Please supervise my harvest

Smoked some of the Blueberry Cheesecake yesterday. Ive realized that its not so much this hay smell that has been the issue, its the smoke itself feels very harsh. Its hard to describe. Its mettalic, chemicaly, it has a tingling/burning sensation that just makes you want to exhale the smoke right away. No deep inhales, no holding it in. no coughing. No good "tickling of the back of the throat" none of that. As soon as you inhale your just like yeah no lets exhale that and try another. I can smoke half the joint and then I call it quits. So this I realize now is the main symptom. Its happened with 6 different harvests. Several different strains, many phenos of each.

At this point I am doing everything by the book. Organics, No major deficiencies, full peak trichome maturity, cut in dark, 10-14 day slow dry, 1 month cure. 62% RH.

The thing is I've been sharing with friends, and people either don't notice it cause there used to crap, or they just don't care, or they are afraid to give constructive feedback. And even then, they don't grow so they can't connect it with whats going on. I wish I could just send it to some canadian fellow growers and some pros can pinpoint what it is. At this rate I don't think i can keep growing much longer. Its so disappointing to put so much time and money and effort into them. And they look and smell so good growing. And then its this same disappointing harsh smoke. At this point I'm not even looking for advice or ideas on the growing aspect. Ive spent 100's of hours researching, asking, reading.

BTW, the potency is there. I can smoke in my bong, or vape it, or make cookies, and get wrecked. But its this harsh taste and feel from joints that is just killing me. Im a joint guy, love rolling them, love licking my lips, passing it around, seeing it get super resiny. yeah NONE of that with my stuff. I have done about 6 harvest now. Totaling over several pounds.

Il make another thread on this issue directly I guess, but just wanted to fill you guys in since I finally smoked some of the Blueberry yesterday. Il keep smoking all the different strains and will see if I can pick up on any more details that can help pinpoint this.

Just under a lb, not bad at all. Now you get to enjoy the fruits of your hard labor. I see in the beginning of the thread you were mainly concerned with the end product smoking and smelling properly. 2 weeks is a bit long for drying but I guess it can't hurt if done properly. I see your satisfied with the smells so far after a brief cure, now all that's left is a smoke report once she cured to your satisfaction..

Glad to see you've figured out some errors you've made and ways to correct them for the next grow. That's all growing is about really, learning from those mistakes and fixing them. You'll be a pro in no time.

Thanks Many Spliffs, I have gotten a lot better, so Im happy about the progress. I would put money on me having the most discouraging results and hardest time out of any new grower ever. It is literally the hardest thing I have ever done. Sometimes the buds will smell a somewhat good, there will be some decent smell and i get it excited. The bud will be cruystally nice and dense, give it a squeeze it gives out a nice aroma, i roll it up, my hands get little sticky as well. And then I light it, my heart drops, major depression sets in. Ive done it again, grown garbage, no matter how long I dry, or cure, patiently waiting for over 2 months after chop to have the first taste finally! It is so frustrating to put in so much effort and research and money and risk, to grow stuff that is worse then you can get from any dealer on the street. I am the worst grower on icmag. Im also really stupid, because I'm not quitting. at this point I don't know where to improve or what to change. Maybe it is the genetics, maybe everything by female seeds is garbage! (I doubt it, i wish i could blame the breeder. Only I am to blame. I spent top dollar for scotts og from rare dankness and agent orange from tga. Then we will for sure know if its the genetics.

This is the only solution I can see, that experienced growers on here, let me send them some samples and they find out why it smokes harsh or tastes bad. But no one would do that for security reasons to give out addresses. So I'm on my own.

What do you mean when you say your organic? Are tou building the soil, using teas, or using nutes labeled organic?It sounds like you are overfeeding, or not flushing enough but i don't know to much about organics

i would guess insufficient flushing or improper dry/cure. Worst case it could be mould or some infestation issue. How does it smell? If it smells bad don't smoke it

No it just smells like hay still, even after 1 month cure now.

I have several pounds of garbage that I can't even give away. Brutal. Most brutal part is I don't know where Im going wrong so just like my 5 last grows all future ones will be the same. Makes it not even fun anymore knowing the outcome after all that labour money and effort.

