% 50 Kgs has 2,500,000 seeds or 400,000 viable seeds, so I am sure there are RKS individuals in them, but it does take a lot of work to grow them out to find the ones to keep. That is 200,000 females to judge, and then to get a male you need to select out the best males, keep them alive, and test progeny to find the best males to combine with the best females, females are much easier to find and keep. Or just make all female seeds it requires much less work then finding, trialling progeny, and keeping and using males. That is part of the reason so many make all female seeds nowadays, that and they sell for more, and you can reach goals faster. But Cannabis is a dioecious obligate outcrosser plant, it does not like small populations which can bring on loss of vigor from inbreeding. If you self a single plant and make seeds, grow those, self one of them again, etc for more then 3 selfed generations you end up with wimpy plants with no vigor that have trouble even producing viable pollen when transformed to male, many recessive deleterious genes pop up. It is similar to why Monoecious hemp varieties are inferior in yields and quality, they are just to inbred.

When I see folks doing this work, as I have many times, I tell them to work with more plants, that is how to make fast progress toward a goal, or away from a smell in my case. With clones I selected the best 10 females and 10 males out of many thousands, and then made 100 trial populations from the selected 10 Females times the 10 Males so I could grow out 200 seeds of each of the 100 populations, 20,000 in a single grow just to test the progeny. That way I knew what parental combo was closest to my goals. I still have those clones but they are sweeter Skunk#1, that was my goal.

Good luck, the goal is not an easy one, I would not try without starting materials that are appropriate to reach the goal.
PS I do not retail seeds, you can ask, but the answer is no. For the last few decades I only sold wholesale several kilo minimums, and now I am all but retired, I have been cataloging my seed collections, thousands of hybrids I have never even grown, almost a ton of seeds, most I made myself, a few from others I collected overseas, but maybe to many for me to grow? 50 million seeds, if they were all viable, I say 5-10 million females that need to be trialled and evaluated for use.
-SamS

Dank,

You just gave us a great example. You are forced to work with cuts that will tolerate what you are doing to it. Don't take this wrong.

If there had been enough Ca and the conductivity low enough, you may have had an amazing blood line. But instead of you fixing the medium, the variety didn't make the cut. But the cut is what?

Sorry, but the cut is our ignorance. That is all.

Took me many many years to figure this out and in very big spaces.... thousands of acres at a time. Not in cannabis, but it doesn't matter. Farming an annual is farming an annual. Same with perennials....

And where I will agree with you is that each cut has what it likes, often this means more Ca, or more Mn, or B.... There are varieties of mandarins that no one likes yet everyone plants because it is the first to flower and first to produce. Hits amazing prices. Yet eats horrible. It is called Satsuma Okitsu.

Eat one of my Okitsu's... haha. Eats like candy. Why? It won't take high K, likes high N and high Ca.... People call me a liar when I give them one and then tell them what variety it is...

Lots of the best varieties world wide, melons, onions, snow peas, tomatoes, peppers, etc... DEMAND high Ca. Otherwise, they are marginal producers and the quality is not good.

The seed houses have bred their seed to grow in the conditions which their clients farm. So a breeder that gets amazing quality but needs high Ca, won't stay in the market long if he doesn't explain this to the grower...

See it all the time.

Here is an article. Note the THC levels per sample. I ran the base distributions on the soil, that is in the second file. Note the highest THC was in the soil that had the highest Ca base distribution %'s Also note the foliar analysis.

If these were all the same seed, note the variation in THC and actives versus the soil base distributions, looking very very hard at Ca%....

Good reading!

For those of you that find this a tough conversation come on over to the slow nickel lounge
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=331317

where you will get a bit more explanation of what we agronomists call the base saturation which is the sum of Ca, K, Mg, Na and H and looking at the relationship between them all. Calcium (Ca) needs to be around 80-85% just to put things in perspective. There is even a video!!

Sorry for grabbing your thread Dank...
 
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Dankwolf

Active member
thank you for your input sam and the work you did . for a fact we would not have the strains we have now if it were not for you and tthe others like you.
 

[m8]

Member
Veteran
Dolomite - all depends from rock Y have, ive used it for every grow, but clean stuff, for outdor two times for season, when you preparing soil and just about week befoure bloom starting for good..
They saying dolomite block drinking others elements.. Im saying better use mother earth than chem shi*..

