MountainOrganics "New" No-Till Recipe Grow... Let's Do This!!

Hey all, I am transitioning from hydro to No-till gardening! I follow MountainOrganics (creator of the infamous NTG: Revisited thread) on Instagram and he recently made an IG post describing his "new" soil recipe which is simply:

Equal Parts:

1. Very High-Quality Compost (Malibu Compost works great)
2. Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
3. Aeration (Lava rock or Pumice)

Per Cu Ft of Base Soil:

• 8-10 Cups of BioChar
• 8-12 Cups of Rock Dust

That's it! No amendments! I even DM'd him on IG to ask him if the above recipe really doesn't need any amendments at all and his response was

No Need to! The beefed up minerals covers it all and biochar adds longevity!

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And if i am not mistaken he doesn't even use any kinds of teas, he just does water only! BUT he does do foliar sprays of his "tonics."

He has ventured into the cannabis business world and has his own line of bottled tonics that he sells. Apparently, these are the only foliar sprays he uses. So aside from water only he does foliar sprays and that's it! I hope to eventually dive further into the subject of his tonics, as I would love to try to emulate his tonics as much as possible, in hopes of finding what I'd like to call a bare-bones minimal-input no-till gardening system that produces quality crop.

Through this thread, I hope to learn more about soil and the life that comes with it, in general. I also hope my thread can maybe become an inspiration or maybe help someone(s) come to understand something they never completely understood before. Or I hope that this thread can maybe serve as a reference to any beginners starting up no-till soil and that others follow along to not only experience anything that I may share, but to also share any valuable information that can assist others!


With that being said I leave you with pics of my progress so far:







Brand new fresh soil! So far all I've done to it is get it wet. I plan to throw in some worms and some cover crops. Most likely cover crops will be clover, fenugreek, and maybe buckwheat or cowpeas.



I will be planting 5 plants. 3 are unsexed regular seedlings of the strain "Prayer Tower" by Bodhi. It is a cross of Appalachia and a sativa-dominant Lemon Thai. I will also be planting 2 Gorilla Bubble BX4 clones I have.

Il be the first to say VERY COOL!! I have spent the last year researching and acquiring a tonne of amendments, so of course as soon as I have it all and mix it up, someone goes out and does none of it. Very curious and excited to see how it turns out. I could see this work if you had some ace up your sleeve like homemade jacked up to the max EWC, or the biochar that was inoculated with a potent soak, but it looks like just regular unloaded biochar, and store-bought compost! So yeah, I'm doubtful, but looking forward to being surprised and learning a good lesson here.

Then again, you provided a link to his 600 page grasscity thread so the proof is already there. Looks like I got some reading to do.

I don't doubt that it should work though it may be slow going at first until the worms really have a chance to cycle through the soil and add their magic. I planted an avocado tree with 6 cubic feet of the base soil mix with minimal amendments added and it is one of the healthier avocado trees that I have seen around. There is a lot to be said for quality compost and worms in your soil.

I have found that using a nice thick layer of dry mulch consisting of straw or hay (I also like to add yarrow flowers, dandelion, borage, and/or lavender buds from around the yard for diversity) will break down nicely with time and give the worms an extra food source to chew on and cycle into your soil mix. From your pics I would guess that you live in a hot area and having a good mulch layer will help keep your soil moist.

I'm excited to see the progress and good luck!

We are following very similar paths although you have the luxury of using the sun! Our soil mixes are identical but I went the amendment route as has been traditional with this style. Hopefully you don’t mind but I posted a link to my thread on the subject below. Hopefully you’ll find some benefit! I’ll be subscribed to this so I can see the differences!

I’m like less than a week into this so it should be a nice parallel to your grow with very minimal differences in terms of soil structure and light source.

In theory the compost and castings that you’ll eventuallly get should provide everything required for success. Best of luck! I’ll be watching!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=353453

Wait...you did charge the Biochar first right?

For anyone that is enjoying the no till mofo thread or wants to learn more without going through all 600+ pages I will update this message with all the pages that MOFO makes his excellent extensive and detailed educational posts.

Hope OP doesn't mind. I will update this message once a week or so.

Here they are:

1
11
26

Something tells me the calcium won't be high enough and the micros will be out of whack

First image with the tarp all spread out, what’s in the brown bag to the right of the red bucket? What did you end up for as aeration?

2 questions

In what world is this no till?
What worms?

Tommysalami said:

First image with the tarp all spread out, what’s in the brown bag to the right of the red bucket? What did you end up for as aeration?

Click to expand...

I think the brown bag is rock dust, probably glacial rock dust.