It has to be 1 of 3 things:

FLUSHING
DRYING/CURING
GENETICS
FERTILIZER
PROPER HARVEST TIME

We will go through each one how I have been doing it.

FLUSHING

Last Run I did This for watering feeding:
Day 45-Water(200 ppm out of tap) with 15ml/G Blackstrap Molasses = 436PPM
(run off = 750ppm-900ppm)
Day 49-Water Only
(run off = 390ppm-540ppm)
Day 56 - FLUSH 7G H20
(final run off on 7th gallon was 200 ppm, same as tap water going in )
DAY 64 HARVEST

So Im stopping feeding with ferts on day 45, 3 weeks before harvest! and Flushing for a full 8 DAYS prior to harvest.


DRYING

I give 24 hours darkness before chopping. I cut in complete darkness. I do fan leave trim only and hang to dry on stems in 60% humidity and 60F for 1 week. Then do final trim remove buds from branch and put in paper bags. there they slow dry a second week at same humidity and temp, and then i put in jars for curing. same temps, opening every day for an hour or so. once RH stays at 63-65% I stop opening to burp for long periods and just open to check on them and give quick breath. They are in complete darkness the whole time. And I have never had issue with mold.

All these strains Ive been growing over the years have been from FEMALE SEEDS they are Pure ak, Grapefruit, C99, Special Skunk, Sexbud, Blueberry Cheesecake.

There is no way that all these strains and each phenotypes are Garbage. People on here have grown them with success and even though female seeds isn't high end, they wouldn't be in business if they weren't decent.

FERTILIZER

I use pureblend pro grow and bloom for soil, starting using liquid karma as well up to week 3 in flower. They are considered organic bottle nutes, I know its not 100% so I'm not barking up that tree, but it is super mainstream and popular. Every hydro store carries it as there #1 product.

HARVEST WINDOW

I have been doing a full 9 weeks from flip. they look super done, seeing amber trichs, all pistils are brown and red. and overall have a nice fade.
Will post Pictures. Im probably going to make a thread just about this, but figured Id post here for now since you guys have been watching me harvest for this exact reason. to see where I am going wrong.

i just don't get it. If any of these things were really this hard, and I was actually doing it wrong, then every new guy would have garbage harvests for the first year or so and not be able to afford to continue, nor want to, I mean grow garbage and spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours and risk your security and freedom, to end up with bunk again and again. I am the worst grower on the internet.

With organics, even the bottled ones, ppm shouldn't matter that much.
Also, I wouldn't flush as in pouring gallons of water to the soil, I'd just use water for the last 2-3 weeks. If you haven't overfed before that would be enaugh.
Also, try to dry in some other place if the weed is still crap.
Then change breeder. I did have good results in the past with femaleseeds, far from the best but good. Then next time i tried something from them it was crap. That being said, I haven't grown their gear in more than 5 years. So I can't talk about current quality of their seeds, but I would strongly advise you in checking different breeders if you still don't figure it out soon.

PaulieWaulie said:

Smoked some of the Blueberry Cheesecake yesterday. Ive realized that its not so much this hay smell that has been the issue, its the smoke itself feels very harsh. Its hard to describe. Its mettalic, chemicaly, it has a tingling/burning sensation that just makes you want to exhale the smoke right away. No deep inhales, no holding it in. no coughing. No good "tickling of the back of the throat" none of that. As soon as you inhale your just like yeah no lets exhale that and try another. I can smoke half the joint and then I call it quits. So this I realize now is the main symptom. Its happened with 6 different harvests. Several different strains, many phenos of each.

At this point I am doing everything by the book. Organics, No major deficiencies, full peak trichome maturity, cut in dark, 10-14 day slow dry, 1 month cure. 62% RH.

