Exactly WHICH terpenes are colorless, odorless and tasteless?

I have been making carts for some friends and I am curious about 'dilutants'.

There are a zillion people/companies selling concentrate dilutant who claim some 'secret recipe' of terpenes.

I have looked and looked and after looking at the characteristics of about 300 terpenes that are supposed to be in cannabis, I am only finding ONE that claims to be odorless and tasteless.... Dimal H

Searching for information about terpenes shows 1,000,000+ results. Most of them are companies selling dilutant. Sad. I can't find many sites with straight info on terps. And. most terp info sites are focused on the 5 or 10 terps that are prevalent in cannabis.

Anyway, here is one site with some info. If you know any others, I would love to see a link

https://www.nipponterpene.co.jp/english/products/terpene_flavor.html

There must be a thousand companies selling concentrate dilutant with a claim of some secret or proprietary blend of flavorless and odorless terpenes. Yet, I can only found ONE terp that claims to be both odorless and flavorless.

Anyone??

Thanks




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Just a couple of thoughts:
I think a lot of terp companies are just being middle men and actually have nothing to do with the production of these isolated terps.
While I was looking around, previous to the TT debacle, I noticed that many of these Terp Companies are peddling somebody elses products. It appeared that several are bulk ordering from TT and relabeling that stuff with their labels. I mean... The blends are exactly the same!


I am also interested in the question posed.


Have you emailed any of the terp companies?
I think their answers could be interesting and possibly very revealing.

Considering terpenes are called "aromatic hydrocarbons", I think it'd have to be nearly odorless.

A few people shed some light on what TT's blend might be, if you are interested you can dig through the thread here and on F4200.

Coincidentally enough, or not, Floraplex posted their terpene diluent ingredient list to F4200 just 13 days ago...
(−)-β-elemene
β-bisabolene
Phytol
(−)-α-bisabolol
https://future4200.com/t/floraplex-...iluent-full-ingredients-and-information/17798

slant.i said:

Considering terpenes are called "aromatic hydrocarbons", I think it'd have to be nearly odorless.

A few people shed some light on what TT's blend might be, if you are interested you can dig through the thread here and on F4200.

Coincidentally enough, or not, Floraplex posted their terpene diluent ingredient list to F4200 just 13 days ago...
(−)-β-elemene
β-bisabolene
Phytol
(−)-α-bisabolol
https://future4200.com/t/floraplex-...iluent-full-ingredients-and-information/17798

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll check it out.

However, a brief review shows

(−)-β-elemene.... Odor Strength:medium sweet herbal lavender woody

β-bisabolene...... Odor Description:Woody, citrus, valencene, fruity, tropical, terpy, green and banana
Mosciano, Gerard P&F 20, No. 4, 23, (1995)

Phytol... Odor Strength:low floral balsamic powdery waxy Odor Description:at 100.00 %. delicate floral balsam powdery waxy
Luebke, William tgsc, (1987)

(−)-α-bisabolol... Odor Strength:low floral peppery balsamic clean Odor Description:at 100.00 %. mild floral peppery balsamic clean


Hardly the constituents that would go into something I would call odorless and tasteless. I'm not saying anything against the people making dilutents, I am just trying to figure out what terps are odorless and tasteless as they are all claiming.

Perhaps they are heating it or boiling it to take out the flavor and odor? That doesn't make sense.

I'm just confused



.

I'm hopping on this thread to see what else may be unveiled thanks to all who already have contributed helpful content

Just for anyone reading and not going to the Future site, here is what that manufacturer said about their terps.....


(−)-α-bisabolol is the main ingredient in our next generation High Viscosity Terpene Diluent. It has a flowery odor and flavor in the bottle, but when diluted down into products it not noticeable or is practically unnoticeable.

(−)-β-elemene is a very interesting terpene that is rare and very, very expensive. It’s practically odorless. It’s only now getting attention by the research community and offers very interesting and promising results. We source it from overseas (Europe) and as far as we know we’re the only company utilizing this unique and exciting terpene.

β-bisabolene is a unique terpene that’s practically odorless with promising initial research results. It is not found in any other terpene product on the market we know of, except maybe as part of an essential oil.

Phytol is very interesting as well. It’s pretty viscous and is practically odorless and flavorless.





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pristine and squalene are two other substances mentioned that could fit the criteria.

You might be able to narrow your search down a bit by looking at other properties besides just odor. My point earlier was mostly that "terpenes" refers to a "large and diverse class of organic compounds", far from exclusive to cannabis or even plants. The one you are looking for may not even be plant based. If you knew some other properties, like being safe for human consumption or cannabis or even plant based, it might help you get a little closer to what you are looking for.

Also, I'm not entirely sure it would need to be completely odorless as it is going to be mixed with stronger odors that will probably over power, which might be why they say "practically odorless" because in practice in might be.

Thank you so very much for putting me on the path. Information like yours does more than inform.... it's helps me learn for myself by giving me guidance on what needs to be learned.

Thanks again






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[FONT=&quot]While any hydrocarbon molecule with an aromatic ring is classified as an aromatic, terpenes larger than a C-15 sesquiterpene have little odor, yet typically do still have flavor. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As a point of reference, C-10 is where the most intense odors fall and C-15 is where the flavonoids fall. On average, odor and flavor tapers off as the molecules get longer, with no other additions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A terpene is based on C-5 isoprene units, which don’t have to be arranged in ring form, as evidenced by the triterpene squalene molecule.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I’ve found Thegoodscentscompany.com to be good source of information on terpene odor and other data. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For instance, here is a link for the triterpene squalene: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]https://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1284311.html[/FONT]

Ah! those were the properties that would narrow your search.

