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Vital Nutrients - is air really a vital nutrient in a DWC/RDWC or no?

J

JohnM

Member
They say that this nutrient and that nutrient is essential if you want to be successful. They say you got to keep a close eye on the vital nutrients, use this and that test to see what the nutrient concentration is in the res water.
Some say that air is a vital nutrient and others say that air is not a vital nutrient for DWC/RDWC cannabis grows.
If air is a vital nutrient, how do you Dudes test for air in res water? And how do you know if you have enough air or not enough air?
Many claim that if you don’t have enough air in your res water, you got to buy bigger air pumps that will pump more air and more air bubblers because more air bubblers and better than less air bubbles. Some say that little bubbles are better than big bubbles. Some say you don’t need air bubbles at all because air will equalize on the water surface.
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Air is not an essential nutrient but the oxygen in it is ;) . With enough bubbles you saturate the water with oxygen and oxygen saturated water is allegedly best for optimal root growth in hydro. Besides, yes, smaller bubbles are better and just letting the water "equilibrate from the surface" won't really work IMHO (experience with this and that but not water culture!).
I've recently read of a technique without aeration which is supposed to work with some veggies... obviously, many soils have poor aeration and the plant can "shuffle" oxygen down to its roots to keep them alive but that is an extra effort which might take its toll on the final yield. From experience with aquariums and the like I wouldn't want an oxygen poor water cause I don't like anaerobic bacteria.
 
mrrangz

mrrangz

Member
JohnM said:
They say that this nutrient and that nutrient is essential if you want to be successful. They say you got to keep a close eye on the vital nutrients, use this and that test to see what the nutrient concentration is in the res water.
Some say that air is a vital nutrient and others say that air is not a vital nutrient for DWC/RDWC cannabis grows.
If air is a vital nutrient, how do you Dudes test for air in res water? And how do you know if you have enough air or not enough air?
Many claim that if you don’t have enough air in your res water, you got to buy bigger air pumps that will pump more air and more air bubblers because more air bubblers and better than less air bubbles. Some say that little bubbles are better than big bubbles. Some say you don’t need air bubbles at all because air will equalize on the water surface.
Click to expand...

oxygen is key for successful DWC//RDWC operation. The colder the water temp is, the more oxygen it will hold. Reverse for warm water temp = low oxygen levels which equals to your plant drowning.

You can grow in warm temps, but just be proactive on controlling heat where the water will be (buckets).

- throw a fan blowing at the buckets.
- avoid black buckets
- watch what you add to your rez (no carbs or enzymes)
- stay away from organics if your new to dwc/rdwc

there is tons of info on this topic, hopefully this helps.
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Start with 3 watts of airpump per 10 gallons. You're pushing too much air through when you notice the pH rising. A rise in pH which drops when some/all of the pumps are turned off.

Smaller bubbles are better (read university science, not canna pseudo-science), with airstones beating out open lines every time. Nutrient temperatures below 65F will give you problems with nutrient uptake and growth. Nutrient temperatures above 70F require constant vigilance against biological outbreaks.

:tiphat:
 
J

JohnM

Member
Good points, thanks.
If pumping too much air increases the res water pH, do you test the pH with a meter often and cut the air off or down if the pH gets too alkalotic? How quickly does the alkalosis exhibit?
OK, I’m convinced that oxygen and air are different, actually very different gases. Air is a mixture of elemental gases primarily 4/5 nitrogen and 1/5 oxygen (not very much O2 comparatively), more air does not mean plenty oxygen (O2). More air means a lot more nitrogen which is also a vital nutrient.
Can you get too much nitrogen and harm the plant?
What DO saturation do you consider optimal?
If oxygen (DO) is really an essential nutrient and that important, how do you test your DO?
Is testing pH and water temperature more important than testing DO?
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
The standard formula, for years now, has been at least 3 watts of airpump power, per ten gallons of nutrient. It's a rough number which has worked well. Look around and you'll find Liter/minute numbers as well, which may be helpful to some. I throw in 3w/10g and I'm good. A few times I've added more. Check the pH, turn on the new pump for an hour and re-check the pH. pH goes up? Take out the pump and stones. No pH change? Leave it. Done. :) You really don't need to add extra thought to it.

I wouldn't pay much attention to nitrogen in the air, it's not going to affect what you're doing.

Tip... putting the airpump in cool air will cool the nutrient solution. ;)
 
J

JohnM

Member
Douglas.Curtis said:
The standard formula, for years now, has been at least 3 watts of airpump power, per ten gallons of nutrient... Look around and you'll find Liter/minute numbers as well, which may be helpful to some.
Tip... putting the airpump in cool air will cool the nutrient solution. ;)
Click to expand...


This sounds good like you say.


Question, have you ever really tested the DO in your res water to actually see what the DO is in your res water?


Or do you guess what the DO should be and not test the DO?
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
JohnM said:
This sounds good like you say.


Question, have you ever really tested the DO in your res water to actually see what the DO is in your res water?


Or do you guess what the DO should be and not test the DO?
Click to expand...
Never tested. Kits were always too expensive and never saw the need.

A few times I've not paid enough attention and ended up with not enough airpump power. Plants get near the peak of flower (max o2 usage) and just keel over within a few days. They look like they want water when what they really want is Oxygen. ;)
 
J

JohnM

Member
Douglas.Curtis said:
Plants get near the peak of flower (max o2 usage) and just keel over within a few days. They look like they want water when what they really want is Oxygen. ;)
Click to expand...
"They say that this nutrient and that nutrient is essential if you want to be successful." Guess O2 is really essential for everything else to work. Just have to hope, watch and wait and see what happens... sometimes you win and sometimes you fail... but, either way it turns out, it's always fun regardless of how it turns out several months down the road.
 
J

JohnM

Member
Douglas.Curtis said:
Make sure you have 3w of airpump, per 10 gallons, and you'll be just fine. lol :)
Click to expand...



If I wanted more O2 to be on the safe side of oxygenation do you think this might work better... If I use a 10w air pump per 10 gallons would I get 3 times as much oxygen per gallon? The cost difference would be minimal.


What is the elevation where you grow?
Thanks
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
There's only so much oxygen which can be solubilised in water, bubbling more just increases the chances to evaporate it faster.
If you really want the maximum possible, switch to aeroponics ;) .
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
JohnM said:
If I wanted more O2 to be on the safe side of oxygenation do you think this might work better... If I use a 10w air pump per 10 gallons would I get 3 times as much oxygen per gallon? The cost difference would be minimal.


What is the elevation where you grow?
Thanks
Click to expand...
I've grown at many elevations, it doesn't matter.

If you use 10w for 10 gallons, you're most likely going to see a pH spike. Stick with what's worked for 20+ years and you'll be fine. Do your experimentations with a second micro-grow. ;)
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
JohnM said:
Why would aeroponics deliver the max O2 possible compared to bigger air pumps or bigger venturies or higher waterfalls?
Click to expand...
Because the roots are hanging in air and they have massive exposure to oxygen. The spraying action of the nutrient also introduces a significant amount of O2.

Good stuff, just not my cup of tea. :)
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
JohnM said:
Are you saying that you don’t grow DWC/RDWC hydroponics?
Click to expand...
Please re-read the thread, it sounds like you're confused. I've plainly stated 15+ years experience with DWC. The last response was to a question asking only about aeroponics.
 
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