:tiphat:
 

mack 10

Active member
Veteran
In the beginning around 1975 Skunk #1 was RKS as hell, almost every plant regardless of where grown, by whom, or how. In other words the RKS was in the plants not how they were grown or by nutrition or by whom. It took me basically a decade to remove most of the RKS smells from SK #1, then I took Skunk #1 to the Netherlands and reproduced the variety from selected sweeter clones that seldom if ever threw out any RKS smelling Skunk#1's.
FYI, growing methods and nutrition can alter terpene profiles both yields and profiles but the basic contents are still the same just the profile can be altered a bit, no new terpenes are created by using different nutrition or growing methods. Terpenes are controlled by having the correct terpene synthases in the plant. Terpene expression is modified by methods and nutrition, but no synthase, no terpene of that synthase.
I always found great plants were even better in an organic soil that encourages massive roots with zillions of very fine roots. I have grown bio-dynamically, organic, in the ground, most of my life.

Most of the Cali-O seeds I made and sold in Calif and here were not pure Cali-O most were Cali-O X Skunk #1, very few pure Cali-O seeds were ever sold, while kilos and kilos of Cali-O X Skunk#1 were made and sold here and there. Pure Cali-O is not RKS at all.

Most people are strongly influenced by their own experiences, which may or may not be the reasons in this case. I have seen Skunk #1 every year for 4 decades, by the thousands, the first decade by seeds, then by clones, I have a pretty good idea what it does.

I do still have maybe 50 Kg of Skunk #1 seeds left that were made here after a decade of selection towards the sweet side in the USA, but the parents of the 50 Kg were from seeds and they did still have RKS smelling individuals in the acre of plants from seeds I made in the USA, I remember walking through the field and killing any plants male or female that I considered inferior, there were lots of RKS Skunk #1 in the field. I did not kill or remove any by smell alone, I wanted potency, smells were not so important for that crop of seeds. The seeds are now more then 25 years old but I did a germination test last month and got 17% to germinate, they have been under cold storage at 4C.

I do not really have an interest in recreating my RKS Skunk #1 but sooner or later I will maybe sell the 50 Kg of seeds to a breeder I respect to work with. Even at 17% 50 Kgs has 2,500,000 seeds or 400,000 viable seeds, so I am sure there are RKS individuals in them, but it does take a lot of work to grow them out to find the ones to keep. That is 200,000 females to judge, and then to get a male you need to select out the best males, keep them alive, and test progeny to find the best males to combine with the best females, females are much easier to find and keep.

When I see folks doing this work, as I have many times, I tell them to work with more plants, that is how to make fast progress toward a goal, or away from a smell in my case. With clones I selected the best 10 females and 10 males out of many thousands, and then made 100 trial populations from the selected 10 Females times the 10 Males so I could grow out 200 seeds of each of the 100 populations, 20,000 in a single grow just to test the progeny. That way I knew what was closest to my goals. I still have those clones but they are sweeter Skunk#1, that was my goal.

Good luck, the goal is not an easy one, I would not try without starting materials that are appropriate to reach the goal.
PS I do not retail seeds, you can ask, but the answer is no. For the last few decades I only sold wholesale several kilo minimums, and now I am all but retired, I have been cataloging my seed collections, thousands of hybrids I have never even grown, almost a ton of seeds, most I made myself, a few from others I collected overseas, but maybe to many for me to grow? 50 million seeds, if they were all viable, I say 5-10 million females that need to be trialled and evaluated for use.
-SamS


What a post.

The last paragraph shows the level of growing here...wow!
But kinda sucks for me an DankWolf though, as you have spent
The last 10 years breeding away from what we want,
However I'm pleased you explained how you did it,
Should really be called Sweet Skunk Sam.
:) just joking.
So who's brave enough to make an offer on those beans?
Would be an amazing project for someone in the right spot.

Sam, any idea which generation of skunk #1,
the blues (blueberry skunk) Cheese and psychosis (UK skunk, very similar to cheese)
Came from ,pheno wise? I know they where found around'89 an onwards, At diff places in the uk.

Would they be from seed of rks descendants (USMade)or
The newer sweeter (Dutch made) skunk?

I too had been thinking to re make the skunk from scratch in the search for simular plants to the early UK Skunks.

Wish I could work 200k lots, would make progress much faster.
I have selected Mazar Afghani and am currently sourcing the Colombian Gold.

Anyone want to chip in for 3kilos of seed?
:)
 
B

BAKED_BEANZ

i say gift the beans and let someone work them , why let another day go by .....great read too
 

Dankwolf

Active member
If Sams beans were up for sale and i am not saying they are i would vote for slownickel to start such a project . just my two cents.any way back to the rks thread .
 