Great info, thanks GW!

hydrocarbon crash course

alkenes & alkynes crash course

aromatics and cyclics

Some videos I found helpful in trying to understand all of this. I'm really glad I saw this debate because I realized I didn't even really know what a terpene was.

slant.i said:

hydrocarbon crash course

alkenes & alkynes crash course

aromatics and cyclics

Some videos I found helpful in trying to understand all of this. I'm really glad I saw this debate because I realized I didn't even really know what a terpene was.

Click to expand...

Thanks brother! Good crash course.

A mnemonic trick I use for remembering the groups and first four Alkanes, is "Mary Eats Peanut Butter." The rest follow the Greek alphabet. IE: Pent, Hex, Hept, Oct, etc....................

Mary/Methane/methyl, Eats/Ethane/ethyl, Peanut/Propane/Pentyl, Butter/Butane/Butyl.

For ya'll just starting out, or like myself took organic chemistry around the middle of the previous century, the book "Organic Chemistry for Dummies" is a good summary.

Especially those of ya'll that don't ponder and memorize as fast as the professor talks and don't feel confident passing a test after watching it once or twice.

Available as quick reference if you need to go back and check something later.

You can always order it on line, or pick it up from the local book store as a "birthday gift for a friend" and then hide it a book dust cover from another more impressive title that glazes folks eyes over, if you have an image to protect.

Another book more directly related to plant Alkanes, Alkenes, and Alkynes, is "Essential Oil Safety", by Tisserand, and Young.

It provides a good overview of where the plant terpenes and terpenoids come from, as well as attendant safety concerns as of the Second editions printing of 2014.

Ditto on that thanks... nice links.

@OP


Triethyl citrate is a food grade flavorless/odorless terpene based dilutent.

Thanks

cbcool said:

@OP


Triethyl citrate is a food grade flavorless/odorless terpene based dilutent.

Click to expand...

C12H20O7 Triethyl citrate is actually an ester of C6H8O7 citric acid as opposed to a terpene.

Thanks for the clarification, GW.

are all terpenes equal in regards to how they effect the human body including when applied with heat and drawn into the lungs?





https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214750016300439


Chemical and biological studies of β-carotene after exposure to Cannabis sativa smoke

I totally have this problem with all dilutants. Eating something is way different than smoking or vaping it. And, so little testing has been done.

It makes me wonder if nature really ever intended us to smoke pot. The Bible speaks of topicals using it and there are many events in ancient history indicating edibles made with cannabis but has there ever been evidence that man smoked pot in ancient times? I wonder.

Smoking just about anything involves a ton of carbon going into your lungs. Can't see any real good in that. Nature doesn't usually direct us to stuff like that.

I have stopped using carts altogether until this all gets hashed out. I mostly vape rosin or flower and now that it's Spring, I enjoy sitting outside and smoking an occasional joint. Albeit, my lungs just won't take smoking of any kind any more. LOL Fucking hate old age. LOL

Interesting article on carotene. I am a big consumer of carotene since I am always starving for A and D. I live in a cave and D is hard to come by. Can never get enough A. Eggs almost every day. Just bought a jar of fish oil. Plan to try that for the first time.

Thanks again for all the input, gang.






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Clearly all terpenes are not equal when eaten, used in suppositories, rubbed on the skin, or inhaled.

Terpenes also break down and readily change form around 710F, and some of the biproducts are known carcinogens.

The effects burning the terpenes in the concentrations seen in plant material and vaporizing those terpenes in concentration are also different, as the poison is always in the dosage and some of the terpenes will strip paint and sanitize toilet bowls in concentration.

The truth is that there haven't been studies conducted beyond the concentrations used in aroma therapy, and many of the terpenes don't even have MSDS sheets because they have been considered, herbs, spices, and misc flavors.

I told myself that I would quit smoking cannabis when I needed glasses or went crazy, which in my case came in the form of mild COPD, so I switched to dabbing and I'm convinced that making the decision to smoke cannabis, is making the personal decision to at least expose yourself to COPD.

Based on my COPD improving some and not getting worse, I've come to believe using pure unadulterated concentrates with a temperature controlled electric nail is a better option.

Some of the concentrates samples that people give me have terpenes added back or terpenes added, which I would prefer as an adulterant as opposed to dilutants, if some care is given to what those terpenes are, and their content is kept close to the levels normally encountered in plant material.

Terpenes have their own medicinal effects, as well as adding flavor and aroma, but none of the terpenes that add flavor and aroma are particularly smooth to vaporize, so over doing it adds aroma, but at the expense of harshness.

I suspect that time will show that vaporizing and inhaling VG, PG, PEG, MCT, squalane, triethyl citrate, et all, brings with a whole different set of health issues long term.

Pages back GRAS was mentioned, but GRAS is heavily influenced by usage.

For instance, the mineral oil that started this debate is GRAS in food stuff below 5 ppm as a release agent, and you will find Sulfuric Acid on that same list.

I think we can all agree that inhaling either is insalubrious, so its GRAS status is moot.

What is needed, is long term studies in the usage at hand, which we ostensibly won't have for some time.