Doing an Experiment, anyone want to try and stop me ?

growingcrazy · Aug 1, 2017

I am looking forward to the results. The perlite pot will run out of nutrition first, it has 50% less in the container. It will still hold a lot more water without any sand in the mix.

If you water the soil pot correctly, it will excel.

Heal that back up Paulie! Back pain sucks.

Next we will have you sending a soil sample in and only running OMRI amendments...

mushroombrew · Aug 1, 2017

growingcrazy said:
I am looking forward to the results. The perlite pot will run out of nutrition first, it has 50% less in the container. It will still hold a lot more water without any sand in the mix.

If you water the soil pot correctly, it will excel.

Heal that back up Paulie! Back pain sucks.

Next we will have you sending a soil sample in and only running OMRI amendments...

And we will lab test for brix, terpenes and Cannabinoids.
But will have to pass on the pesticide panel there's chems all over!!
Shit did you hear about "guardian"? OMRI listed but contained abamectin...ouch no pass.

growingcrazy · Aug 1, 2017

All soils are not created equal. Please go read the AEA and Slownickel threads from the start. We will reconvene in a week to see your plants.

mushroombrew · Aug 1, 2017

This is one of my mothers. Same 2 Gallons "soil" for 6 months.

Sunshine #4 and 2tbsp Marine Cuisine. And water... Kicks royal ass.

PaulieWaulie · Aug 9, 2017

Experiment has begun. Seeds were germinated yesterday at noon and planted into these 1 Gallons and soaked down nicely (and gently). Should POP by Friday, when they are all up, I will give update. I will have them outdoors for the first 2-3 weeks, then move to indoors when I get the VEG room fired up. Wanted to test out the soil with these 4 freebies first before planting my army of 28 clones into them!

PaulieWaulie · Aug 9, 2017

growingcrazy said:
All soils are not created equal. Please go read the AEA and Slownickel threads from the start. We will reconvene in a week to see your plants.

Thanks for the recommendation, I will track them down!

RiddleMeThis · Aug 9, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
There is definitely a lot of solid pieces of charcoal,wanlut shells, stems, wood pieces, bones, that all add to the porosity of the mix. It will create plenty of air pockets, not absorb water itself, and make the roots grow out in different directions. Additionally there is still the perlite from the Pro mix which was HP (high porosity) having 30% perlite.

As far as watering frequency Im an expert. I always wait till they are nice and dry and water just before they start slowing down growth and drooping. I guess we will find out soon enough how long it takes for them to dry out. Im thinking every 4-5 days when roots are established and they are in full swing. My pro mix has been 3-4 days at peak growth.

In my experience, and per the advice of many on this forum, wet-dry cycles not great for organic soil. Changing that mindset changed my grow

PaulieWaulie · Aug 9, 2017

RiddleMeThis said:
In my experience, and per the advice of many on this forum, wet-dry cycles not great for organic soil. Changing that mindset changed my grow

Mhhh interesting, I have not heard about that. Can you elaborate on the theory behind that? Everything I have read over the years has justified WET/DRY cycles by saying roots will go crazy searching for remaining water. Plus by being dry the pot will have more air. As well this system will prevent over watering for newbies. I know after week 3 of bloom, roots don't grow anymore and at that point you don't need to try so hard to completely let it dry out, as the roots have taken over most of the container and soak up any water pretty quick.

paradoxlost · Aug 10, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
Mhhh interesting, I have not heard about that. Can you elaborate on the theory behind that? Everything I have read over the years has justified WET/DRY cycles by saying roots will go crazy searching for remaining water. Plus by being dry the pot will have more air. As well this system will prevent over watering for newbies. I know after week 3 of bloom, roots don't grow anymore and at that point you don't need to try so hard to completely let it dry out, as the roots have taken over most of the container and soak up any water pretty quick.

The drying out kills the bacterial community. You gotta keep it in field capacity

PaulieWaulie · Aug 18, 2017

Day 7 UPDATE

Day 7 UPDATE

Had them getting natural light for the first 4 days, and inside for the last 3 days at 24/0 under a set of 4x4F Fluorescents, getting 15K LUX. 1 Died, It was a runt and did nothing for 3 days and then had damp off and was dead in the am.

The cold nights during those first 3 days may have caused them to slow down. Im satisfied with the growth, not the best growth for a week, but not the worst so this soil may be ok. Of course even if everything goes good now, the issue will be if the plants can get all the nutrients they need for the whole cycle all the way through flowering.

Watering just rain water with a ppm of 0 then adding 5ml/G liquid Karma and 10 ml/G Blackstrap Molasses = 220PPM/PH 6.5. Run off came out @ 1700ppm ph 7.8 first watering. Now the nutrient mixture dropped from 6.5 to 4.8 over the course of the few days.I thinking because its rainwater there is no buffer action from the hardness of tap waters calcium. So it just swung super low. But the run off ended up coming out at 7. I think the reason my ph of the mix is high. or at least the 1st few water run offs is the vermiculite has a ph of 7.5-8. And theres a fair bit in there thats dusty so those 1st few waterings get a lot of that in there.

