STRESS TO MAKE FEMALES EXPRESS INTERSEXED FLOWERS

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 22, 2008

I have received several requests to explain how to tell a TRUE FEMALE.
I suggested trying to make a female clone to express male flowers will show it is not a TRUE FEMALE.

Photoperiod disorders. Light leaks.
Photoperiod shock from 20 hours light to 8 and back up to 20.
Lumins disorders, too high or too low of lumins.
Too Hot or Cold.
Too Wet or Dry, air or soil.
Nutrients out of wack, to much or to little.
Pruning shock, plant or roots.
Transplant shock.
Insect shock.
Disease shock.
Self one plant with STS, grow out the progeny, stress test for intersexed flowers. (this also often shows intersexed plants without any stress)

ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS TO USE STRESS TO MAKE A FEMALE EXPRESS A FEW MALE FLOWERS?

-SamS

bounty29 · Sep 22, 2008

So would selfed seeds from a true female be female 100% of the time? What are the benefits of working with "true females"?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 22, 2008

Yes, they are.

No intersexed plants, if the females used to make the seeds are TRUE FEMALES.

-SamS

Kabong · Sep 22, 2008

well i have no experiance in this area, but ive chatted with a fella that has the indy bublegum cut, he says he cant get that bugger to reverse for the life of him. all methods fail. WTF i always thought a true female was like that?? what gives

happyherb · Sep 22, 2008

interesting topic.....i have some dalat thai seeds that i know the only way to get anything good from these in the next generation is to test them hard to find good parents due to there easy herming ...

frank wills /20' thai...has given me a little info on finding/weeding out the best ones to start with....thou too much stress will herm most any plant.... i feel with a hermi prone strain it will be hard with under 20 seeds to find a hermi free "true" male and female. is it an impossible task to begin with ?.....i just wonder - how much stress with a pure thai is to much and is it to much to expect to find hermi free specimens ? .HH. =]-~

bounty29 · Sep 22, 2008

I began looking into this topic while considering working on some breeding with thai genetics. Funny you mention that happyherb.

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 22, 2008

I have only found a few in the thousands of Thai seeds I imported and grew out.
Some varieties have more intersexed genes in them, like THAI.
Many Thais will hermi without any stress.

-SamS

Brastaman · Sep 22, 2008

i have been able to isolate sections of the plant to express male flowers by spraying generic fertilizers on the female flowers midday. It is tricky though cuz the female flowers wanted to die. If i was able to keep them alive most of them hermied.

bounty29 · Sep 23, 2008

When breeding with True Females, do you need to use a True Male in order to get the benefits of no intersexed seeds? What if the father was prone to herm and the mother was a true female?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 23, 2008

I bet a intersexed male could be as bad as an intersexed female for the genepool.
But it is a lot less damage to the rest of the crop being grown at the time.
I do not know if intersexed females and intersexed males are moderated by the same genes, and either sex will get them if they are present, or if they are gender specific and different for each sex and have no influence on the other sex.
Anyone else have an opinion?

-SamS

JLP · Sep 23, 2008

Well I guess this one kind of relates to transplant shock but I cut a clone from a Durban female very late in flower once,actually it was the day I harvested the plant and it was one of the lower buds.This put the clone under a lot of stress and it didn't look like it would make it.It took forever to root and revert back to veg but when it did it sported male pollen sacs under 24 hours of light.

JLP

foomar · Sep 23, 2008

Years ago i drenched some pots with a Rotenone based insecticide and they all went hermie , even small cuttings within a week.
It is repeatable if the dose is correct , will cause damage that will recover in a week.
Do not know if it is a response to the specific chemical or to stress and root damage caused by it but it seems as reliable as silver and the seed was viable and no more hermie than the originals.

bounty29 · Sep 23, 2008

Between your experience foomar and brastaman mentioning just spraying flowers with fertilizer... why the need for STS and CS and stuff like that? Do they just induce very stressful conditions in a more controlled manner, or is it a completely different process?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 24, 2008

foomar said:
Years ago i drenched some pots with a Rotenone based insecticide and they all went hermie , even small cuttings within a week.
It is repeatable if the dose is correct , will cause damage that will recover in a week.
Do not know if it is a response to the specific chemical or to stress and root damage caused by it but it seems as reliable as silver and the seed was viable and no more hermie than the originals.

List the amounts of Rotenone used so I can try it.
Anyone else have similar experience?

-SamS

Raco · Sep 24, 2008

I have grown females that hermied slightly indoors,under HPS.I put them under natural light and they stop throwing nanners!
I also have had outdoor strains that showed nanners when grown indoors,and cuttings from those outdoor girls that hermied indoors.I couldnt find any nanner in the outdoor plants
Good thread! :yes:

Brastaman · Sep 24, 2008

bounty29 said:
Between your experience foomar and brastaman mentioning just spraying flowers with fertilizer... why the need for STS and CS and stuff like that? Do they just induce very stressful conditions in a more controlled manner, or is it a completely different process?

i don't have any experience with STS or CS so comparing is difficult. From what i understand though is that STS/CS reverses a female into a male and they grow pollen sacks.
With my experience using a combination of GH products and hormone fertilizers sometimes it would produce banana sacks and sometimes a plant would just produce seed all within the buds.
So if you wanted pollen i guess the for sure way is using STS/CS methods.