B

BAKED_BEANZ

If Sams beans were up for sale and i am not saying they are i would vote for slownickel to start such a project . just my two cents.any way back to the rks thread .

he may know soil , he's grown bugger all weed . thats crazy talk . :laughing:
 
B

BAKED_BEANZ

my vote would be atleast refresh the stock , even if it couldn't be done in the large volumes sam is accustomed too . better than gone forever . sam,s choice i guess . i,m sure there would be a long line of qualified breeders willing to take them .
 

Dankwolf

Active member
The reason i said slownickel is the space he has access to and that being what sam wants for his seeds . also i am sure slow would document it as he has been doing with all his work and not just disappear.it does not take any one special to use there nose but it would take lots of room to meet sams wish.

Personaly i am over it and ready to move on from the conversation and get back to what we can do now not what could/possably/maybe happen .
 

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
he may know soil , he's grown bugger all weed . thats crazy talk . :laughing:

With all that laughter, I have a couple of very interesting offers on the table to head some very large commercial grows. Guess my lack of experience(?) that I supposedly have doesn't seem to bother those folks.

I have farmed for more than 30 years, more crops than you can shake a stick at and in lots of different Countries in lots of different soils. Growing weed is an easy crop and not rocket science, soil science comes close though!

And EVERYONE that has asked for my help and gotten their soil analysis has GOTTEN very real results, so not a bad track record so far....

Seriously thinking about getting involve in one of these big legal grow monsters to add a bit more evolution to the industry, love variety trial work and getting consistency in the "field". Been doing trials for years looking at the best genetics under ideal growing conditions, this crop will be no different.

I would even argue that most breeders choose the wrong material. Laziness or lack of knowledge in their selection process due to not knowing how to dial in a soil far enough so that the crop can have a chance to show us what she is really capable of.

Those breeders that are in the right soils to begin with have a definite advantage as their seeds were developed in a heavy Ca soil and these traits are clear when in those conditions, yet take her out of optimum conditions and....

To the breeders downfall he has often selected seeds which were developed in optimum conditions but later were planted in much less than optimum conditions by some wannabe grower using Beebobs mix with a handful of woowoo juice bottles that do everything for everyone and even can get you to grow hair on your knuckles... haha.

Sat next to a guy from the World Bank once that was a seed specialist. He told me that his professor did an opposite trial, where instead of picking the best, he picked the worst. His professors argument is that plants have genetic memory and that often the best seed tries to adapt, it is this adaptation which often offers new possibilities. After several rounds he apparently demonstrated better results using the worst versus the best to develop the traits that they were after.

Stay tuned. Might be in the biz a lot faster than you might think...

Meeting with a couple of breeders at the cup, I want to find carbonate and sodium resistant seed lines. I am thinking of grafting and using root stocks too....
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I know of few Cannabis breeders that have any real knowledge of actual plant breeding. Even if they do exist they are not working with the numbers it takes to do real Cannabis breeding like I like.
I know lots of great Cannabis selectors, they can pick the best before they smoke them. But genetics takes education, to do it right and few Cannabis breeders have a formal education in plant breeding. This will change now that Cannabis is getting legal and educated breeders will be willing to devote their lives to breeding legal Cannabis varieties.
I am not trying to say that all PHD plant breeders can breed great Cannabis, they need years of Cannabis experience, or help from others that do have this.
Ask your favorite Cannabis breeder if they have a formal plant breeding education or if they have ever bred any crop besides Cannabis? If so are the varieties used?
This will all change, many students in Universities are considering Cannabis as a crop to improve, and I have no doubt they will change the way we all look at Cannabis in the near future when molecular biology and DNA methods allow the use of marker assisted breeding with Cannabis. I hope there are thousands of real plant breeders working with Cannabis in the near future, but we are not there yet.

As for me giving them away, how about you buy them and then you gift them away? I spent years of time and my money to make these I would like a small return for the time and money I spent, but I am sure if you had them you would just hand them out? I have done so in the past, I have given kilos of these same seeds away, just for the fun of it, but I had hundreds of Kgs of them at the time, now I am down to my last 50 Kgs so I am more conservative with them. Make me an PM offer for the 50 Kgs I would love to see you "gift them away".
I am not trying to sell them, I am just amazed that you would do that, gift all the beans? Can you list a few qualified breeders in your list? 50 Kgs is 2.5 million seeds, what is the biggest grow you have heard of? If 1,000 plants you need to do it 2,500 times.... Even a 20,000 plant grow would need to be done 100+ times. Hope you have the land and tractors? As well as a place to dry, not to mention the manicuring.. Good thing the germ rate is only 17% you only need to do it 17 times X 20,000 plants. That seems almost easy...... LOL
-SamS

my vote would be atleast refresh the stock , even if it couldn't be done in the large volumes sam is accustomed too . better than gone forever . sam,s choice i guess . i,m sure there would be a long line of qualified breeders willing to take them .
 
