It's all snake oil except for your base nutes and micos

macdiesel · Apr 14, 2020

Sure, you need a good A/B with micros, like floraduo, but everything else is bullshit imo, and I've tried EVERYTHING. All of remos line, KISS, everything under the sun.

Getting your environment with CO2 perfect (along with PH) trumps any bs you dump in the soil, including "bennies". It's all bullshit to make you buy more shit you don't need. That's my opinion after trying everything under the sun for over a decade. (Shwazzing and spreading is very effective too)

If you strongly disagree, what's the one nute/fert that REALLY helped your yield that I haven't mentioned?

BillFarthing · Apr 14, 2020

I always tell everyone the hydro store is a ripoff. You can grow some fire for $0.10/gallon with a visit to Custom Hydro Nutrients website.

I'm glad there's backlash against the marketing machine that puts pennies worth of product into a bottle and charges you for cartoons on the label. Water is expensive to ship too inflating the price. When I started looking into biostimulants for agriculture years ago, it's like I could see clearly for the first time and I have never looked back.

That said, I use a 4-1-5 A/B base nutrient start to finish, a little water extracted fulvic acid and chelated calcium foliar at flip. That's it!

Guest · Apr 14, 2020

I dont know if its right but I just use liquid fish fert (Neptune's Harvest) mostly and a little Epsom, liquid Calcium and EWC. Plus teas made from Guano and EWC with Molasses in addition to my base soil. Pretty basic IMO.

mexweed · Apr 14, 2020

the specialized microbes coming out of CSU are nice, I use mammoth p starting week 3 of flower and it definitely helps get things in gear

macdiesel · Apr 14, 2020

BillFarthing said:
I always tell everyone the hydro store is a ripoff. You can grow some fire for $0.10/gallon with a visit to Custom Hydro Nutrients website.

I'm glad there's backlash against the marketing machine that puts pennies worth of product into a bottle and charges you for cartoons on the label. Water is expensive to ship too inflating the price. When I started looking into biostimulants for agriculture years ago, it's like I could see clearly for the first time and I have never looked back.

That said, I use a 4-1-5 A/B base nutrient start to finish, a little water extracted fulvic acid and chelated calcium foliar at flip. That's it!

Sooooo true. Cartoons on the label is on point. Just marketing of water at ridiculous markup.

macdiesel · Apr 14, 2020

stewart169 said:
I dont know if its right but I just use liquid fish fert (Neptune's Harvest) mostly and a little Epsom, liquid Calcium and EWC. Plus teas made from Guano and EWC with Molasses in addition to my base soil. Pretty basic IMO.

You're promoting root uptake with all of that stuff. I'd like to see a side-by-side professional comparison as I've personally found the results to be negligible.

Guest · Apr 14, 2020

macdiesel said:
You're promoting root uptake with all of that stuff. I'd like to see a side-by-side professional comparison as I've personally found the results to be negligible.

I actually did a side by side of my own keeper Headbanger of a few plants. Compared Neptune's Harvest, Earth Juice and just plain water. The Neptune's Harvest was the clear winner. Earth Juice was a waste of money. Plain water did OK to a point and looked as good as the Earth Juice. In 5 gallon bags and I took pics. But to each his own.

BongFu · Apr 14, 2020

Yep totally although being able to manipulate the NPK ratio through a PK additive does have its benefits in flower.But absolutely the hydro sector has been a fantastic scam for a few gong beating snake oil pedlars. A largely non-formally educated/trained consumer with no consumer protection along with green gold fever (forever seeking the magic bullet for bigger yields). Toss in the mythical plant which then must need mythical additives etc. Hydro nute and additive manufacturers make most of their cash from flogging completely unnecessary additives so do the math...

troutman · Apr 14, 2020

I kind of laugh when I visit my local grow store. There's so many gimmicks that new growers probably get scammed into buying.
I don't have time for gimmicks like Bud Blood, Big Bud Juice,etc.

mexweed · Apr 14, 2020

build a soil kind of seems like an organic version with all the individual ingredients

dr earth, down to earth, fox farms happy frog all offer a single product that can be mixed into a base soil and bring it, but how often do you see posts about someone being confused as to what bat guano to get to mix for their veg blend etc

the point of organic is to not need as much fussing as hydro, you don't even need molasses for aerating stuff

farmerlion · Apr 15, 2020

cannabis nutes are like fishing tackle. The vast majority are designed to catch FISHERMEN. :tiphat:

If you need to flush any product from your plants?
You need to FLUSH that product. You don't rinse chemotherapy from your body.

