Bay Area pot raids net 10 arrests and 22 pounds of marijuana

i don't care what it costs, im glad to see these, and any other FOBs doing the same, get rolled up like a burrito.

Hydrosun said:

There is NO SUCH THING as ILLEGITIMATE cannabis sales. Unless you are talking about a fraud where someone pretends to sell cannabis but it is really something else.

You need to switch your paradigm. Just because I was born in an evil land where evil men outlawed a plant, does not mean my choice to grow and share that plant is illegitimate.

It may not be MY market, because by definition a market is the sum economic activity of all participants; but what I know for certain is this multi billion dollar industry is LEGITIMATE and will never be controlled by immoral prohibitionists.

My guess is you are not part of this market, or you would know that the price of cannabis IS decreasing despite the immoral prohibitions and the real expense and risk associated with circumventing them.

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks that growing in houses is the most efficient way to cultivate cannabis, but since prohibitions still exist many use residential buildings to circumvent immoral prohibitions.

Thanks for the economics lesson but there is no inherent ability for a corporation to out produce a sole proprietorship or any other flavor of business entity.

You see production comes from working farmers and invested capital, even hippy collectives running at a non profit pace can have farmers and capital.

As to what will be produced by which businesses; if cannabis follows other intoxicants then there will be the Budweisers of the world and there will be great micro breweries that receive a very large premium over mass produced crap.

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First off, illegitimate = illegal. Technically marijuana isn't legal anywhere but there are certain states that have made it legal in their jurisdiction.

Corporations would definitely benefit as far as economies of scale. Furthermore corporations real tax rate is far lower than the average person's tax rate. Look at a corporate financial statement sometime dude. That's not even including the benefits from being able to get large amounts of capital through stock issuance.

It doesn't matter how much profit margin they are making now, although i'm curious to find out how microbreweries profit margins fair. We would need to find out how real average prices for alcohol changed from prohibition to when prohibition was repealed. But alcohol wasn't illegal nearly as long as marijuana.

"Fisher used retail alcohol prices to demonstrate that Prohibition was working by raising the price and decreasing the quantity produced. However, his price quotations also revealed that the Iron Law of Prohibition was at work. The price of beer increased by more than 700 percent, and that of brandies increased by 433 percent, but spirit prices in creased by only 270 percent, which led to an absolute increase in the consumption of spirits over pre-Prohibition levels.(15)"
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/alcohol/pa-157.html


and apparently, it's not that easy being a microbrewer.. it's pretty hard and there is a high chance for failure(bankruptcy)
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-3421.html

everyone knows marijuana prices have been going down, i'm saying that prices will continue to go down if legalization continues. It will continue until it may not be worth the trouble of growing for the common person.

Andrew Carnage wasn't a corporation and managed to do just fine. Facebook hasn't held a public offering but seems to do just fine funding its operations. As I said hippy collectives can raise capital and labor. There is no inherent advantage over one business entity or the other. New Belgium brewery (fat tire beer) is employee owned but Anheuser Bush is not putting them out of business. These hippys even use renewable energy.

Illegitimate = Immoral (see bastard or child out of wedlock). Now being that my moral compass tells me cannabis is fine and natural just like any other flower therefore it is not a BASTARD or ILLEGITIMATE.

There is great chance of failure in any business enterprise, that is why most sheeple are employees or moochers on the government dole and not business owners.

The fact that cannabis prices are falling makes moot the historical connection to the economics of alcohol prohibition.

I agree that when legalized and regulated like beer most of us wont brew our own beer.

But I don't agree that beer was illegitimate during prohibition any more than it is illegitimate for me to be drinking one today.

I'm fine with your use of illegal, humans have had to suffer many injustices throughout history because of immoral laws. That is why I don't judge others based on temporary laws, I try to use a filter of morality based on man's natural metaphysics (natural law).

SicKSKills said:

i don't care what it costs, im glad to see these, and any other FOBs doing the same, get rolled up like a burrito.

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Couldn't you even get rolled up like an egg roll? Sad how incompetent America's bigots have become.

Hydrosun said:

Andrew Carnage wasn't a corporation and managed to do just fine. Facebook hasn't held a public offering but seems to do just fine funding its operations. As I said hippy collectives can raise capital and labor. There is no inherent advantage over one business entity or the other. New Belgium brewery (fat tire beer) is employee owned but Anheuser Bush is not putting them out of business. These hippys even use renewable energy.

Illegitimate = Immoral (see bastard or child out of wedlock). Now being that my moral compass tells me cannabis is fine and natural just like any other flower therefore it is not a BASTARD or ILLEGITIMATE.