The thing is I've been sharing with friends, and people either don't notice it cause there used to crap, or they just don't care, or they are afraid to give constructive feedback. And even then, they don't grow so they can't connect it with whats going on. I wish I could just send it to some canadian fellow growers and some pros can pinpoint what it is. At this rate I don't think i can keep growing much longer. Its so disappointing to put so much time and money and effort into them. And they look and smell so good growing. And then its this same disappointing harsh smoke. At this point I'm not even looking for advice or ideas on the growing aspect. Ive spent 100's of hours researching, asking, reading.

BTW, the potency is there. I can smoke in my bong, or vape it, or make cookies, and get wrecked. But its this harsh taste and feel from joints that is just killing me. Im a joint guy, love rolling them, love licking my lips, passing it around, seeing it get super resiny. yeah NONE of that with my stuff. I have done about 6 harvest now. Totaling over several pounds.

Il make another thread on this issue directly I guess, but just wanted to fill you guys in since I finally smoked some of the Blueberry yesterday. Il keep smoking all the different strains and will see if I can pick up on any more details that can help pinpoint this.

Click to expand...

You say potency is there but the smoke is harsh. Two things will help with harshness, a good cure in the jars and proper trim job. Are you smoking leaves? The leaves can and will have THC resin but if you smoke it it'll be way harsher than the bud itself. Do you leave lots of leaf trim on your buds? That might be the problem.

P.S.. You're not the worst grower on here, there have been many before you and probably many after. You're atleast trying to learn and fix your problems. You're getting potent, nice looking bud with good yields. That's a success in my book. Take a look at the real worst growers thread. So bad the thread got shutdown but its super funny all the same. If this thread don't cheer you up, I don't know what will.. lmao https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224050

tap water at 200 ppm could be an issue. does it have chlorine/chloramine fluoride etc? Are you using a hygrometer in the jars? There is no book for organics. Starting out I would stick with a basic nutrient line and follow their simple feeding schedule.

Sometimes I wonder if some people over think curing. I've cured just about every way possible. Back when..watching humidity, darkness, hang time etc... Anymore I just stick to simple. Most wouldn't believe it but in less than 8 days from harvest I'm done. And nothing but solid compliments. Conditions do have to be ideal but not exact.
Full wet trim (whether on the stem or all the way down to manicured buds), then I either hang or dry rack for 2 to 3 days with a light oscillating fan. And no my room is not dark and I have no clue what the humidity or temps are. If I were to guess it's 40, 45 percent and around 65, 70f. Then when the outsides are dry but stems still bend I pull them and lock them in air tight bins for a day to redistribute the moisture and slow the curing down. Then open the bins for a half day, day with a light fan blowing over the tops of the bins. Then close for a day and repeat until I have stems snapping. Usually around 4,5 days in bins alternating opening and rotating. Then close them up air tight. Done. Great smell with accommodating taste and smooth pulls.

I will say, it's strain dependant on how funky they get. Some just don't have a great smell. But I'm past the days of the hay smell.

Also, if I have time they go into jars and they will get a little stronger but most are quite surprised when I tell them what they're smoking just came down a week ago.

It works... Not that other methods don't but it's simple and doesn't take long. Put it in jars after and it only gets better.

The key is like cooking a steak kinda. You want to sear the outside then slow it down. I'm not sure what the science is about it but it works.

I read people suggest this humidity, that temp... Then put it in jars with a perfect humidity, burp 10 times a day for 6 weeks... Yada. Just keep it simple but did it right. Get it drying for a bit then slow it down until done.

When I did finish them and have time to jar it, I don't burp. But then again their finished by then. I've opened unburped jars a month later and been knocked back with yummy smells of you name it from berries to diesels and matching smooth tastes.

Best of luck next time.

PdxFarms said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people over think curing. I've cured just about every way possible. Back when..watching humidity, darkness, hang time etc... Anymore I just stick to simple. Most wouldn't believe it but in less than 8 days from harvest I'm done. And nothing but solid compliments. Conditions do have to be ideal but not exact.
Full wet trim (whether on the stem or all the way down to manicured buds), then I either hang or dry rack for 2 to 3 days with a light oscillating fan. And no my room is not dark and I have no clue what the humidity or temps are. If I were to guess it's 40, 45 percent and around 65, 70f. Then when the outsides are dry but stems still bend I pull them and lock them in air tight bins for a day to redistribute the moisture and slow the curing down. Then open the bins for a half day, day with a light fan blowing over the tops of the bins. Then close for a day and repeat until I have stems snapping. Usually around 4,5 days in bins alternating opening and rotating. Then close them up air tight. Done. Great smell with accommodating taste and smooth pulls.

