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O2 Emitter: Anybody Using it?

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The first and last frontier is how to maximize oxygenating the nutrient solution .

I''ve been on a mission to up my game. So far nanobubbles seems like a viable idea, but I can't seem to find any actual grows using it.

The closest Ive come is a YT video of a guy pumping oxygen from a cylinder. His plants look awesome, but it's a lot of hardware taking up space in the grow room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFQ...k0h00410.1528563303919228&feature=em-comments

Could this be a simpler solution for small growers? Again I can't find anyone using it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjPcrCwgGIo&t=202s
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
At some point there is a perfect balance of the plant being suspended in mid air, yet also suspended in a nutrient solution. A combination of all hydro methods functioning simultaneously. Some will tell you you can't have both.

Flooding and draining, atomizing solution, bubbles popping and misting, o2 being dissolved. Basically foam, without the soap somehow. That's what a cell full of nano bubbles appears to be..
 

RockinRobot

Active member
A given volume of water at a given temperature can only hold so much oxygen. The higher the temperature the less oxygen the water can hold, regardless of the method used to introduce the oxygen.

Those emitters create oxygen by electrolysis. This means they also give off hydrogen. Hydrogen, like CO2, when mixed with nutrient solution could possibly form nitric acid, so for myself I would worry about it causing ph fluctuations as well.

Bubbles are the least efficient method of adding oxygen. A small pump that barely breaks the surface will cause more oxygen to be dissolved than any type of emitter or airstone.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
By far the best roots I ever had was when I played with High Pressure Aeroponics (HPA). When the RH and ambient temps were within reasonable parameters, the roots looked like fine volleyball- basketball size cotton candy. Imagine the surface area that was highly sensitive to feeding from a ~ 20-80 micron nutrient rich mist. Alas, where I live, the summers are too long and too hot to keep the root chambers and therefor root hairs happy.So, I went back to F & D, with a few tweaks to increase DO, like running a second pump in my rezes coordinating with flood times, and I added ActivAqua screens inside my totes (see pic) to further increase DO going in. Some say neither of these is necessary, but they don't cost much, and are part of my quest

It took me many years of using a DIY bubbler with 4 @ 4" fine ceramic discs before I asked myself "What if". So this last set up for seedlings I combined a ~ 300 gph pump with HPA mist heads on a deep cycle timer 2-3 minutes on/~ 5-10 minutes off

Although I always had nice bubbler roots, never anything like these


View attachment 458994 View attachment 458995 View attachment 458996
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
I used to build decent sized hho electrolyzer cells from stacks of stainless steel wall switch recepticle plates and big glass jars. I would flash heat and cool the plates first to de-magnetize what was left from the machining process, then make flash back arresters, and go around hooking up to old lawn mowers, etc..

I knew that you couldn't really use them to create more energy or act as a catalyst and increase fuel mileage (well you can to some extent), but I also didn't give a crap because I knew something even better:

A bunch of parks and places to park for free all day and plug in upwards of 10 battery chargers to 10+ deep cycle batteries, sitting in the back of my little carbed 4 cylinder mighty max pickup truck.

Because who cares how many mpg your getting, like the guys trying to sell them were telling you, when you can drive around and turn "free" energy directly into gas ;)





Anyways I was gonna say, it really doesn't cost anything to make a little cell, and hook it to a battery. You can use nails if you wanted to.

The hydrogen wouldn't be a big deal, but ya I would be worried about creating toxic waste from the nutrients, as far as i know though..

Suppose you could use it in a cloner with pure water. Either way, its been a long time, but
will go ahead and make one. Then drop it in a bucket with a plant, just for kicks.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I used to build decent sized hho electrolyzer cells from stacks of stainless steel wall switch recepticle plates and big glass jars. I would flash heat and cool the plates first to de-magnetize what was left from the machining process, then make flash back arresters, and go around hooking up to old lawn mowers, etc..

I knew that you couldn't really use them to create more energy or act as a catalyst and increase fuel mileage (well you can to some extent), but I also didn't give a crap because I knew something even better:

A bunch of parks and places to park for free all day and plug in upwards of 10 battery chargers to 10+ deep cycle batteries, sitting in the back of my little carbed 4 cylinder mighty max pickup truck.

Because who cares how many mpg your getting, like the guys trying to sell them were telling you, when you can drive around and turn "free" energy directly into gas ;)





Anyways I was gonna say, it really doesn't cost anything to make a little cell, and hook it to a battery. You can use nails if you wanted to.

The hydrogen wouldn't be a big deal, but ya I would be worried about creating toxic waste from the nutrients, as far as i know though..

Suppose you could use it in a cloner with pure water. Either way, its been a long time, but
will go ahead and make one. Then drop it in a bucket with a plant, just for kicks.

I was wondering how nutrients responded. Too much could be toxic, but the right amount would/should make the nutrient solution more bioavailable.

some trial and error should be expected, but once you have one, Im sure O2Grow will bring some knowledge to help find a happy medium.

I flood every 2 hours. According to what I think I gleaned on O2Grow the DO stays n suspension for ~ 12 hours, but dissipates during each flood cycle,

Im thinking I only need to run the emitter for a couple minutes (3 gallon rezes) of course larger rezes would require longer on time , to reoxygenate
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
A given volume of water at a given temperature can only hold so much oxygen. The higher the temperature the less oxygen the water can hold, regardless of the method used to introduce the oxygen.

Those emitters create oxygen by electrolysis. This means they also give off hydrogen. Hydrogen, like CO2, when mixed with nutrient solution could possibly form nitric acid, so for myself I would worry about it causing ph fluctuations as well.