There is great chance of failure in any business enterprise, that is why most sheeple are employees or moochers on the government dole and not business owners.

The fact that cannabis prices are falling makes moot the historical connection to the economics of alcohol prohibition.

I agree that when legalized and regulated like beer most of us wont brew our own beer.

But I don't agree that beer was illegitimate during prohibition any more than it is illegitimate for me to be drinking one today.

I'm fine with your use of illegal, humans have had to suffer many injustices throughout history because of immoral laws. That is why I don't judge others based on temporary laws, I try to use a filter of morality based on man's natural metaphysics (natural law).

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there is two definitions for illegitimate. "contrary to or forbidden by law" this is one of them and the one i meant. I don't see anything wrong buying or selling or smoking weed. i meant to refer to illegal sales that a "gang" may be more prone to participate in.

Each class of ownership has its pros and cons. for corporations, one major pro is access to capital to fund growth. one major con is double taxation(corporate income tax, dividend income tax)

I don't think it's a coincidence that prices in California and Oregon are particularly low and prices in Connecticut and New York are particularly high.

The future prices will basically determine whether it's worth it for the common person to grow themselves. I see the prices reaching the point where most consumers wouldn't grow. Also alcohol prices of post prohibition compared to prohibition is very similar to marijuana because marijuana is currently prohibited but in the process of made legal(high risk to low risk)

The police love over-reacting.

This past July my home was raided by two SWAT teams. Flashbang grenades, riot shields, assault rifles and combat shotguns.

They found 6 ounces of cannabis. 5 grams of shrooms. 6 clones weighing a total of 3.7g. Multiple pipes/bongs, etc. Not to mention - front page of the newspaper.

A so-called friend of mine called me up one day and asked f I knew where he could get any bud because his "normal" guy was dry. I've known the guy for 9-10 years, talk(ed) to him on a weekly basis, and regularly toked up. I obliged to sell him a bag for less than 1/2 the local prices (Locally, $120 for a quarter of dank) at a quarter for $50. He wore a wire during this transaction to get himself out of a probation violation for being under the influence of alcohol. My court papers stated that he was a confidential informant and had been for the past 5 years. Anyway, the following day, my door was busted down. I'm now facing a 19-year sentence and go to court for sentencing in 2 weeks. Thanks to my amazing girlfriend who helped me pay for my lawyer as all of my financial assets were seized as well, I'm currently out on bond on home detention. My lawyer has negotiated for a serious reduction in sentence - 19 years down to 3 years - of which I've served about 10 months of with jail time and house arrest. He told me I should expect to finish up 1 year on house arrest (Late April) and then receive 2 years probation. It has cost me quite a bit - 3 months in jail (credit for 6 months) which caused me to lose my job, $105/wk for home detention ($2190 as of the last payment), $5,000 for the attorney (Public defender was going to get me 8 years in prison), $35 per weekly session of outpatient drug treatment (voluntary- $700 as of last payment.) I've since found another job, one that pays less than half of what my old job did.

Lesson learned - don't trust anyone, and don't ever sell a single gram. Which really sucks for a lot of my friends because while I'm not a dealer, I did enjoy seeing their reactions when I weighed out the bag and told them how much.

Oh well, I'll just be giving away anything I don't smoke from here on out.

il·le·git·i·mate/ˌiləˈjitəmit/Adjective
1. Not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules:

i almost forgot what the hell we were talking about, lol, ok, so...this is the definition i was referring to,, and yes, i also agree, with the fact that prices for weed will eventually drop, i mean, its been 50 an 1/8 for a very long time, i dont know about the east coast, ive never been, but i know at least since i was in high school, (87), its been 45-50 1/8, if it is made legal, and mass produced, obviously it might get as cheap as a grits, but i honestly think, the gov. wont do it, because it is making more money having it be illegal, (in oooh so many ways), i know for a fact boarder patrol catch more weed mules, than any other kind,( lol, doobie duck put up a post about em even catapulting bails of weed over the fence)., my point being, work would slow down for them (government employed boarder patrol)here by the T.J. boarder,dea, atf, alot of agencies, weed is at the front of the line for cartels, hundreds of thousands of acres being raped, and pillaged, (here, in America, and in Mexico) to provide brick weed for the cartels, and this kind of crap is going on in oakland, where it seems or at least used to seem to be one of the most liberal cities in Ca. about growing, im just rambling, sorry,

Vietnamese gangs behind almost all of these busts. Shut down 10 grow homes and 20 more pop up. With so much funding, one wonders why they don't just go legit by doing what Moonshine does (1/2 mil mmj facility.) I suppose being immune to legal problems (growers are lowest on the hierarchy), the black market is still too good to pass up.