I will say, it's strain dependant on how funky they get. Some just don't have a great smell. But I'm past the days of the hay smell.

Also, if I have time they go into jars and they will get a little stronger but most are quite surprised when I tell them what they're smoking just came down a week ago.

It works... Not that other methods don't but it's simple and doesn't take long. Put it in jars after and it only gets better.

The key is like cooking a steak kinda. You want to sear the outside then slow it down. I'm not sure what the science is about it but it works.

I read people suggest this humidity, that temp... Then put it in jars with a perfect humidity, burp 10 times a day for 6 weeks... Yada. Just keep it simple but did it right. Get it drying for a bit then slow it down until done.

When I did finish them and have time to jar it, I don't burp. But then again their finished by then. I've opened unburped jars a month later and been knocked back with yummy smells of you name it from berries to diesels and matching smooth tastes.

Best of luck next time.

Click to expand...

I agree - if you have 45RH and 65F no need to micromanage. Here in CO where we can have 10-20RH and temperature swings of 50-60 degrees or more it's a different story.

I would go further really. If you have ideal drying conditions you don't really need to be too concerned about curing.

theres a good water only soil mix in my sig. its pretty foolproof. when you smoke a bowl, is the ash white or gray or dingy?

nameless said:

theres a good water only soil mix in my sig. its pretty foolproof. when you smoke a bowl, is the ash white or gray or dingy?

Click to expand...

nameless I forgot what the different colored ash mean, could you remind me..

PaulieWaulie said:

No it just smells like hay still, even after 1 month cure now.

I have several pounds of garbage that I can't even give away. Brutal. Most brutal part is I don't know where Im going wrong so just like my 5 last grows all future ones will be the same. Makes it not even fun anymore knowing the outcome after all that labour money and effort.

It has to be 1 of 3 things:

FLUSHING
DRYING/CURING
GENETICS
FERTILIZER
PROPER HARVEST TIME

We will go through each one how I have been doing it.

FLUSHING

Last Run I did This for watering feeding:
Day 45-Water(200 ppm out of tap) with 15ml/G Blackstrap Molasses = 436PPM
(run off = 750ppm-900ppm)
Day 49-Water Only
(run off = 390ppm-540ppm)
Day 56 - FLUSH 7G H20
(final run off on 7th gallon was 200 ppm, same as tap water going in )
DAY 64 HARVEST

So Im stopping feeding with ferts on day 45, 3 weeks before harvest! and Flushing for a full 8 DAYS prior to harvest.


DRYING

I give 24 hours darkness before chopping. I cut in complete darkness. I do fan leave trim only and hang to dry on stems in 60% humidity and 60F for 1 week. Then do final trim remove buds from branch and put in paper bags. there they slow dry a second week at same humidity and temp, and then i put in jars for curing. same temps, opening every day for an hour or so. once RH stays at 63-65% I stop opening to burp for long periods and just open to check on them and give quick breath. They are in complete darkness the whole time. And I have never had issue with mold.

All these strains Ive been growing over the years have been from FEMALE SEEDS they are Pure ak, Grapefruit, C99, Special Skunk, Sexbud, Blueberry Cheesecake.

There is no way that all these strains and each phenotypes are Garbage. People on here have grown them with success and even though female seeds isn't high end, they wouldn't be in business if they weren't decent.

FERTILIZER

I use pureblend pro grow and bloom for soil, starting using liquid karma as well up to week 3 in flower. They are considered organic bottle nutes, I know its not 100% so I'm not barking up that tree, but it is super mainstream and popular. Every hydro store carries it as there #1 product.