You don't flush chemicals from plants !
Have you ever seen a chemical company post before and after use HPLC results? NO and you never will.
You are consuming poison and passing it on to others. Your spending money and getting nothing in return.

Maximize your soil by building your microbial life before you plant seedlings. Find the genetics best suited for your environment. HYPE ISN'T QUALITY!

Make environmental improvements each season. Your overall productivity will increase without buying magic elixirs.

There's no substitute for knowledge and preparation. (The Cannabis Grow Bible).
Buy one and study it cover to cover multiple times.

When you think you know everything, you stop learning anything.

Don't let pride keep you from being a good grower, person, husband and dad/mom.

When you feel that urge to supertune your grow. Do yourself and your plants a favor and walk away.

Peace farmerlion :tiphat:

topcolas · Apr 15, 2020

Aquarium/pond enzymes and bacteria way more superior and cost effective than any hydro benes products. Brewing your own tea is really good too but if you run hydro and dont wanna clog your drippers, aquarium/pond products comes in liquid and super concerntrated. you put like 60ml for 250gallon tanks. I tried every diff products out there. Great white, OG biowar, oregonism, buildasoil emzymes, fish hydrolysis, ewc, insect frass, veganic special sauce,Kelp. I notices fastest plant positive respond using aquairum/ pond products. way way cheaper than hydroponic stuff. septic enzymes work too. Some products includes PSB phosphate solublizing bacteria.

MindEater · Apr 16, 2020

The difference between boring flimsy bud with no flavor, thats stale in 3 months and caked up gooey madness that gets better every day for a year, and has too much sour flavor to consume as much as you'd desire (a real problem in my world)... snake oils..

macdiesel · Apr 16, 2020

MindEater said:
The difference between boring flimsy bud with no flavor, thats stale in 3 months and caked up gooey madness that gets better every day for a year, and has too much sour flavor to consume as much as you'd desire (a real problem in my world)... snake oils..

I can't tell from your post if you use "snake oil" or not. If so, what is it you like so much?

macdiesel · Apr 16, 2020

farmerlion said:
cannabis nutes are like fishing tackle. The vast majority are designed to catch FISHERMEN.
If you need to flush any product from your plants?
You need to FLUSH that product. You don't rinse chemotherapy from your body.

You don't flush chemicals from plants !
Have you ever seen a chemical company post before and after use HPLC results? NO and you never will.
You are consuming poison and passing it on to others. Your spending money and getting nothing in return.

Maximize your soil by building your microbial life before you plant seedlings. Find the genetics best suited for your environment. HYPE ISN'T QUALITY!

Make environmental improvements each season. Your overall productivity will increase without buying magic elixirs.

There's no substitute for knowledge and preparation. (The Cannabis Grow Bible).
Buy one and study it cover to cover multiple times.

When you think you know everything, you stop learning anything.

Don't let pride keep you from being a good grower, person, husband and dad/mom.

When you feel that urge to supertune your grow. Do yourself and your plants a favor and walk away.

Peace farmerlion

Good post. And even though I feel like I've tried about everything, I'm still here hoping to learn about something I haven't applied yet. :tiphat:

macdiesel · Apr 16, 2020

topcolas said:
Aquarium/pond enzymes and bacteria way more superior and cost effective than any hydro benes products. Brewing your own tea is really good too but if you run hydro and dont wanna clog your drippers, aquarium/pond products comes in liquid and super concerntrated. you put like 60ml for 250gallon tanks. I tried every diff products out there. Great white, OG biowar, oregonism, buildasoil emzymes, fish hydrolysis, ewc, insect frass, veganic special sauce,Kelp. I notices fastest plant positive respond using aquairum/ pond products. way way cheaper than hydroponic stuff. septic enzymes work too. Some products includes PSB phosphate solublizing bacteria.