You mean those 10 weren't ring leaders!!!!

I thought the government had dealt a huge blow to organized crime?

ya, ok, how many asian gangs are there in the bay area, and S.F., .......ya, and i doubt any of these people were ring leaders, maybe thats what the cops want everyone to believe, but these people were pawns, or it was a staged event, and they prolly wouldnt have even gotten f-d with if they werent stealing power, (now i remember what i was talking about),

Tired of ity bity 22lbs bust and organized gangs. Legalize it

When well these Asian cats get it....stealing power and having straps...no wonder they cant grow good herb

The way I look at it is we as growers are part of a big herd, and the cops are the lions, the lions are going to get someone, I think it's nice that the Vietnamese are playing the part of the slow, dumb herd members.

As long as there's enough easy targets in the herd to keep the lions happy, the rest of us can slide by unnoticed

I think these Vietnamese growers just make up a large percentage of total grows. They're immigrants and do not know the environment here as well as Americans. Also they probably prefer to sell it on the black market because the higher prices.

ok, i put this in another forum, but it look like it would fit in here, this is on the other side of the bay, in S.F., i got a good laugh out of it,


When San Francisco narcotics officers showed up at a Castro District home early on the morning of January 11, they had a search warrant for "proceeds" from an illegal marijuana grow.


But the SFPD and federal DEA officers didn't find any cannabis cash at that address, one of six raided simultaneously that morning, reports Chris Roberts at SF Weekly.


Instead, they found Clark Freshman, a UC Hastings law professor and the main consultant to the TV show Lie To Me.


Freshman was handcuffed while in his bathrobe as agents searched, despite his insistence that they had the wrong place and were breaking the law.


"I told them to call the judge and get their warrant updated," Freshman said. "They just laughed at me -- I guess that's why they're called pigs."


Soon the porcine police may be defendants, in addition to douche bags. Freshman, who is furious about the incident, has pledged to sue the DEA and the SFPD for unlawful search and seizure of his home.



Photo: UC Hastings
Professor of Law Clark Freshman: "There will not be a better litigated case this century"

​"I've been on the fence for years about the legalization of drugs ... and now I'm a victim of this crazy War On Drugs," Freshman said.


He pledged to sue until "I see [the agents'] houses sold at auction and their kids' college tuitions taken away from them."


"There will not be a better litigated case this century," Freshman said.


Freshman isn't just frontin' -- he has plenty of firepower to back up his claim. He received his B.A. from Harvard, where his senior thesis facilitated a pardon in the infamous Leo Frank case. He got his M.A. from University College, Oxford, where he was a Marshall Scholar, and a J.D. from Stanford Law School, according to the University of California, Hastings College of the Law.


For more, read Chris Roberts' story at SF Weekly.

I've read a few bust stories now and dont understand, why not grow what you need to smoke and tell nobody? As a person on page 2 said knew a friend for 9 years then BAM jail and hard earned money gone! If you wanna go big, might as well wear pink panties because sooner or later you are gonna be screwed!

It's a no-brainer,it was a SNITCH,in a "targeted" investigation.

Asian gangs inform on each other ALL the time-duh.

**people inform on each other.

yep, Rat fur comes in many colors

Hydrosun said:

This is the perfect place to discuss "Cops losing the drug war."

This "Gang" of 10 middle aged immigrants has now been put out of business at the expense of the tax payers of America and CA.

What do these tax payers get? $100K, 22lbs of weed off the street and 10 individuals in California no longer cultivating cannabis.

What did it cost the tax payers? ????????? I guess transparency in government spending is a really low priority. I could only guess at the costs involved; but they did mention DEA, Imigration, and Local authorities (from several counties). So my guess is the costs of this are already in the millions and after the trials, deportations, or incarcerations it certainly will be multi millions.

What about this proposition: Police will never WIN a Drug War BECAUSE it is the very essence of HUMAN nature to take drugs and alter (escape) their reality.

Outlawing HUMAN NATURE does not abolish a behavior it only changes how that behavior is expressed.

As an example it is illegal to be gay in some nations around the globe, but I doubt the genetics of babies being born in those countries recognize this law.

The absolute failure of "The drug war" is evident by this story. If this is the best prohibitionists can do to scare the country into supporting them, they'll be unemployed sooner than I thought.

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wow.. i have a whole new respect for you. I strongly agree with everything you say. There are growers on this forum that grows in warehouses and people be praising them and yet when asians who get caught with 22 pounds and a couple of fire arms every1 goes nuts and say it gang related beaster grows..