That MOFO thread is good. I got about halfway through the ROLS and organics for beginners by burn one on here. but those are started 2009 ish and are long dead by now as far as any of the original posters being around. So its nice to have found a revisiting of those methods from those gurus. Already on page 50. Guess Im hooked. Up until that page he still uses amendments. Maybe later his technique changed, but I would think thats only possible because of building up his soil for years and years. I think if you buy a few bags and mix them together you will not get the same results. Those ingredients are meant as a good starting base and then adding worms and mulching everything continuously. That biochar will have had a chance to absorb everything he has put into his soil as well and give it that long term release. So the biochar is key here as well. But like Microbe mentioned its the worms that are the most important ingredient, as im sure you know having linked that thread, and you read it 600 pages and all. You did read it right? lol jk, but also not, you never know.

This is just my opinion based on my previous knowledge and having read the first 50 pages of that thread. I look forward to your grow and to reading the rest of the 600+ pages LOL

Microbeman said:

2 questions

In what world is this no till?
What worms?

Click to expand...

The next run might be no till. LOL . All no till must start somewhere I suppose. Unless its the ground.

everyones always caught up on amendments. notice how he used malibu compost??? the only bagged compost around that you should use. and i bet its better than some compost people here makeXD its made with EVERYTHING you may need. remember compost is all you need. its the one part. then you add minerals from rocks!? shiiiiiiit that just makes it killer. rocks make soil. always has. micro organisms break down rocks. turn it into soil, then plants grow, and grow, and grow for millions of years, with no one around spreading kelp meal in the forests.

arnt worms a givin when making notill??? like if someone says they doing notill why would someone ask if they are adding worms. obviously they are adding worms. notill.. whats that mean? oh right. not tilling your soil. thats what it is. you can do a notill in a 20gal pot. a 5 gal pot. a 1gal. all you gotta do it NOT TILL. simple

wiki is great.
No-till farming (also called zero tillage or direct drilling) is a way of growing crops or pasture from year to year without disturbing the soil through tillage.

sooooooo that said. if you mix a good soil and you leave it in the pot year after year. never disturbed. ever. that is considered no till. you cant just magicly have a pot that is 5 years old unless you start one today!

also this is why i left forums, people being dicks instead of being polite. if youre not smart enough to understand how to google what no till is then come in here like "in what world is this no till" then just repeat what your momma said "if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all"

Newguy, sorry for the rant. stay off the forums unless you wanna have everyone out there tell you youre doing it wrong.

lotus710 said:

everyones always caught up on amendments. notice how he used malibu compost??? the only bagged compost around that you should use. and i bet its better than some compost people here makeXD its made with EVERYTHING you may need. remember compost is all you need. its the one part. then you add minerals from rocks!? shiiiiiiit that just makes it killer. rocks make soil. always has. micro organisms break down rocks. turn it into soil, then plants grow, and grow, and grow for millions of years, with no one around spreading kelp meal in the forests.

arnt worms a givin when making notill??? like if someone says they doing notill why would someone ask if they are adding worms. obviously they are adding worms. notill.. whats that mean? oh right. not tilling your soil. thats what it is. you can do a notill in a 20gal pot. a 5 gal pot. a 1gal. all you gotta do it NOT TILL. simple

wiki is great.
No-till farming (also called zero tillage or direct drilling) is a way of growing crops or pasture from year to year without disturbing the soil through tillage.

sooooooo that said. if you mix a good soil and you leave it in the pot year after year. never disturbed. ever. that is considered no till. you cant just magicly have a pot that is 5 years old unless you start one today!

also this is why i left forums, people being dicks instead of being polite. if youre not smart enough to understand how to google what no till is then come in here like "in what world is this no till" then just repeat what your momma said "if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all"

Newguy, sorry for the rant. stay off the forums unless you wanna have everyone out there tell you youre doing it wrong.

Click to expand...

Thank you Lotus for echoing what I wanted to express to the others, but personally didn't feel "qualified" to! When it comes to No-till, and pretty much growing in general, I am new. I have a couple of great hydro harvests under my belt (thanks to delta9nxs and his PPK setup and his personal guidance), but none with soil. I can't say with confidence that I am going to fucking crush grows with this "no-till soil recipe" but I will dare say with confidence that MOFO's holistic approach to no-till gardening is one all growers should take heed to and respect. And I have so much respect for MOFO himself and what he's done for the community that I would gladly take his "updated" recipe and run with it TO A TEE! and yes, i understand people on the forums can be quick to scrutinize. Everyone likes to get their 2 cents in sometimes I guess. But that can be a good thing sometimes!

PaulieWaulie said:

of course as soon as I have it all and mix it up, someone goes out and does none of it. Very curious and excited to see how it turns out. I could see this work if you had some ace up your sleeve like homemade jacked up to the max EWC, or the biochar that was inoculated with a potent soak, but it looks like just regular unloaded biochar, and store-bought compost! So yeah, I'm doubtful, but looking forward to being surprised and learning a good lesson here.