HARVEST WINDOW

I have been doing a full 9 weeks from flip. they look super done, seeing amber trichs, all pistils are brown and red. and overall have a nice fade.
Will post Pictures. Im probably going to make a thread just about this, but figured Id post here for now since you guys have been watching me harvest for this exact reason. to see where I am going wrong.

i just don't get it. If any of these things were really this hard, and I was actually doing it wrong, then every new guy would have garbage harvests for the first year or so and not be able to afford to continue, nor want to, I mean grow garbage and spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours and risk your security and freedom, to end up with bunk again and again. I am the worst grower on the internet.

Click to expand...

Try leaving the fan leaves on until you decide to put the buds in the jars to cure, and also have circulating air.

Black ash means your buds not flushed properly. White ash is sign of a well flushed buds

packerfan79 said:

Black ash means your buds not flushed properly. White ash is sign of a well flushed buds

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info packerfan, figured it was something like that just couldn't remember. Smoke too much I guess.. lol

ManyManySpliffs said:

Thanks for the info packerfan, figured it was something like that just couldn't remember. Smoke too much I guess.. lol

Click to expand...

Yup, smoke a lot, forget a lot lol

Thanks Everyone I will respond to your input, and a second post will give you an update on the current run. Lets call this Supervise my Harvest 2.0 LOL

exploziv said:

With organics, even the bottled ones, ppm shouldn't matter that much.
Also, I wouldn't flush as in pouring gallons of water to the soil, I'd just use water for the last 2-3 weeks. If you haven't overfed before that would be enaugh.
Also, try to dry in some other place if the weed is still crap.
Then change breeder. I did have good results in the past with femaleseeds, far from the best but good. Then next time i tried something from them it was crap. That being said, I haven't grown their gear in more than 5 years. So I can't talk about current quality of their seeds, but I would strongly advise you in checking different breeders if you still don't figure it out soon.

Click to expand...

And this is what I have heard before, that flushing is not that important, and depending on your nutrients you can just fade out the last 3 weeks. Or that the cure will take care of it. This would really mean that I am going above and beyond Flushing requirements and it can't be a problem with the flush process.

ManyManySpliffs said:

You say potency is there but the smoke is harsh. Two things will help with harshness, a good cure in the jars and proper trim job. Are you smoking leaves? The leaves can and will have THC resin but if you smoke it it'll be way harsher than the bud itself. Do you leave lots of leaf trim on your buds? That might be the problem.

P.S.. You're not the worst grower on here, there have been many before you and probably many after. You're atleast trying to learn and fix your problems. You're getting potent, nice looking bud with good yields. That's a success in my book. Take a look at the real worst growers thread. So bad the thread got shutdown but its super funny all the same. If this thread don't cheer you up, I don't know what will.. lmao https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224050

Click to expand...

I will post some bud shots, I choose only the densest, most trichome caked buds to sample. And I trim my buds very well. Takes about an Hour per oz from 1 plant So no, Im not smoking Leaf.

Pwyll said:

tap water at 200 ppm could be an issue. does it have chlorine/chloramine fluoride etc? Are you using a hygrometer in the jars? There is no book for organics. Starting out I would stick with a basic nutrient line and follow their simple feeding schedule.

Click to expand...

Our tap water has chloramine yes. I had a water report that I can repost. 200PPM isn't even considered HARD. It is almost in the perfect for the amount of cal mag a plant needs. I would think that if its chloramine or the tap ppm that causes issues this would be a #1 tip on here that everyone would be urging growers to focus on. I am switching to super soil organics living soil, so will use a water conditioner that breaks down the chloramine, and I usually let my water bubble and sit for 7-10 days (thats how long it takes me to use up a premixed reservoir of nutrient solution).

PdxFarms said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people over think curing. I've cured just about every way possible. Back when..watching humidity, darkness, hang time etc... Anymore I just stick to simple. Most wouldn't believe it but in less than 8 days from harvest I'm done. And nothing but solid compliments. Conditions do have to be ideal but not exact.
Full wet trim (whether on the stem or all the way down to manicured buds), then I either hang or dry rack for 2 to 3 days with a light oscillating fan. And no my room is not dark and I have no clue what the humidity or temps are. If I were to guess it's 40, 45 percent and around 65, 70f. Then when the outsides are dry but stems still bend I pull them and lock them in air tight bins for a day to redistribute the moisture and slow the curing down. Then open the bins for a half day, day with a light fan blowing over the tops of the bins. Then close for a day and repeat until I have stems snapping. Usually around 4,5 days in bins alternating opening and rotating. Then close them up air tight. Done. Great smell with accommodating taste and smooth pulls.