Most of the plants that produced seeds rather than pollen sacks were jamaican or thai dominant plants. OPT crosses or thai stick plants would often just produce seed.

charlie garcia · Sep 25, 2008

Some years ago I made some tests using a growth phitorregulator called Beta Nine with a lot of Meao Thais which usually gives plenty of females and just very few males... Have seen more intersexed individuals in males than in females in this line with the years

Apart for growth size controlled which was main goal of this experiment, after 2 aplications from 20 plants, 17 turned to be males. Offspring of ladies was all correct and not mutations, intersexed or strange events happened as far as I grew (although never so many to be fair). My doubt today as couldnt conclude tests was if the small number of females which were found, were in fact the most firm females and closer to be true females. I read short ago some studies done with phitoregulators and root trimming which forces plants to show males/females variants as well.

So maybe forcing most intersexed to show up as males we can pick up true females choosing plants left which werent males.. but not sure if we can trust this method 100% and more research should be done. At least you can reduce numbers when looking for true females!
best

suzycremecheese · Sep 26, 2008

sam said:
I bet a intersexed male could be as bad as an intersexed female for the genepool.

I don't have any proof of it but I would imagine that the hermie trait will pass on from males to the daughters and possibly manifest there. If hermie free cannabis is the goal I would avoid them.

sam said:
But it is a lot less damage to the rest of the crop being grown at the time.

True... if the male is in there it is in there to make seed. So it is doing no immediate damage... but does it pass the trait on to the girls and result in hermie females or just hermie sons of those females?

sam said:
I do not know if intersexed females and intersexed males are moderated by the same genes, and either sex will get them if they are present, or if they are gender specific and different for each sex and have no influence on the other sex.

Anyone else have an opinion?

Exactly what I'm thinking...

This is one of the things I've been thinking about... Seems to me that some type of experiment could be done using reversed males to get a rough idea of what is traveling with the Y chromosome.

Could intersex males be carrying the trait exclusively on the Y?

Will the trait become more intense if a male with these tendencies is reversed and then selfed since the resulting progeny are getting a double dose of Y?

These reversal techniques seem like they could yield some very useful information of exactly what is on the X and Y chromosomes, with a properly structured experiment, and the ability to carry the experiment out.

Another thought... can a YY male be reversed and yield seed? This might be important to the success of any experiment like this.

JWP · Sep 27, 2008

suzycremecheese said:
Could intersex males be carrying the trait exclusively on the Y?

Now thats a thought.

Some really great ideas coming out of IC lately :rasta:

Edit:

Raco said:
I have grown females that hermied slightly indoors,under HPS.I put them under natural light and they stop throwing nanners!
I also have had outdoor strains that showed nanners when grown indoors,and cuttings from those outdoor girls that hermied indoors.I couldnt find any nanner in the outdoor plants
Good thread!

I have just been thinking about HPS light lately. Maybe its not the HPS light rather the magnetic ballasts? Magnetic ballasts cycle at 50 times/sec. Then digital at 28,860 times/sec. Maybe the contant light from the digital could solve the problem here. I think its the flickering from the magnetic ballasts stressing the girls into throwing nannas.
I feel another experiment coming on :chin:

southwind · Sep 28, 2008

Of Note

Of Note

Raco said:
I have grown females that hermied slightly indoors,under HPS.I put them under natural light and they stop throwing nanners!
I also have had outdoor strains that showed nanners when grown indoors,and cuttings from those outdoor girls that hermied indoors.I couldnt find any nanner in the outdoor plants
Good thread!

Hello All;

This may or may not be pertinent.

I had a BOG seeds BOGGLEGUM which I named Pheno #4.

It was my best Bogglegum.

Highest yielding, highest Trichome, best smell, best smoke.

When I was in the hospital for some time with kidney disease a friend had to take care of my plants.

They do not know how to grow.

The Bogglegum #4 was stressed and produced hermaphrodite flowers.

Whenever I put it into flower under HPS [600 WATT] it would produce PERFECT MALE FLOWERS on lower parts of flower structure.

If these were cleaned off on a daily basis for about 2 weeks it would then produce NORMAL female flowers for the rest of flowering and be as good as ever.

If I did not pick off every single male flower daily[experiment] it went into a strange half fem/half male flower production which made spindly sparse quarter inch thick[buds].

When grown out in my Outdoor Test Facility it never, ever, even once produced male or hermaphrodite flowers, even under a stress test.I got rid of this female after breeding to another plant to retain its genes,

SW

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