Exploration of the Big O...Bodhi's Ae77 Cali O X's

thats a badass story. i love this thread

Here here Schrews.

Great little tribute to Billy Batman billycw, thanks for putting me right with it. That blood orange #2 looks fit.

The closest thing I've come across in years to calio was jillybean. Smell and taste were spot on!

Shcrews & Dognponyshow- Thanks, Batman deserves to be in history thought I'd put him on track in the forums. There are a couple more people I might write up but may not in this thread.

BOMBAYCAT- You found that rind pheno. Should be interesting what he passes.

BakedBandit- Have heard that for years about subcools cut of Melvin. I've heard claims of Oregon's cut of "sweet tangerine" being just as orange as cali o just a bit sweeter. Still have to say his cut looks closer to this then cali o. Sweet Tangerine is also said to have a better high by some.

Update time-
Have had 3 Satsuma's and 2 A11g x's sex female so far. Will start to throw into flower in about a week or two.

3 Satsuma females

2 Cali O x A11g females, sweeter more tangy then the satsuma's.

great stuff here billy! Don't know about the sweet tangerine, but i read somewhere that tangie might be a pheno of jillybean. Idk really though. I just popped a pack of ao, and tangerine kush, so hoping for some orange goodness too. Im tinkering around with the 12/1 veg light cycle to see if i can sex em early before transplant.

Ur girls are looking great. Hope u find some orange dankness in here. Im sure u will.

Miraculous Meds- Thanks. Admittedly the sweet tangerine being Melvin is a complete guess by me only based on appearance, description of both and location of origin(I believe the time line matches up for when these two cuts showed up as well). I've already talked myself into ordering a pack of Agent Orange for comparison. Good luck with the packs.

More digging around on Cali O has lead me again to a rabbit hole. I found a strain linage posted on a couple forums including here somewhere that has this breakdown for California Orange.

"California Orange = Thai x [Afghani x Acapulco Gold] = Thai x Early Girl"

The first part I have seen a couple times, its the "Thai x early girl" that intrigues me. This same strain list has this breakdown for early girl.

"Early Girl = Afghani x Mexican Sativa"

A "early girl" quick search relieved credit given to the mythical "Sandy Wienstien". But then I dug up this quote by Sam_Skunkman here on Icmag-

Sam_Skunkman
"And I have never met any Sandy Wienstien, ever.
Early Girl was not bred by Sandy Wienstien, and Durban Poison South Arican was cleaned up and developed by me alone, then I took it to Amsterdam."

Then I found this qoute by Sam as well-

Sam_Skunkman
"Sacred Seeds never had anyone breeding or making seeds except for me, I created it, I was the sole owner. Over the years I have said that I created or introduced many many varieties, maybe some misunderstandings, and Skunk #1 is one I bred myself. I also got Cal Orange, and a few others that I introduced, with permissions from the original breeders to make and sell the seeds, like I got for Original Haze."

Being the Early Girl showed up on the Sacred Seeds/Cultivators Choice 85 catalog as F2 same as the Cali O, I have some questions...

Questions (I guess mainly for Sam)-
What year were you given Cali O seeds? Did you get Early Girl seeds from the same source?

Sam your quoted as getting Permission from the original breeders, was that Jerry B for Cali O?

Sam you say with authority that Sandy did not breed early girl, do you know who the original breeder was to get permission to produce f2's? Did Jerry B breed Early Girl?


Blood Orange #2
bo#2 with leaf of bo#1 to left

BO#2

Hi bill, Sandy Wienstien was a friend of the canna author Mel Frank, if you look into Mel's 'Insiders guide', you will see a pic of Sandy and a few words about him from Mel.
Mel pays respect to his friend who passed away and goes on to say that Sandy was a gentle soul who exemplified the best in human nature', or something along those lines? I'm away from home at the moment but will check when I get back.
The pic shows Sandy carrying what looks to be a giant cola over his shoulder, freshly harvested.
Mel does not mention anything about Sandy being a 'grower, breeder or even trimmer', just a nice guy, I'm pretty sure if Sandy had bred anything special, Mel would have given him credit for it.

I know Sam has said that he did not know Sandy but as Mel and Sam were friends, he may have met him or maybe not??
Mel refers to Sam, in a book or two as the 'Unnamed breeder'.

Miraculous Meds said:

great stuff here billy! Don't know about the sweet tangerine, but i read somewhere that tangie might be a pheno of jillybean. Idk really though.

Click to expand...

Tangerine has been around since before jillybean. Used to see "tangerine dream" around, which people said was Tangerine x Purple Cream, but i never found out where the original Tangerine was from

in 07 i grew out a bagseed of the tangerine dream and found my own holy grail Tangerine strain , . ANyway my tangerine cut got whored out all over the bay and now some of my friends think that plant was the basis for the new generation of Tangie. And even if not, there is definitely some unique tangerine lineage that is separate from Cali O

Shcrews said:

Tangerine has been around since before jillybean. Used to see "tangerine dream" around, which people said was Tangerine x Purple Cream, but i never found out where the original Tangerine was from

i grew out a bagseed of the tangerine dream and found my own Holy Grail tangerine strain , that i then lost... some of my friends think that plant was the basis for the new generation of Tangie

Click to expand...