Then again, you provided a link to his 600 page grasscity thread so the proof is already there. Looks like I got some reading to do.

Click to expand...

Welcome! and thanks for following along. Yep, uncharged Biochar because MOFO himself says charging biochar is a myth! Hope to surprise you with a stellar grow!

Tommysalami said:

Wait...you did charge the Biochar first right?

Click to expand...

Nope! If you click on the link to MOFO's IG post in post #1 of this thread and read the comments you will see someone asking MOFO if he charges the biochar. His response is that having to charge biochar is a myth! But he does go on to say that quality biochar is still preferred, not just any biochar

PaulieWaulie said:

For anyone that is enjoying the no till mofo thread or wants to learn more without going through all 600+ pages I will update this message with all the pages that MOFO makes his excellent extensive and detailed educational posts.

Hope OP doesn't mind. I will update this message once a week or so.

Here they are:

1
11
26

Click to expand...

nice! wish i could've had someone point me straight where i needed to go. hope you are able to update your post accordingly

paradoxlost said:

Something tells me the calcium won't be high enough and the micros will be out of whack

Click to expand...

Follow along and find out!

Tommysalami said:

First image with the tarp all spread out, what’s in the brown bag to the right of the red bucket? What did you end up for as aeration?

Click to expand...

It's a 44 lb. bag of Cascade Minerals Rock Dust which is derived from basalt. I used three bags total to make 150 gallons (20 cubic feet calls for 160 to 200 cups of rock dust according to MOFO's recipe)

Microbeman said:

2 questions

In what world is this no till?
What worms?

Click to expand...

On Earth, where I won't be tilling it? Are you saying this isn't no-till because you see a pile of freshly-made soil being "tilled?" lol. Can you elaborate on what you mean please?

PaulieWaulie said:

That MOFO thread is good. I got about halfway through the ROLS and organics for beginners by burn one on here. but those are started 2009 ish and are long dead by now as far as any of the original posters being around. So its nice to have found a revisiting of those methods from those gurus. Already on page 50. Guess Im hooked. Up until that page he still uses amendments. Maybe later his technique changed, but I would think thats only possible because of building up his soil for years and years. I think if you buy a few bags and mix them together you will not get the same results. Those ingredients are meant as a good starting base and then adding worms and mulching everything continuously. That biochar will have had a chance to absorb everything he has put into his soil as well and give it that long term release. So the biochar is key here as well. But like Microbe mentioned its the worms that are the most important ingredient, as im sure you know having linked that thread, and you read it 600 pages and all. You did read it right?

lol jk, but also not, you never know.

This is just my opinion based on my previous knowledge and having read the first 50 pages of that thread. I look forward to your grow and to reading the rest of the 600+ pages LOL

The next run might be no till. LOL . All no till must start somewhere I suppose. Unless its the ground.

Click to expand...

I would recommend you follow @MountainOrganics on Instagram for his latest ventures and ideas. I don't think he has been caring to update his NTG: Revisited thread as of late. That thread is constantly being added to by the community though, so it is definitely still a great resource for learning about No-Till

Well just for the hell of it I had to mix another batch of soil to satisfy 2 more of my beds. I did NOT charge the biochar so if there’s a difference, it should be obvious in my journal. Thanks for the info on the rock dust, I used brix blend basalt so it came in a different container. Other that I see all the same ingredients I used. Your close up shot looks IDENTICAL to my mix. BTW that Malibu feels like straight gold. Only comparable compost I’ve seen is the stuff I’ve been helping grandma make since I could walk. Not sure if you got em but I found about 2 dozen worms in 8 bags of the Malibu, nice way to start things off.

What did you think of that rock dust? The brix blend I used looks like straight ground steel and is HEAVY. Definitely has magnetic properties. I’m assuming my iron levels will be high until things start to balance. So far so good.

Don’t let the haters get to you, fuck em. No one will be saying shit in October when you’ve got a wheel barrel full of chronic to trim.

Guess I will have to get on IG finally. By the way no hate from me here, ofcourse this method goes against the whole amendment recipe theory I have been studying for a year, but Im just switching to organics as well, and like you I do question almost everything, and like to do side by sides to see what works and what doesn't, so really I know as little as you, if not less! So I look forward to your growing season.

Tommysalami said:

Well just for the hell of it I had to mix another batch of soil to satisfy 2 more of my beds. I did NOT charge the biochar so if there’s a difference, it should be obvious in my journal. Thanks for the info on the rock dust, I used brix blend basalt so it came in a different container. Other that I see all the same ingredients I used. Your close up shot looks IDENTICAL to my mix. BTW that Malibu feels like straight gold. Only comparable compost I’ve seen is the stuff I’ve been helping grandma make since I could walk. Not sure if you got em but I found about 2 dozen worms in 8 bags of the Malibu, nice way to start things off.