Not sure how much I should worry about PH, because its all I ever read that in organic you don't need to look at the ph it just sorts itself out! Input appreciated to clarify this point!

I am confident that I will work with whatever this mix throws at me, and have started transplanting my Scotts OG/ Agent Orange Clones into the mix, a total of 28 over the course of the next week. All into 1G Pots.

I have also put in some seeds into 1G Pots
4 SEEDS (female freebies)

1 X Green Crack (HSO)
1 X Blue Dream (HSO)
1X SKUNK #1 (G13 LABS)
1X Critical+ Cheese (Dinafem)

Until next week!

mushroombrew · Aug 21, 2017

Looks like your mix is working so far!.

OK here are the two plants. Perlite mix is winning slightly. Bigger fuller leaves.

Although this is not a mix I grow weed in . It's my veggie dirt.

zif · Aug 22, 2017

Looks like a super narrow difference down to perlite so far.

Are you keeping the watering identical, or are they starting to show different needs there?

Thanks for doing this test! I'm really interested in seeing If that narrow difference gets magnified through flowering.

DocTim420 · Aug 22, 2017

Hmmm, perlite = more porosity. Imagine that. Guess there is something to that balance between air/water porosity.

mushroombrew · Aug 22, 2017

The soil only has been watered twice. The perlite 3 times. They do have different watering requirements. The straight soil mix holds way more water. I will flip them shortly.
I should probably pot up to 2G for flowering?

Watering at pH6.5. Haven't checked run offs yet.

growingcrazy · Aug 22, 2017

Looking Good so far.

That size container probably only needs 30-40ml of water every other day or so?

PaulieWaulie · Aug 22, 2017

OK!

DAY 12 UPDATE

Chalking up this experiment as a fail. Growth is slow and small. Ive had it under 24/0 Fluoros for the past week. Temps have been 20-25C. So its not light or temps. I think it is probably not as high porosity as I had thought, or the ph is at 7.5 which I had the understanding ph doesn't matter as much in organics but obviously it does if your searching for optimum growth.

I think my soil is alkaline for 3 reasons

A) I added lots of wood ash to the compost a year ago
B) I added charcoal to the mix which is alkaline
C) Vermiculite is also a high ph, and a buffer and sits at 7.5

Other possible issues and solutions I will try

A) Not enough Porosity/Air = +50% Perlite
B) Not enough Nutrients = +30% Compost
C) Too many nutrients causing lockout = +50% Pro Mix
D) Soil too alkaline = +30% Pine Needles

*So for A) the new mix will be 50% perlite, 50% the original mix.

Im taking this to a whole new level and will continually have a side by side grow with new versions of my soil mix and the control groups which will be:

A) the previous Soil Version (comparing old soil mix to new soil mix)
B) Pro Mix HP/Pure Blend Pro Nutrients (comparing soil mix to soilless)

So I will continue growing soilless with bottled nutes for now as It will take me some trial and error to get this mix to the point where I can grow successfully from it. I am planning for worst case scenario as I firmly believe I am the worst grower on ICMAG. Hopefully someone can learn from my trials here.

I will make a new ongoing thread dedicated to my soil recipe journey and post link.

Oh and this is why I will chalk it up as a failure.

DAY 12

For comparison this is someone else growing same strain with fluros on DAY 11

mintz · Aug 23, 2017

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when you can follow a true n tried formula that already works

mushroombrew · Aug 23, 2017

I think maybe some iron deficiency? Check runoff pH

growingcrazy · Aug 23, 2017

Do a test and see how many days it takes without water for your plants to droop. I think you will be surprised. Only water back what the plant needs to not droop for 3 days...now you know how much to water every other day. It is going to be a very small amount in that soil mixture.

PaulieWaulie · Aug 23, 2017

mintz said:
Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when you can follow a true n tried formula that already works

I was curious to see what a natural composted soil from my backyard would be able to produce. So whenever I have a tonne of deficiencies late in flowering, I will know the limits of compost and manures and worm castings etc. I will then for the remainder of my life feel better about using 10-20 different amendment knowing what they actually do for me. I wanted to do this and share it with the community here so everyone else can see the difference and appreciate it as well.

This could have happened with some of the recipes as well incase it is a ph issue. Biochar and vermiculite are common items, and I didn't add any more than recommended.

The point of this mix was reuse byproducts on my property for nutrients only:

Charcoal from fire pit
compost
earth worm bin
guineapig manure/bedding

I like doing things the hard way I guess

Doing an Experiment, anyone want to try and stop me ?

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The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...

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