It makes sense. They have to have a very strong, concentrated application that works, and they have huge r&D budgets to figure out the best product. I've found most hydro products are just rip-offs from other industries. Hell, even CO2 burners are just hot water heaters lol

macdiesel · Apr 16, 2020

stewart169 said:
I actually did a side by side of my own keeper Headbanger of a few plants. Compared Neptune's Harvest, Earth Juice and just plain water. The Neptune's Harvest was the clear winner. Earth Juice was a waste of money. Plain water did OK to a point and looked as good as the Earth Juice. In 5 gallon bags and I took pics. But to each his own.

Problem with side-by-sides is all parameters have to be perfect (including strain phenos, environment, light exposure, water amounts, no bugs or stress, etc) before putting results on one product. It's difficult to find conclusive evidence, and usually from my experience, results are negligible. (and not worth the added cost)

BongFu said:
Yep totally although being able to manipulate the NPK ratio through a PK additive does have its benefits in flower.But absolutely the hydro sector has been a fantastic scam for a few gong beating snake oil pedlars. A largely non-formally educated/trained consumer with no consumer protection along with green gold fever (forever seeking the magic bullet for bigger yields). Toss in the mythical plant which then must need mythical additives etc. Hydro nute and additive manufacturers make most of their cash from flogging completely unnecessary additives so do the math...

Well said!

troutman said:
I kind of laugh when I visit my local grow store. There's so many gimmicks that new growers probably get scammed into buying.
I don't have time for gimmicks like Bud Blood, Big Bud Juice,etc.

Also, there's usually people touting products as being the holy grail....but if there was such a thing, wouldn't we all have consensus?

mexweed said:
build a soil kind of seems like an organic version with all the individual ingredients

dr earth, down to earth, fox farms happy frog all offer a single product that can be mixed into a base soil and bring it, but how often do you see posts about someone being confused as to what bat guano to get to mix for their veg blend etc

the point of organic is to not need as much fussing as hydro, you don't even need molasses for aerating stuff

It's always been my understanding that all Molasses does is feed your bennies, and does nothing to the plant. (except the results of more and happier bennies which in turn promote plant uptake)

Guest · Apr 16, 2020

macdiesel said:
Problem with side-by-sides is all parameters have to be perfect (including strain phenos, environment, light exposure, water amounts, no bugs or stress, etc) before putting results on one product. It's difficult to find conclusive evidence, and usually from my experience, results are negligible. (and not worth the added cost)

Well said!

Also, there's usually people touting products as being the holy grail....but if there was such a thing, wouldn't we all have consensus?

It's always been my understanding that all Molasses does is feed your bennies, and does nothing to the plant. (except the results of more and happier bennies which in turn promote plant uptake)

Whatever. I checked off every item you listed but to each his own.

paradoxlost · Apr 17, 2020

I like your drive, but 5 gallon pots are a problem in and of themselves. Nothing under 20

oldschoolnitro · Apr 19, 2020

So I started growing Cannabis roughly around 1991, tried all sorts of different products and for the most part it's all snake oil...However with that being said not all ferts are the same, I do see a difference in how the weed burns between different Ferts...I tried the Peters products and always found they produced a very dark crusty black ash even with flushing whereas GH 3 part produces white fluffy ashes even with no flushing, of course genetics plays a role here but even on the same genetic you can see these differences in product based off the ferts used.... For this reason I stick to GH 3 part, added Calmag in Coco and little bursts of Peter's CalcNit if the plants ever need extra Nitrogen... I add nothing else as nothing else will help, it will only hinder and hurt.

It's all snake oil except for your base nutes and micos

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