Does bud itself need direct light? Why?

So everywhere it seems to be held as accepted that budsites themselves need light. Everywhere you hear stuff like "it makes for dense nugs" or " remove leaves so bud gets more light" ..it seems to have circumstantial evidence so to speak.

What got me to thinking was the defoliation(removing fan leaves) thread. Then I wondered was it the light not being blocked that helped, or that the plant had more resources that it didn't need to 'waste' on the leaves.

Is there science behind this? Links?

I know I am in for some flaming, as you get when questioning opinions held dear on the internet .... I am not disagreeing, or even saying I don't believe, just want to know for sure, and if so, why

Tl;Dr how/why does bud itself profit from direct light

I should clarify - there is a lot of conflicting "info" on whether bud/flower actually photosynthesizes .. Does it?

There are leaves in buds which would seem the most important for bud development, they are also the last to get depleted when the plant is starving.

But I agree, it's all a bunch of hippy science. It would be most logical that nature figured out how to yield most without human intervention but that isn't proven either.

so the thinking (hardly science) is that outside the sun is moving and so a plant needs lots of leaves in different positions to make use of the rays as they hit it from different angles... it is also said that the leaves store nutrients, which are already made available by the grower in terms of feed... this doesn't answer the questions about photosynthesis though... If you ever get a definitive answer, feel free to post it here


edit: something I read once that stuck with me is that when a leaf's stem turns red, it is costing the plant more in terms of energy than it is providing... again, I've never seen any science to confirm or negate this.

Removing leaves stresses the plant. Then bud sites woth zero light produce fluff. Therefore lollypop them bitches haha.... removing leaves will slow the bud growth. Provides more light below but takes away from the tops... then again some people get big yield defoliating.. some dont haha.... find your style....

Stick a plant over in the far corner of your flowering room and see how well it does compared the plants right under the light.

Are you serious, or just bored and wanted to post something?

If it's green, it's photosynthesizing. No debate or ambiguity on that point at least.

JamieShoes said:

so the thinking (hardly science) is that outside the sun is moving and so a plant needs lots of leaves in different positions to make use of the rays as they hit it from different angles... it is also said that the leaves store nutrients, which are already made available by the grower in terms of feed... this doesn't answer the questions about photosynthesis though... If you ever get a definitive answer, feel free to post it here


edit: something I read once that stuck with me is that when a leaf's stem turns red, it is costing the plant more in terms of energy than it is providing... again, I've never seen any science to confirm or negate this.

Click to expand...

I believe the changing of color can be related to using CFL as well. I know in CFL, all the stems pretty much turn purple. I think it's also more a sign of a deficency.

Redrum92 said:

I should clarify - there is a lot of conflicting "info" on whether bud/flower actually photosynthesizes .. Does it?

Click to expand...

Mikell said:

If it's green, it's photosynthesizing. No debate or ambiguity on that point at least.

Click to expand...

Enough said.

This was almost gonna be a good debate.

Damn you Mikell!

Yeah I don't actually do the defoliating thing myself, just explaining why some folk think it's viable...

Only time I remove fans is when I've overloaded/over vegged an area and need to get more penetration over all, but I don't go mad and only take a few at a time... lol I see in the defoliation thread folks taking trash bags at a time and then explaining that their plants take a week to recover...and I think.. no shit huh?...lol .. each to their own I guess

JamieShoes said:

so the thinking (hardly science) is that outside the sun is moving and so a plant needs lots of leaves in different positions to make use of the rays as they hit it from different angles...

Click to expand...

Leaves turn toward the light so plants shouldn't produce too much leaves for that reason.

Agreed that in an indoor environment sites are permanently shaded, but I prefer tucking the leaves away then.

I only purposely defoliate if I have a big plant in my greenhouse, to improve the airflow inside it.

Lapides said:

Enough said.

This was almost gonna be a good debate.

Damn you Mikell!

Click to expand...

Lapides said:

Stick a plant over in the far corner of your flowering room and see how well it does compared the plants right under the light.

Are you serious, or just bored and wanted to post something?

Click to expand...

You're completely ignoring the intent of the question to be a smartass? It never fails to amaze why people take things like this as a personal challenge.

I like to understand why things work the way they do. Don't you ?

"Common" knowledge on growsites = bud needs direct light to be compact.

"Common" knowledge on more broad plant knowledge type places is that flowers and buds don't photosynthesize for any appreciable amount of energy

The disparity is confusing

Thanks for the rest of you who presented some theories or knowledge. The whole trimming/lollipoping/defoliation/leaf folding technique really interested me as there is some credile evidence/posters behind each opposing side

how many other plants have green flowers? maybe that is the reason for the disparity between cannabis cultivation and typical horticulture?

the answer should be somewhat obvious, since; if its green it has chlorophyll and chlorophyll is responsible for photosynthesis, so therefore cannanbis flowers photosynthesize... also the amount and quality of light effect the localized hormone levels within the flowers as well as catalyze secondary metabolite production...


so yes, direct light is a big benefit to cannabis flowers.

Infinitesimal said:

so yes, direct light is a big benefit to cannabis flowers.

Click to expand...

Yes, but WHY?

That's what OP needs to know.

I'm guessing some sort of scientific papers to back up a scientific answer would be enough to satisfy him.

