mathewscott
New member
Do they work? Are the worth the money?
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Far red initiator
- Thread starter mathewscott
- Start date
Lost in a SOG
GrassSnakeGenetics
Yes far red if used to simulate dusk will bring on flower faster as the plants accept their fate sooner.
Yes far red is also involved in shade avoidance in plants as this spectrum is quite poorly absorbed relative to red, this means plants will stretch the more you use relative to red light.
This is largely why hps plants stretch so much more than white LED grown.. you dont want much far red in your grow through the day as this will cause much excess stretching, so it is best used to top up on far red at lights off.
However its a useful tool right? Like anything, not a magic bullet, if you want to change the morphology of a squater plant that might end up more compact than you want you can use far red as a means of shaping the plant to your desire.. helping reduce bud rot and increasing yield as well because more light can hit longer stems and more air can move around the flowers..
Yes far red is also involved in shade avoidance in plants as this spectrum is quite poorly absorbed relative to red, this means plants will stretch the more you use relative to red light.
This is largely why hps plants stretch so much more than white LED grown.. you dont want much far red in your grow through the day as this will cause much excess stretching, so it is best used to top up on far red at lights off.
However its a useful tool right? Like anything, not a magic bullet, if you want to change the morphology of a squater plant that might end up more compact than you want you can use far red as a means of shaping the plant to your desire.. helping reduce bud rot and increasing yield as well because more light can hit longer stems and more air can move around the flowers..
hyposomniac
Active member
In my unscientific observations, 5 minutes after lights out speeds up the start of flower
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Posted this recently:
The phytochromes are a family of chromoproteins with a linear tetrapyrrole chromophore, similar to the ringed tetrapyrrole light-absorbing head group of chlorophyll. Phytochromes have two photo-interconvertible forms: Pr and Pfr.
Pr absorbs red light (~660nm - ~729nm) and is immediately converted to Pfr.
Pfr absorbs far-red light (~730nm - ~800nm) and is quickly converted back to Pr.
Pfr naturally converts to Pr in darkness over time (after about 2 - 2.5 hours)
Absorption of red or far-red light causes a massive change to the shape of the chromophore, altering the conformation and activity of the phytochrome protein to which it is bound. Pfr is the physiologically active form of the protein; therefore, exposure to red light yields physiological activity. Exposure to far-red light inhibits phytochrome activity. Together, the two forms represent the phytochrome system.
Unfiltered sunlight is rich in red light but deficient in far-red light. Therefore, at sunrise, all the phytochrome molecules in a leaf quickly convert to the active Pfr form, and remain in that form until sunset. In the dark, the Pfr form takes hours to slowly revert back to the Pr form. By sensing the Pr/Pfr ratio at sunrise, a plant can determine the length of the day/night cycle. In addition, leaves retain that information for several days, allowing a comparison between the length of the previous night and the preceding several nights. If the night is long (as in winter), all of the Pfr form reverts. If the night is short (as in summer), a considerable amount of Pfr may remain at sunrise.
Link to source:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ivytech-bio1-1/chapter/plant-responses-to-light/
So to clear up any confusion:
Its the ratio of how much time either Pr or Pfr is the active phytochrome that dictates the flowering response in short day plants like cannabis.
Red light between 660nm - 729nm converts Pr in the plant to Pfr which helps the plant remain in veg.
Infra red light between 730nm - 800nm converts Pfr in the plant to Pr which helps the plant begin flowering.
Naturally at sundown/lights out it takes around 2 - 2.5 hours of uninterrupted darkness before PFR begins converting to PR. Then the plant needs 10 more hours uninterrupted darkness to shift towards flowering expression totaling 12 hours dark. My research suggests blasting plants with 730nm far red for 30 minutes after sundown/lights off will force plants to flower with only 10 hours darkness since your not having to wait the 2 - 2.5 hours for PFR to convert to PR naturally. This could be used to make outdoor and greenhouse plants begin and finish flowering earlier in the season, have not tried it myself.
The phytochromes are a family of chromoproteins with a linear tetrapyrrole chromophore, similar to the ringed tetrapyrrole light-absorbing head group of chlorophyll. Phytochromes have two photo-interconvertible forms: Pr and Pfr.
Pr absorbs red light (~660nm - ~729nm) and is immediately converted to Pfr.
Pfr absorbs far-red light (~730nm - ~800nm) and is quickly converted back to Pr.
Pfr naturally converts to Pr in darkness over time (after about 2 - 2.5 hours)
Absorption of red or far-red light causes a massive change to the shape of the chromophore, altering the conformation and activity of the phytochrome protein to which it is bound. Pfr is the physiologically active form of the protein; therefore, exposure to red light yields physiological activity. Exposure to far-red light inhibits phytochrome activity. Together, the two forms represent the phytochrome system.
Unfiltered sunlight is rich in red light but deficient in far-red light. Therefore, at sunrise, all the phytochrome molecules in a leaf quickly convert to the active Pfr form, and remain in that form until sunset. In the dark, the Pfr form takes hours to slowly revert back to the Pr form. By sensing the Pr/Pfr ratio at sunrise, a plant can determine the length of the day/night cycle. In addition, leaves retain that information for several days, allowing a comparison between the length of the previous night and the preceding several nights. If the night is long (as in winter), all of the Pfr form reverts. If the night is short (as in summer), a considerable amount of Pfr may remain at sunrise.