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Dankwolf

Active member
With all that laughter, I have a couple of very interesting offers on the table to head some very large commercial grows. Guess my lack of experience(?) that I supposedly have doesn't seem to bother those folks.

I have farmed for more than 30 years, more crops than you can shake a stick at and in lots of different Countries in lots of different soils. Growing weed is an easy crop and not rocket science, soil science comes close though!

And EVERYONE that has asked for my help and gotten their soil analysis has GOTTEN very real results, so not a bad track record so far....

Seriously thinking about getting involve in one of these big legal grow monsters to add a bit more evolution to the industry, love variety trial work and getting consistency in the "field". Been doing trials for years looking at the best genetics under ideal growing conditions, this crop will be no different.

I would even argue that most breeders choose the wrong material. Laziness or lack of knowledge in their selection process due to not knowing how to dial in a soil far enough so that the crop can have a chance to show us what she is really capable of.

Those breeders that are in the right soils to begin with have a definite advantage as their seeds were developed in a heavy Ca soil and these traits are clear when in those conditions, yet take her out of optimum conditions and....

To the breeders downfall he has often selected seeds which were developed in optimum conditions but later were planted in much less than optimum conditions by some wannabe grower using Beebobs mix with a handful of woowoo juice bottles that do everything for everyone and even can get you to grow hair on your knuckles... haha.

Sat next to a guy from the World Bank once that was a seed specialist. He told me that his professor did an opposite trial, where instead of picking the best, he picked the worst. His professors argument is that plants have genetic memory and that often the best seed tries to adapt, it is this adaptation which often offers new possibilities. After several rounds he apparently demonstrated better results using the worst versus the best to develop the traits that they were after.

Stay tuned. Might be in the biz a lot faster than you might think...

Meeting with a couple of breeders at the cup, I want to find carbonate and sodium resistant seed lines. I am thinking of grafting and using root stocks too....

Come on slownickel just go get to hyped elite s and cross them once so you can be a real breeder lol.

Had to lightin the mood a bit.

 

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
Subbed

I'm after similar goals. I think that this has been a holy grail project for others for years. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned one of the Brothers Grimm most recent projects. Maybe it's not as much on blast as I thought. They have been working a new skunk line that I forget what the name is (if it even has a name yet?) If you scroll through their IG page or Duke Diamond you can find some pics of what I'm talking about.

For me I'm using the Dank Zappa line from Bodhi and Star Dawg IX from Top Dawg Seeds currently with the next round of beans to get wet being Skunk 91 from Bodhi that is the Chem 91 JB cut crossed with a male "RKS" Afghani. The only drawback there with those is that the line isn't stable and is only suggested for outdoor use. I heard from another grower that F2'd his pack said that they RKS leaning phenos were the unstable ones too, figures.

Sorry for going on a tangent, just know that this is a common goal others are searching for. Not to be confused with competing but hopefully helping out one another towards a common end goal.

I'll definitely be following with interest :yes:
 

Dankwolf

Active member
Subbed

I'm after similar goals. I think that this has been a holy grail project for others for years. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned one of the Brothers Grimm most recent projects. Maybe it's not as much on blast as I thought. They have been working a new skunk line that I forget what the name is (if it even has a name yet?) If you scroll through their IG page or Duke Diamond you can find some pics of what I'm talking about.

For me I'm using the Dank Zappa line from Bodhi and Star Dawg IX from Top Dawg Seeds currently with the next round of beans to get wet being Skunk 91 from Bodhi that is the Chem 91 JB cut crossed with a male "RKS" Afghani. The only drawback there with those is that the line isn't stable and is only suggested for outdoor use. I heard from another grower that F2'd his pack said that they RKS leaning phenos were the unstable ones too, figures.

Sorry for going on a tangent, just know that this is a common goal others are searching for. Not to be confused with competing but hopefully helping out one another towards a common end goal.

I'll definitely be following with interest :yes:

All useful input "who dat is "

In my limited experience th rks smell doea not carry over well . not even in a pure rks to rks s1 .

If we all pitch together we will bring it back 100% fact

I like the sound pf your project people i think are finally relizing the Afghan and its importance . thank you for your input and i look forward to collaborating with any and all willing to do so.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Nah, not my thing. There is plenty of good talent out there in breeding. I am an agronomist and farmer.

I know my limitations.

