"locking down" a unique purple oldtimers haze pheno

i've posted this over on ace's oldtimers haze thread, but thought i'd throw it in the breeders' pool and see if it swims...

regarding my compact fast-finishing purple OT haze:
dubi (breeder, ace seeds) mentioned before that there are compact fast-finishing green OTH phenos, here from post 1498...

"There's a more compact and faster flowering Green Haze pheno, it usually has thicker stems, and it can be done
in 14-16 weeks of flowering, depending on the growing conditions, in contrast with the taller, longer flowering phenos
that need 16-20+ weeks to mature properly .... cold outdoor weather in late flowering helps to avoid reflowerings
and to speed up the maturation process."

and when my compact girl turned purple dubi added (post 1514)...
"Lovely Purple Haze Hope you are not dissapointed to find a purple one in your pack of Green Haze.
Green Haze release certainly produces mostly green phenos, but since this release has been produced by open
pollinating many different Green Haze parental plants there's always a chance that an unexpected recessive
purple pheno come out."

i'm guessing that i've got the compact green pheno, but with a recessive purple coloration/aroma/thin stem and leaf orientation?
her effect is much more green-leaning (e.g., euphoric, "extrospective").
she also has noticeably larger trichome heads than the others'.

[another description of their highs from post: "the compact purple is done in around 14wks, from clone.
her high has practically zero-introspection, and is very similar to
the green haze's high- with a little more smile-enducing euphoria
(and a touch of giddy jitter) in the purple, and a little more
straight-up caffeinic energy in the green.
i wonder if the purple's a very mexican-leaning OT haze..."]

as well as being more compact in structure, her buds also tended that way as well, with less fox-tailing...

pure green OTH, top. compact POTH pheno bud, bottom.


questions for the breeder community:
when using her to make s1/S1 seeds, do you have a guess what percentage of off-spring will have her specific nature (i.e., compact fast-finishing POTH)?
i wonder if we'd see a percentage of just the green compact phenos in those off-spring too.
do you have any general advice for getting a unique pheno's characteristics to carry over in crosses you make with her?
i was looking forward to making crosses, but maybe i should flower out some of her s1/S1 off-spring first to get to know how she performs...
maybe do a selection from them?...

thanks!

If you want to try and "cube" your keeper forget the S1 stuff. Producing S1's is great tool for find recessive genes but not much else. Marketing hype has caused some confusion on the subject.

Order some Kerala seeds from Real Seed Company. It's your best option for obtaining one of the strains that make up OTH. Find a suitable male Kerala to cross with your keeper. If you are able to find enough females with the desirable traits from the resulting progeny then you could follow Mr. Soul's lead and "cube" your keeper.

i'd find a nice male to start with and do a bx1

cross your nice oth male to your select female

then find a male from those seeds and cross back to your select female

If you really like that phenotype, why not do all of the above to preserve it? Self it, cross it, cube it.



I have limited experience with growing s1s but one would think (correct me if I'm wrong) that without new genetic input you should get mostly purple plants if the trait wasn't environmentally induced. I might have missed the post on your growing conditions?


What I'd do is select a fast flowering Oth male to cross with your purple female and see how it turns out. You can then back cross to your favourite female if you seem to have lost either the purple colour or the speed. Doing such work with long flowering NLDs takes time though, which brings me to option three, outcrossing.


I'm not sure Kerala would be the closest relative to cross with but it would certainly help keep that tropical goodness intact and bring some wanted vigour. Less chanches of keeping the purple though as the trait is not present in Kerala. North Indian strains show lots of purples (a possible hint on the origins of Colombian hazes?) and some of them could help bring down the flowering time. Nanda Devi and Mileche Nepal are what I'd go with, Manipur is also high in purples but maybe even longer flowering than oldtimer's haze.


Not sure if that answered any of your questions but it's the caffeine talking

Thinking about this more thoroughly,,, there's no telling if the genes responsible for the purple color are dominant or resessive. From what I've seen the trait is usually co-dominant with green coloration. You get roughly half and half. Mixing one purple plant with another plant with the gene for purple color (hard to tell from males?) should give mostly purple offspring.



Even if the trait was recessive, similar to autoflowering where both parental plants would need to carry one version of the recessive gene to get 25% of the plants to express it in the f2, your S1s would inherit the gene from all it's parents (your purple oth bred with itself) and you would end up with mostly purple plants. ¨¨


Your plant probably has either a dominant gene for purple color or a recessive gene for purple color from both it's parents because otherwise it wouldn't be expressing the trait in the first place. I hope this makes sense.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333736



dank.Frank

There is a lot of variation within the line at least from a vegetative standpoint I saw a great deal of differences within the seed stock. Shorter wider leaves and taller skinny both.

I selected for a shorter internode with wider leaf on both male and female. However, the short wide leaf girl went 144 days finishing out on 10/14 the final 3 weeks or so. I had 5 that germ'd initially. I know 2 were male. I think there was also a female that was way out of hand stretched to the sky and uncontrollable that was also culled.

Have not tested the progeny. But the Male was used on 2 different new BG C99 girls, a purple and a green #4 keeper. The Green Granny Haze turned out very sativa yet finished much quicker and stayed very height manageable, while she retained the robust spicy black liquor incense smell of the haze, the Cindy gave her her resin. I'd say she's 10-12 weeks.

Hi LowFalutin ;


don't know if this is of any help to you and your endeavor to lock down the unique traits of your OT Haze phenotype.


But regarding the trait "purple Color",
I found this in a translated german book, the original

"Marijuana Botany" is by Robert Connell Clarke himself.
Sorry for the language not being englisch,

here is a transcription of the englisch original version,

pages 16-18/48 are the reference to these images

(Starting from the paragraph "Genetics" up to "Polyploidy") :
https://www.calgarycmmc.com/ebooks%20p%20q%20r%20s%20t%20u%20v%20w%20x%20y%20z%20/Robert%20C%20Clarke%20-%20Marijuana%20Botany%20-%20An%20Advanced%20Study.pdf



The red encircled genotypes in the first picture are actually missing one genotype, just want to point out the mistake to avoid confusion.
In this scenario it is assumed, that "purple" is dominant over "green" and that the green/ purple color are independently detemined by different genes for leaf and calyx, so you would need the purple gene for leafes and purple gene for calyx at least in heterocygous state in your genotype to get a complete purple plant.


I don't know if these assumptions do reflect reality, but hope it is of any help to you.


Cheers

I think that the best would be make F1, then F2 and then select right F2 parents and you have it good luck