Googling "Why plants perform photosynthesis better in direct light as opposed to those that are shaded" should turn up some results...probably a bunch from online elementary school science classes, if I were to be such a smart ass.

lol coulda just done a search on the site for a thread like https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=284104 -Scientific evidence for selective DEFOLIATION, to strt.

cheers,.......................................gps

But then again some plants grow better in shade then others right its really a good question really and truth know one really knows in a scientific matter, as its a hypothisis and sometimes tests ,, Sponsered by someone with a new product to hit the market and blah blah right ..
what about amount of light and health of plant ??? although i consider my self a above average grower... i am seeing things allot differently in many areas ,,
for instance although plants grow at night also which many think they do not ,, i am a firm believer that night stages are extremely important.. in every aspect of plant performance a plant will only use or take so much energy from the source then waste the rest or not use it right ???
i look at it this way a battery when a person keeps it fully charged then unplugs it the its life hrs diminish really fast
When a person drains a battery then recharges it the life hrs appear to last longer
Can this be said for a plant ???
Again i really think so ,
I mean i had a plant that litterally stopped growing recently ( Grown organic out door )
and no matter what its just a runt , so last week i decided fuck this its going into flower
( forced out door flower ) covered for 12 hrs uncovered for 12 hrs
but this is interesting
i placed plant in garage for 48 hrs in dark
when introducing it back out door all tops were really light colored etc but what i found is
Could the plant of corrected itself in the darkness and i believe it did cause growth just took off and its not stretch
I mean from draining the plants batteries literally i boosted it weird huh but its true

So moral of the story is could placing plants in darkness for extended time actually allow plant to fix itself ???
i think so
We talk about defoiling a plant yet many tests even on here show that yields suffered there fore leaf matter ratio to plant is important with that comes also bud size and structure of buds
MJ is a weed it will grow in any amount of light from a 5 watt CFL lol to the sun and haing buds in the light source being its also photosynthesizing will create bigger buds an so on

Lapides said:

Yes, but WHY?

That's what OP needs to know.

I'm guessing some sort of scientific papers to back up a scientific answer would be enough to satisfy him.

Googling "Why plants perform photosynthesis better in direct light as opposed to those that are shaded" should turn up some results...probably a bunch from online elementary school science classes, if I were to be such a smart ass.

Click to expand...

Are you stupid? He is asking specifically if BUDS fare better in direct light. It is obvious that plants generally perform better in direct light. Some people like to question things, just because you do not doesnt give you the right to talk down to the guy.

OP - I fully understand your question, I'm guessing that it's because the flowers also photosynthesise. It's an interesting question, because flowers on most plants aren't used for photosynthesis

This post was why I got into defoliating, it works for me so far, probably been lucky, I think a real bushy strain benefits from some removal of fans, goodluck

06-22-2015, 10:11 PM #184
al70
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04-12-2013, 04:24 PM #15
melro52
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Pluck those leaves, they're taking away from the buds!
I'm a senior female who has been growing all sorts of plants, bushes, trees my whole life. I learned it from my first generation American mom who grew everything too. When a plant like marijuana, which is a terpenoid, (produces resin no differently than a pine tree), gets to the stage that it is flowering/budding, the plant pretty much ceases to grow. At this stage all plant's energy is going toward producing seed be it in the form of fruit, vegetable, flowers, buds. Every living thing is programmed to PROCREATE if nothing else. Any plant in stress, a tree that is dying, a plant in it's final stages will quickly try to procreate as much as possible.

We prevent female marijuana plants from being pollinated and seeding so buds continue to swell in the hope of being pollinated and the plant procreating. The big marijuana leaves on the plant at this stage are doing nothing but taking resin away from the buds. The plant itself should no longer be growing because it's reached it's pot size potential and we've forced it to bud. The buds are what people want to smoke not leaves, so pinch them off. Use the sticky leaves to make butter, or hash. As for the resin in the plant, it's now known that higher temps, increased sunlight, and decreased water supply really motivate terpenoids to produce resin.

Pinching out the big marijuana leaves allows:

Light and heat to hit all budding sights
Keeps the plant drier signaling more resin production (the hydro in THC is a clue) to protect and nourish the swelling buds.
Alerts the plant that a herbivore may be eating it. Resin is a plants defense. Most critters do NOT like the taste of resin and therefore the plant will produce even more resin.
Allows all the good juju (resin) to go right to the buds and not on the leaves, which no one wants to smoke.

Think about it. Everything in my yard perennials, bushes, trees, herbs, roses, vegetables get thinned out once, twice, some three times over the summer or they suffer. I've flowered a 4 ft. lime tree in a pot. I've got gardenia's blooming on a giant 3 ft bush in my living room in MI right now. Always remember that the top of any plant in a pot cannot grow beyond the root system that supports it so once the plant/tree is mature, cutting back/pinching is necessary, repotting is NOT because part of forcing any plant to bloom is letting it become root bound, taking away light, and restricting water supply. This makes the plant bloom faster and more vigorously because it's all it can do. It must produce seed to maintain the species despite its dire conditions (starvation) and will do it every time.

When my plucked Northern Lights girly gets even more white with resin I'll post pics. She's only into her 4th week of flowering and smells absolutely lovely.
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i make sure to post al70 what a none defoiled plant yields this fall guessing pounds