What did you think of that rock dust? The brix blend I used looks like straight ground steel and is HEAVY. Definitely has magnetic properties. I’m assuming my iron levels will be high until things start to balance. So far so good.

Don’t let the haters get to you, fuck em. No one will be saying shit in October when you’ve got a wheel barrel full of chronic to trim.

Click to expand...

I also went with the brix blend basalt from Rock Dust Local but think I will give the basalt from Cascade Minerals a go when I need to make more soil or add more to the yard and gardens. I would imagine they are both equally as good.

RogueChief said:

I also went with the brix blend basalt from Rock Dust Local but think I will give the basalt from Cascade Minerals a go when I need to make more soil or add more to the yard and gardens. I would imagine they are both equally as good.

Click to expand...

That’s where I got mine, I’m assuming it came in a heavy AF priority mail box? so far so good just hate shipping fuckin rocks. I bet third world people just laugh at us dumbasses

Tommysalami said:

That’s where I got mine, I’m assuming it came in a heavy AF priority mail box? so far so good just hate shipping fuckin rocks. I bet third world people just laugh at us dumbasses

Click to expand...

It's funny to see the blank stares I get at the local feed store when I ask if they can order me basalt rock dust for use in the garden. A grow store near me should carry it but I've only seen glacial rock dust stocked regularly.

RogueChief said:

It's funny to see the blank stares I get at the local feed store when I ask if they can order me basalt rock dust for use in the garden. A grow store near me should carry it but I've only seen glacial rock dust stocked regularly.

Click to expand...

I got the blank stare at the hydro shop when I even said the word basalt or rock dust. They told me to go to a quarry. They also wanted $21 a bag for the Malibu, after complaining they had shit organic amendments, didn’t even know what rock dust was I got them to order the pumice and got 8 bags of bu for $8 a piece. I’ve also spent a lot of money there over the years. I still need to go back and convince them to drop the Mother Earth biochar, it’s shit compared to black owl and it’s the same retail price. Also complained they didn’t sell naturally bailed peat, just that sterilized promix shit. Maybe they’ll change their ways when I share some harvest with the owner. It’s funny most of the guys who work there grow “organic” and spend hundreds of it from the bottle. I mixed a whole yard with premium amendments and I don’t think it cost me $250. Not sure what their doing exactly. It every time I’m there someone is loading their truck with 20 bails of promix and $1k worth of bottles. Guess it’s all about margin over quality and they encourage people to throw it out and buy more.

Tommysalami said:

I got the blank stare at the hydro shop when I even said the word basalt or rock dust. They told me to go to a quarry. They also wanted $21 a bag for the Malibu, after complaining they had shit organic amendments, didn’t even know what rock dust was I got them to order the pumice and got 8 bags of bu for $8 a piece. I’ve also spent a lot of money there over the years. I still need to go back and convince them to drop the Mother Earth biochar, it’s shit compared to black owl and it’s the same retail price. Also complained they didn’t sell naturally bailed peat, just that sterilized promix shit. Maybe they’ll change their ways when I share some harvest with the owner. It’s funny most of the guys who work there grow “organic” and spend hundreds of it from the bottle. I mixed a whole yard with premium amendments and I don’t think it cost me $250. Not sure what their doing exactly. It every time I’m there someone is loading their truck with 20 bails of promix and $1k worth of bottles. Guess it’s all about margin over quality and they encourage people to throw it out and buy more.

Click to expand...

you got 8 bags of malibu for 64 dollars!? thats dirt cheap! 8 cubic feet total right? i paid 175 for 7 bags (22-ish each) and thats actually normal pricing from what i hear

Tommysalami said:

What did you think of that rock dust? The brix blend I used looks like straight ground steel and is HEAVY. Definitely has magnetic properties. I’m assuming my iron levels will be high until things start to balance. So far so good.

Don’t let the haters get to you, fuck em. No one will be saying shit in October when you’ve got a wheel barrel full of chronic to trim.

Click to expand...

RogueChief said:

I also went with the brix blend basalt from Rock Dust Local but think I will give the basalt from Cascade Minerals a go when I need to make more soil or add more to the yard and gardens. I would imagine they are both equally as good.

Click to expand...

If you go on MOFO's IG and see the post where he shares his "new" recipe in the comments someone asks him what his favorite rock dust brand is. dude tells him that he uses Cascade Minerals himself and MOFO's reply is that he prefers Agrowinn rock dust over Cascade Minerals but he does insinuate that Cascade Minerals is good too. He says Agrowinn is at least equal to cascade minerals which tells me he likes agrowinn more. I have personally found that agrowinn is easier to find where I'm at. the John Deere Landscaping supplies carry it here.