Doing an Experiment, anyone want to try and stop me ?

PaulieWaulie · Jul 30, 2017

I will be running a soil mix in about 3 Weeks that has no amendments and only these ingredients that I had kicking around to see what a natural local composition of soil mix will provide:

3 Parts Pro Mix HP (recycled)
2 Parts Compost (2 years old from a tonne of variety of kitchen scraps)
2 Parts Walnut Shells ( Split in halves, a few years old - for aeration)
1 Part Horse Manure (Aged 10 Years)
1 Part Guinneapig Droppings/Bedding
1/4 Part Charcoal (little bits left over from the firepit ashes)

I don't think I will add dolomite lime even though I have some because my tap water is 190ppm with calcium and magnesium aplenty, and I don't think ph balance will be a concern as this stuff has composted for awhile and should be between 6-7 (Fully composted material will have a completely neutral ph.), and since its all organic it doesn't need ph adjusted anyways as I have read.

I will be only feeding blackstrap molasses and Liquid karma with every watering 5ml/G each. Liquid karma stops after 3 weeks bloom.

I originally had plans to go all out with hundreds of dollars of ammendments but want to see what a fully natural soil will provide for nutrition. At least for the first run, I understand I need to amend it each run with either more of these ingredients or amendments.

If things go bad I have some pure blend pro to supplement.

paradoxlost · Jul 31, 2017

I would definitely add something for calcium

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

Lots of perlite please. Lighten up that mix

PaulieWaulie · Jul 31, 2017

theres 130ppm of calcium in my tap water. And Im sure some of that will not be used in the early parts and dry in the mix and build up. My compost gets lots of eggshells I would think that will provide some calcium along with a little bit from all the other things that decomposed. I have some cal mag from pure blend pro that I can water if things don't work out. But once again, I want to see, how happy plants can grow with "naturally" built up soils.

The Pro Mix HP has a tonne of perlite to begin with, but I also added the walnut shells. They have a very irregular shape that will keep lots of air in the mix. its pretty light, when i mix it.

I do have some expanded clay bits I might throw in. In the future I will find a replacement for perlite to amend as it floats to the surface where it is useless and it crushes into powder so has to be replaced.

growingcrazy · Jul 31, 2017

I say run it. The weight of the mix means nothing except to your back.

Find out how much your fully watered mix weighs in your containers, and the weight 100% dry. Watering frequency will be one of your biggest concerns.

PaulieWaulie · Jul 31, 2017

Yeah I am only concerned to lighten it up in order to bring more air to the roots.

Also I will add mycorrhizae fungi when transplanting into these.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

Too heavy=slower growth.

Plants will still grow in heavy mixes but will not perform as well overall. Nothing at all to do with your back.

paradoxlost · Jul 31, 2017

Yea you need a certain amount of aeration in soil to maintain redox potential

growingcrazy · Jul 31, 2017

That mix already has a ton of porosity in it, you can see it. All the irregular shapes make many air pockets and resist compaction.

As stated by the OP, it is a lightweight mix, aka it has 0 soil in it.

I have personally run a mix that is very very similar, just with beech nut hulls instead of walnut... it is like running in coco, it dried out quickly and was very light weight.

I have found my best runs to be in a 90% topsoil mix, learn to water properly and aeration is just another hydro store gimmick.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

growingcrazy said:
That mix already has a ton of porosity in it, you can see it. All the irregular shapes make many air pockets and resist compaction.

As stated by the OP, it is a lightweight mix, aka it has 0 soil in it.

I have personally run a mix that is very very similar, just with beech nut hulls instead of walnut... it is like running in coco, it dried out quickly and was very light weight.

I have found my best runs to be in a 90% topsoil mix, learn to water properly and aeration is just another hydro store gimmick.

That mix is 100% organic material. Which is great. But not light. I used a similar mix outdoors in Hawaii. Except used 40% cinder stones. Which are very porous. Like pumice /perlite.

Hydro store gimmick? What does hydro have to do with it? You obviously havent tried a "light" mix next to a heavy one.

Use a heavy mix and water once a year for all I care. But telling others perlite is a gimmick? Thats just arrogant.

growingcrazy · Jul 31, 2017

I have yet to find a farmer adding perlite to fields. Or any aeration for that matter.

Do you understand the difference in field density between a mix like the OPs and soil? They are not even close.

Just because it is a "light" mix does not mean it drains well, same goes for a heavy soil, it does not necessarily mean it holds moisture longer. It is called texture and structure.

I want to see paulie fill a mason jar half full of that soil and the rest water, and shake. Let me know it a week when all that "heavy" organic matter finally settles.

It is all yours mushroombrew, you have obviously grown enough pot in Hawaii to be a soil expert.

PaulieWaulie · Jul 31, 2017

There is definitely a lot of solid pieces of charcoal,wanlut shells, stems, wood pieces, bones, that all add to the porosity of the mix. It will create plenty of air pockets, not absorb water itself, and make the roots grow out in different directions. Additionally there is still the perlite from the Pro mix which was HP (high porosity) having 30% perlite.