Who is a good talent at breeding that really understands the genetics of Cannabis? I have my doubts as I know many or most of them, few really deeply understand plant breeding.

BTW agronomist includes plant breeding and genetics.

I am more a breeder then farmer, even though I did take Organic Bio-Dynamic French Intensive gardening classes with Alan Chadwick at UCSC back in 1972, and have grown many veggies and fruit in my time, and made my own fruit and veggie seeds for the gardens I grew. With the help of the SSE to get heritage varieties to start with, I am a lifetime member. In general a good organic gardener can grow great Cannabis if he has the right varieties, good environment, and a little correct advice. I have seen it over and over.
When I breed I need to be able to farm, I grow them big to see their full potential, and I grow many plants because I believe in selection on a massive scale.
-SamS
 

Tonygreen

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thank god we didn't wait for all the PhDs to breed cannabis or we'd all still be waiting. The unknown breeders have as a whole probably contributed more than any phd has. The Mexicans who bred corn from maize must have been loaded with university lads.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I really only want to work with NLD tropical varieties, I do not like the effects of most WLD, they are much more stoney then high, and I like to get way to high, not loaded. That and most WLD and their hybrids are susceptible to botrytis and PM, something that I seldom find in tropical NLD's. Lastly have you ever tried to grow a field of WLD varieties in a tropical area? They get a few feet tall, the photoperiod is just to short for them to perform well.
When I made s1 populations I did find the RKS smell was still dominate.
-SamS



All useful input "who dat is "

In my limited experience th rks smell doea not carry over well . not even in a pure rks to rks s1 .

If we all pitch together we will bring it back 100% fact

I like the sound pf your project people i think are finally relizing the Afghan and its importance . thank you for your input and i look forward to collaborating with any and all willing to do so.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
So do you really think that the unknown breeders will be the industry leaders in the future? Why do I doubt this?
-SamS


Thank god we didn't wait for all the PhDs to breed cannabis or we'd all still be waiting. The unknown breeders have as a whole probably contributed more than any phd has. The Mexicans who bred corn from maize must have been loaded with university lads.

Hybrid corn the industry standard, was developed by PHd breeders not mexican campesinos.
-SamS
 
B

BAKED_BEANZ

.
I know of few Cannabis breeders that have any real knowledge of actual plant breeding. Even if they do exist they are not working with the numbers it takes to do real Cannabis breeding like I like.
I know lots of great Cannabis selectors, they can pick the best before they smoke them. But genetics takes education, to do it right and few Cannabis breeders have a formal education in plant breeding. This will change now that Cannabis is getting legal and educated breeders will be willing to devote their lives to breeding legal Cannabis varieties.
I am not trying to say that all PHD plant breeders can breed great Cannabis, they need years of Cannabis experience, or help from others that do have this.
Ask your favorite Cannabis breeder if they have a formal plant breeding education or if they have ever bred any crop besides Cannabis? If so are the varieties used?
This will all change, many students in Universities are considering Cannabis as a crop to improve, and I have no doubt they will change the way we all look at Cannabis in the near future when molecular biology and DNA methods allow the use of marker assisted breeding with Cannabis. I hope there are thousands of real plant breeders working with Cannabis in the near future, but we are not there yet.

As for me giving them away, how about you buy them and then you gift them away? I spent years of time and my money to make these I would like a small return for the time and money I spent, but I am sure if you had them you would just hand them out? I have done so in the past, I have given kilos of these same seeds away, just for the fun of it, but I had hundreds of Kgs of them at the time, now I am down to my last 50 Kgs so I am more conservative with them. Make me an PM offer for the 50 Kgs I would love to see you "gift them away".
I am not trying to sell them, I am just amazed that you would do that, gift all the beans? Can you list a few qualified breeders in your list? 50 Kgs is 2.5 million seeds, what is the biggest grow you have heard of? If 1,000 plants you need to do it 2,500 times.... Even a 20,000 plant grow would need to be done 100+ times. Hope you have the land and tractors? As well as a place to dry, not to mention the manicuring.. Good thing the germ rate is only 17% you only need to do it 17 times X 20,000 plants. That seems almost easy...... LOL
-SamS
hay sam , i probably would gift them away . if it was my interest i certainly would make you an offer .
i wasn't trying to devalue your work more not let them slip away and continue the legacy and reputation you made with them . they are holy grail status too some
i cant even count the amount of threads i,ve seen started on this topic .

what would be the germ rate if you hold them another 5 or 10 years ? as i said yours to do with as you like . and i,m sure you have gifted more seed than most alive in commercial circles .
 
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