Link to source:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ivytech-bio1-1/chapter/plant-responses-to-light/
So to clear up any confusion:
Its the ratio of how much time either Pr or Pfr is the active phytochrome that dictates the flowering response in short day plants like cannabis.
Red light between 660nm - 729nm converts Pr in the plant to Pfr which helps the plant remain in veg.
Infra red light between 730nm - 800nm converts Pfr in the plant to Pr which helps the plant begin flowering.
Naturally at sundown/lights out it takes around 2 - 2.5 hours of uninterrupted darkness before PFR begins converting to PR. Then the plant needs 10 more hours uninterrupted darkness to shift towards flowering expression totaling 12 hours dark. My research suggests blasting plants with 730nm far red for 30 minutes after sundown/lights off will force plants to flower with only 10 hours darkness since your not having to wait the 2 - 2.5 hours for PFR to convert to PR naturally. This could be used to make outdoor and greenhouse plants begin and finish flowering earlier in the season, have not tried it myself.
I got one the other day. I am going to give it a try. Not going with the longer day as I am already in flower and don't want to change to much. I may try it next round.
Read an article recently that pointed out the good old incandescent bulb run at a way lower current than spec so they have a dull red glow last forever and are nearly 90% efficient at producing far red + near infrared light. The suck at making blue light, but it turns out they can can make NIR like crazy.
G
Guest
https://www.rapidled.com/supplemental/
He sells these as well as individual Cree LEDs, drivers and everything you need. Last year I bought a couple kits he was selling for near and far red to supplement my Timber light. I don’t see those kits listed at the moment but they were VERY GOOD at responding to several emails and helped me figure out what I needed for my size tent and all the parts including heat sink and connecting wires in different lengths. I like the near red addition for flower and I plug it into the timer for my main light.
The far red on separate timer comes on 5 minutes before lights out and stays on for 7 minutes after lights out.
I have seen how quick the plants do that sleep droop thing compared to just turning the light off.
I can’t vouch for taking days off since in the past I grow different strains each run. That’s changing though this year with working on building clones and bonsai moms.
He sells these as well as individual Cree LEDs, drivers and everything you need. Last year I bought a couple kits he was selling for near and far red to supplement my Timber light. I don’t see those kits listed at the moment but they were VERY GOOD at responding to several emails and helped me figure out what I needed for my size tent and all the parts including heat sink and connecting wires in different lengths. I like the near red addition for flower and I plug it into the timer for my main light.
The far red on separate timer comes on 5 minutes before lights out and stays on for 7 minutes after lights out.
I have seen how quick the plants do that sleep droop thing compared to just turning the light off.
I can’t vouch for taking days off since in the past I grow different strains each run. That’s changing though this year with working on building clones and bonsai moms.
morgandecaptain
Active member
I've been using 730 nm for a phytochrome trigger for 5+ years and it works great. You can also increase your light schedule up to 14/10 with most strains to increase yield.
morgandecaptain
Active member
As a flower initiator it only takes 5 minutes of very little 730 nm after the main lights go out to flip the plant. The first 730 nm FI I bought years ago was only 10 watts and covered a 8x8 area easily. With the increase in output and efficiency of the latest gen 730 nm LEDS I can see using even less. My latest unit is from HLG the original maker of Quantum Boards and can just be plugged into any outlet and it's ready to go. It has a photo cell so no timer is needed and the photo cell sensitivity and time on are adjustable. You can use it with a 12/12 schedule straight through flower or you can increase yield even more by doing 12/12 the first and last week of lower and up to 14/10 in between.
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/flowering-initator-development-kit
methias
Active member
HI people,
I have been using one deep red COB and a couple of diy QB's made from deep red strip lights mounted on pieces of sheet aluminum for my last four grows. They switch on 15 minutes before the rest of the lights and off 15 minutes after the rest turn off.
Now I am always making little improvements to my grow box and so I can't be absolutely 100% positive that the red is fully responsible for the increase in my yields. Things did however ramp up when I added the red COB & strip QB's.
Having issues with pics right now.
I'll edit and add a pic or two in a few.
Here you go.
it's hard to focus well in red
she likes the morning red dawn.
Vape On boys and girls.....
I have been using one deep red COB and a couple of diy QB's made from deep red strip lights mounted on pieces of sheet aluminum for my last four grows. They switch on 15 minutes before the rest of the lights and off 15 minutes after the rest turn off.
Now I am always making little improvements to my grow box and so I can't be absolutely 100% positive that the red is fully responsible for the increase in my yields. Things did however ramp up when I added the red COB & strip QB's.
Having issues with pics right now.
I'll edit and add a pic or two in a few.
Here you go.
Vape On boys and girls.....
Last edited:
hyposomniac
Active member
HI people,
I have been using one deep red COB and a couple of diy QB's made from deep red strip lights mounted on pieces of sheet aluminum for my last four grows. They switch on 15 minutes before the rest of the lights and off 15 minutes after the rest turn off.
Now I am always making little improvements to my grow box and so I can't be absolutely 100% positive that the red is fully responsible for the increase in my yields. Things did however ramp up when I added the red COB & strip QB's.
Having issues with pics right now.
I'll edit and add a pic or two in a few.
Here you go.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=80413&pictureid=1950017&thumb=1]View Image[/url] it's hard to focus well in red
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=80413&pictureid=1950016&thumb=1]View Image[/url] she likes the morning red dawn.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=80413&pictureid=1950018&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
Vape On boys and girls.....
Heyo, got any links to those far red strips? My rapidled Puck shit the bed after dropping it for the 100th time