As far as watering frequency Im an expert. I always wait till they are nice and dry and water just before they start slowing down growth and drooping. I guess we will find out soon enough how long it takes for them to dry out. Im thinking every 4-5 days when roots are established and they are in full swing. My pro mix has been 3-4 days at peak growth.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

Your mix has a hell of alot of plant food in it. It will certainly grow lush plants.

Yeah there is porosity. I always lean towards more inert porous material.
So my perlite suggestion was two fold. More air and less food.

20% manures is a "hot" mix. And theres compost too. Quite rich I think.
Maybe go buy a $5 bag of perlite or similar? And make a small batch of 50% your mix 50% inert porous material. Coco even whatever.

Maybe do a little side by side? We can all learn something?

I just repotted a plant in flower for the first time...at the suggestion of another user. Testing side by side is the best way to learn.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

PS I like your Avatar. I rescued parrots on the Big Island HI between '05 and '10

I had 2 pairs of Solomons And a pair of Red Sided Eclectus.

They are all still happy and healthy in their new homes.

PaulieWaulie · Jul 31, 2017

mushroombrew said:
Your mix has a hell of alot of plant food in it. It will certainly grow lush plants.

Yeah there is porosity. I always lean towards more inert porous material.
So my perlite suggestion was two fold. More air and less food.

20% manures is a "hot" mix. And theres compost too. Quite rich I think.
Maybe go buy a $5 bag of perlite or similar? And make a small batch of 50% your mix 50% inert porous material. Coco even whatever.

Maybe do a little side by side? We can all learn something?

I just repotted a plant in flower for the first time...at the suggestion of another user. Testing side by side is the best way to learn.

I agree it is very rich, although I didn't think I had an issue with it being hot, because the horse manure is 10 years aged, and the Guineapig Manure is a mix of the bedding and dropping so I would say only 30% of it is actual droppings. Guinea droppings are supposed to be pretty close to rabbit, which isn't considered hot, and can be given directly to plants. Either way lets call the manure parts 17.5%. With the compost its been 2 years so nothing in there should be hot.

I think I will add my expanded clay pellets that I have so that will bring the manure ratio from 17.5% to 15%.

How old will those birds get ?

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

PaulieWaulie said:
I agree it is very rich, although I didn't think I had an issue with it being hot, because the horse manure is 10 years aged, and the Guineapig Manure is a mix of the bedding and dropping so I would say only 30% of it is actual droppings. Guinea droppings are supposed to be pretty close to rabbit, which isn't considered hot, and can be given directly to plants. Either way lets call the manure parts 17.5%. With the compost its been 2 years so nothing in there should be hot.

I think I will add my expanded clay pellets that I have so that will bring the manure ratio from 17.5% to 15%.

How old will those birds get ?

Yes it is composted. I just feel like there is an abundance of Nitrates.
I would make all that good stuff go further. But I don't think it's going to be bad for you plants at all.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

growingcrazy said:
I have yet to find a farmer adding perlite to fields. Or any aeration for that matter.

Do you understand the difference in field density between a mix like the OPs and soil? They are not even close.

Just because it is a "light" mix does not mean it drains well, same goes for a heavy soil, it does not necessarily mean it holds moisture longer. It is called texture and structure.

I want to see paulie fill a mason jar half full of that soil and the rest water, and shake. Let me know it a week when all that "heavy" organic matter finally settles.

It is all yours mushroombrew, you have obviously grown enough pot in Hawaii to be a soil expert.

I am not a soil expert. I am a botanist.

I am sorry you take offense to my opinions. But they are just opinions. There are many ways of growing and countless mix designs.

I simply said Cannabis performs better (my opinion) with more inert vs organic material. I consider anything with 80% organic material "Heavy". Anything inert. I am not in love with perlite.
I grow with closer to 45-50% organics.

All the pics in my albums of outdoor were in Sunshine #4. Which is 50% perlite.

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

PaulieWaulie · Jul 31, 2017

mushroombrew said:
I am not a soil expert. I am a botanist.

I am sorry you take offense to my opinions. But they are just opinions. There are many ways of growing and countless mix designs.

I simply said Cannabis performs better (my opinion) with more inert vs organic material. I consider anything with 80% organic material "Heavy". Anything inert. I am not in love with perlite.
I grow with closer to 45-50% organics.

All the pics in my albums of outdoor were in Sunshine #4. Which is 50% perlite.

So half organics (which is everything from compost to peat moss, to amendments to manure) and the other half Aerators like (perlite, pumice,lavarocks etc) ?

mushroombrew · Jul 31, 2017

By the way farmers plough their fields to add air and break up soil. After every harvest in most cases.
So yes air is introduced into fields. But not with perlite you smart arse.

Doing an Experiment, anyone want to try and stop me ?

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