Bubbles are the least efficient method of adding oxygen. A small pump that barely breaks the surface will cause more oxygen to be dissolved than any type of emitter or airstone.

Definitely food for thought, bu it would only be on prior to each flood. Now Im exploring direct injecting pure O2. Some guy is using it, but I can't find where he responded to me. Maybe on one of the O2Grow YT videos
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
I looked into it and there are plenty of older threads about using DIY electrolyzer cells for adding o2 in hydro.. most opt for irridium coated titanium plates.

The key is to get the plate spacing correct, or it can produce chlorine (like thats a bad thing?), or other things you don't want.

I would consider buying just the replaceable cells for what $55? Then build my own PWM power supply, probably from an old cpu unit, etc. Most the work is in the cell design, and value in the material used for it.



I was thinking, wondering if could i use some sliced out core material from an old automobile catalytic converter, to make my plates with? I would torch any thing off before use, and make a whole stack of replacements.

I'm thinking about maybe upgrading just my cloner to HHO. And have a portable cell that can dunk into the res if ever needed, to fight off pathogens and whatnot.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I looked into it and there are plenty of older threads about using DIY electrolyzer cells for adding o2 in hydro.. most opt for irridium coated titanium plates.

The key is to get the plate spacing correct, or it can produce chlorine (like thats a bad thing?), or other things you don't want.

I would consider buying just the replaceable cells for what $55? Then build my own PWM power supply, probably from an old cpu unit, etc. Most the work is in the cell design, and value in the material used for it.



I was thinking, wondering if could i use some sliced out core material from an old automobile catalytic converter, to make my plates with? I would torch any thing off before use, and make a whole stack of replacements.

I'm thinking about maybe upgrading just my cloner to HHO. And have a portable cell that can dunk into the res if ever needed, to fight off pathogens and whatnot.

Seems like a DO meter is required to make sure not to overdose O2. But damn a DO meter starts around $400

I asked BigDan for a n O2 tutorial, but he says it's on his videos, except there isn't any actual O2 info that I can find
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
DAMN! His 28 day old main stalks are big, as are the plants. Not sure I agree that his Gavits kick sand in all LEDs faces, but, they are mos def doing the job

I left a comment aksing whether he uses a DO meter to dose. Hopefully, he enlightens us a little


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpyyEWIX1Ps
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
How come they didn't hook a DO meter up to grandma that smoked for over 50 years, and was on oxygen. Why would humans be less important than plants, they just hand you a semi regulated bottle and off you go it seams... "if you feel funny just use less!"


I would\will just keep my amperage low (under 1-2 amps) and run a few tests, try to find the best output levels, before the plants get dizzy.

In fact you could probably use a simple gas/flow meter.. or a torch tip and get the flame to just barely self sustain, to find out how much hydrogen, and calculate the amount of o2 from just a few readings alone. The cell placed in a separate test container of course.

A meter would be cool though, especially if it could switch the cell on and off when needed. It better for that much..


Its like the mini-split of air pumps, perfect for a sealed room. Air only has around 28% oxygen and your air pumps are forcing pounds worth of co2 out of the cracks over time. If you live in a smoggy area it's gonna make its way into your system, and plants too.. Better to just produce your own, or use the bottles.

I still think the best way would be a remote dual cell that outputs pure oxygen from one of the ports and hydrogen from the other.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
How come they didn't hook a DO meter up to grandma that smoked for over 50 years, and was on oxygen. Why would humans be less important than plants, they just hand you a semi regulated bottle and off you go it seams... "if you feel funny just use less!"


I would\will just keep my amperage low (under 1-2 amps) and run a few tests, try to find the best output levels, before the plants get dizzy.

In fact you could probably use a simple gas/flow meter.. or a torch tip and get the flame to just barely self sustain, to find out how much hydrogen, and calculate the amount of o2 from just a few readings alone. The cell placed in a separate test container of course.

A meter would be cool though, especially if it could switch the cell on and off when needed. It better for that much..


Its like the mini-split of air pumps, perfect for a sealed room. Air only has around 28% oxygen and your air pumps are forcing pounds worth of co2 out of the cracks over time. If you live in a smoggy area it's gonna make its way into your system, and plants too.. Better to just produce your own, or use the bottles.

I still think the best way would be a remote dual cell that outputs pure oxygen from one of the ports and hydrogen from the other.

I'm going to try O2 injections. I have the luxury of being able to see into the bottom of my rezes, so I can inject pure O2 until it appears cloudy, though with pure O2, it may not cloud up as the O2Grow Emitter system does
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Alas, the grower injecting pure O2 is not forthcoming

It seems like either Direct Oxygen Injection (DOI) or an emitter system necessitates having a DO meter ($500+) to know when to emit and when to stop. Perhaps there is no such thing as too much DO, but operating it longer than necessary means the emitters (or O2 tank) life is shortened

As I understand it the DO remains in solution for ~ 12 hours before dissipating. Also, the DO is spent when the solution is agitated, as it would be in a F & D.

I flood every 2 hours, which means I could put the emitter on a deep cycle timer to eyeball saturaton after each flood

Knowing the approximate 'on' time per gallon could eliminate the need for a $500 DO meter
.without actual cannabis grows to draw from the potential benefit might be negligible, but, if as Dennis from O2Gro says it make nutrients ~ 30% more efficient/effective. If you go through ~ 10 gallons a year, that savings alone could pay for the system.

I don't have that issue, for me it would be more about the science.
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
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