I will say, it's strain dependant on how funky they get. Some just don't have a great smell. But I'm past the days of the hay smell.

Also, if I have time they go into jars and they will get a little stronger but most are quite surprised when I tell them what they're smoking just came down a week ago.

It works... Not that other methods don't but it's simple and doesn't take long. Put it in jars after and it only gets better.

The key is like cooking a steak kinda. You want to sear the outside then slow it down. I'm not sure what the science is about it but it works.

I read people suggest this humidity, that temp... Then put it in jars with a perfect humidity, burp 10 times a day for 6 weeks... Yada. Just keep it simple but did it right. Get it drying for a bit then slow it down until done.

When I did finish them and have time to jar it, I don't burp. But then again their finished by then. I've opened unburped jars a month later and been knocked back with yummy smells of you name it from berries to diesels and matching smooth tastes.

Best of luck next time.

Click to expand...

Stop testing me with those smells!! ARGHHH

Yes it is easy to overcomplicate anything, especially for new guys reading up on all these various personalized methods. But the concept is easy to understand.

SLOW DOWN AND EVEN OUT THE DRYING!

The slower the better as long as you don't get mold.
And the 4 metrics to manipulate the drying rate are Temp/Humidity/ Air circulation/ And as you can see on this thread I documented all the steps. and it dried for 2+ weeks, with LOW Temps - 15-20C and High Humidity 60-70% RH. Some say the RH is high, but ultimately the higher the humidity the slower they will dry out. And as long as you don't get mold, its ok. And U have never gotten mold in the drying curing process.

Pwyll said:

I would go further really. If you have ideal drying conditions you don't really need to be too concerned about curing.

Click to expand...

See again, I spend so much time on the curing stage and making sure its perfect and then someone says nah, you don't always need it. so again Its not the cure process thats wrong.
See

nameless said:

theres a good water only soil mix in my sig. its pretty foolproof. when you smoke a bowl, is the ash white or gray or dingy?

Click to expand...

I will look for the ash colour next time I do a test. Yeah Im starting to think its Pure blend Pro Nutrients line. So switching to make my own super soil and water feed only.

master kusher said:

Try leaving the fan leaves on until you decide to put the buds in the jars to cure, and also have circulating air.

Click to expand...

Ive read that too many fan leaves can make it taste green as well though. My fan leaves are so yellow and dead during the last 2 weeks that they can barely stay on there. Plus since all the nutrients have been taken out of it, and it can't take in light I remove it to give more light to the buds below to help mature in the last weeks. Maybe this run I will leave them all on. I just don't like them blocking all that light for nothing. I figure if I remove it now, when its almost falling off, it won't do any harm. I get that having it on, will increase mass of overall plant and total water stored between the plant as a whole, and decrease airflow around buds, these 2 elements help with slowing down drying. Il leave them all on on this run. Since if it smokes harsh again thats another pound that I cant even give away.

My current run that is close to harvest - Not the one in my signature that is in VEG.

DAY 40 - started feeding molasses with water = 460 PPM
Day 50 - Flushed 8G of straight water through each 2.5G POT until my run off was same as tap = 200-220.

I had 6 rows with this grow each with different PPM levels - just so you can get an idea of feeding levels and nutrients

With every Feeding
Row 1 -600 no flush before flowering
Row 2 -600
Row 3 -650
Row 4 -700
Row 5 -700 inc. 2.5 ml Cal/mag
Row 6 -750

I found plants that had no flush and got 600ppm did the best overall week by week, so thats what my base will be from now on with pure blend pro and every watering.
PURE AK #5 DAY 40 - Already a massive fade going on with this leader in the pack - Im really trying to get as much of a fade on this harvest as possible guys