I seen scott from rd talk about the tangerine kush seeds I got come from the tangerine haze cut that was around co for a long while. Don't know if that's part of the tangerine dream lineage or not. but im pretty sure he clarified that its nothing to do with tangie though. So I think there is a tangerine haze, tange, tangie, and apparently sweet tangerine, which I just heard of from billy here. From my reading, the first 3 are all different lineages.

the tangie is definitely related to the norcal tangerine dream, or at least they have a very similar terpene profile. wouldnt be surprised if it's the same tangerine mom in both.

plants look great billycw.. I'm interested to see which strain yields the most.

window- Interesting, never knew a picture existed of "Sandy Weinstein". Remember back in the Cannabis world days, the talk was "Sandy" was a Alas like "Mel Frank" and Sandy worked in photography or editing for a living along with growing/breeding based in the midwest. Hard to recall all the threads I read back then... I have only read the online word doc of Mel's book will have to buy that one in print too, do you know which version of the Insiders Guide has the picture of "Sandy"?

Interesting 4 part interview with Mel Frank on Youtube, if you haven't watched it worth the time. Notice he says all the photo's in the book were his, then in his book "the Insiders Guide" he also thanks Sandy under the preface quoted here "and special thanks to Sandy Weinstein for help with the photography."
[YOUTUBEIF]f1SiiNRmSPc[/YOUTUBEIF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1SiiNRmSPc&list=PLAFF7B6B2FC9F2A0E

Shcrews & Miraculous Meds- interesting about the tangerine lines. Around my parts "Tang" came around 98ish a couple years after Cali O. Don't know which line this was but was a great smoke a little sweeter less peel smoke then cali o. Might have to throw in MVTF in the Tang discussion too.

Update
2 more females sexed out 1 each of Satsuma and A11g x. Love the double serrations on the A11g girls.

Satsuma female


Cali O x A11g female

Cali O x A11g leaf

Yeah, I've seen the Mel Frank interview before but thanks for the link, nice to watch it again.
It was great to finally put a face to the words I've read hundreds of times from Mel, one of my personal favourite canna authors, when I first saw the interview .
I've referred to the 'insider's guide' so many times over the years for help and info, I consider it one of the best books on the subject, even today.
It certainly started the ball rolling for me, thanks Mel.

My copy is from 1990, my only issue with the book is they have weak spines and the pages come away easily, a problem I think they fixed in later copies, so something to consider if you purchase one, I certainly need a new one.

Pic of 'Sandy'.


Keep digging

Your plants are looking great bill, I can't wait to see them in flower.

Male Satsuma starting to flower. I started gathering the pollen this morning. I will dry and freeze the pollen. If I pre-sexed ok I should have a couple females out in the garden so I will use the brown paper bag method to dust a couple branches of the best female. Satsuma is a poly-hybrid so I am not sure what to expect. I figure this F1 generation should not be too wild though.

Miraculous Meds said:

I seen scott from rd talk about the tangerine kush seeds I got come from the tangerine haze cut that was around co for a long while. Don't know if that's part of the tangerine dream lineage or not. but im pretty sure he clarified that its nothing to do with tangie though. So I think there is a tangerine haze, tange, tangie, and apparently sweet tangerine, which I just heard of from billy here. From my reading, the first 3 are all different lineages.

Click to expand...

pretty sure the tangerine haze is nycd x g13haze from soma's stock fwiw

window- Great find, thanks for sharing. Shame more of these early guys haven't put down their stories. Pretty cool when the legends are real.

BOMBAYCAT- Looking good, nice structure on that male. Its a poly but I think Aeric77 worked her a bit as she seems stable enough to pass much of herself on.

Little update on the Blood Oranges
BO#1 at about 26 days in flower. Nice branching totem pole structure. Not to much smell coming off her yet but a nice sweet skunk type developing.

Blood Orange #2 is about 18 days in flower. Leaves really thinning out to long jagged fingers. Much lighter in color then #1, with a nice neon lime green color she really stands out in the garden. This pheno when topped went back to the christmas tree shape and has alternating node spacing(have noticed this with some of the cali o x a11g too). A nice citrus tone with a real tropical sweetness coming into its own. Really loving this one.

BO#2 18 days flower

Found a little snippet of info about Cali-O in an old copy of 'indoor marijuana horticulture' by Jorge Cervantes, words by Rob Clark.....
'California Orange' is a stabilized C, sativa X C, afghanica hybrid variety of medium height and yield developed by Cultivator's Choice. The medium green, medium broad-leaf plants produce copious resin even on the surface of the small leaflets.
Some individuals have a pronounced citrus aroma and flavour.'California Orange' is very potent with a fairly clear high and requires 8-10 weeks to mature under 12 hour photoperiod.

I just put 5 C+ into soak, I need some citrus herb
A couple of years ago I grew a "Californian skunk haze'' from Seedsman's 'Skunk man' range, I think it was Cali-o x skunk haze, very sativa dominated and had a powerful up high which became very dreamy after a long cure, aroma like tangerines but a bit more exotic.
Lost my cut of it and was devastated.

My money is on BO #2 for the citrus stinker bill.

Discovered I mixed up BO#1 with a Bodhi's spaced cake in the garden when I put them into flower. Never really checked pots because "I was sure thats where I put it". After I got a little cookie dough type smell I looked and yep I'm a dumbass. I apologize for the mix up, I will go back and edit when I have a chance.

So for I guess the first time in flower update of Blood Orange #1 at 30 days 12/12. Much more along the lines on the smells of a cali o x. Very sweet skunk with a lemony maybe a touch of citrus funk. Structure looks very nice forming for very large running buds. Really nice dusting of early snow started.




for a look at the structure

early closeup

That's an interesting structure. my evergreen pheno of azure haze grows that way, while her sister, the bb pheno, grows chunky colas.

frost does look pretty good for that amount of bud set. How long is that one suppose to flower for?