ok but is depend of brand no ?
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Chelates
- Thread starter theother
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ok but is depend of brand no ?
Not sure, but I think edta is not used very efficiently (it is not broken down easily by the plant)
Not really, no.
EDTA does undero uptake in plants. This has not been well-studied, so we really don't know how much; however, from the Schwyzer paper (Influence of different chelates on the accumulation of zinc in wheat grain):
"The amounts of EDDS and EDTA found in the grain were very small. This indicates that there was little transfer of these compounds into the symplast, which would transport them away from the main water sinks (leaves) into the grain. The apoplastic pathway, which is important for the transport of chelants into the shoots, is therefore efficiently blocked for seeds."
The authors did not quantify EDTA in grain from plants provided nutrients with chelants. However, there exists a protocol for quantification of EDTA in plant tissues, modified from a paper in J. Liquid Chromatography (2005) in which EDTA in vaccines was quantified.
What this means in terms of EDTA- a persistent, ubiquitous little compound- and cannabis remains unknown. I doubt anybody has quantified EDTA in floral and vegetative mass of cannabis. That it was found in wheat berries at very low concentrations has no relevance with marijuana, other than to suggest that it is possible for plants to translocate EDTA from roots to shoots.
RoundUp works by interfering with the enzyme EPSPS (5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase). More generally, glyphosate creates a biochemical "logjam" in an enzyme the plant needs to survive.
While there are nutritional issues concerning RoundUp plants and manganese, chelation of manganese is not what kills susceptible plants. EPSPS is required to produce amino acids, so jamming that enzyme will kill susceptible plants without invoking manganese.
So how does it affect that enzyme. I ain't no genius but chelating a mineral co factor might cause a log jam. What was the original intended use for glyphosate...and I probably misspelled it but you know what I mean.
On edta...any chance that once edta drops off its cation it grabs another one out of the plant sap? I honestly got no clue...but putting stuff into a plant that is not natural to it worries me. And yea I have used it...but the more I learn the more I worry.
Do you use it AZ?
On edta...any chance that once edta drops off its cation it grabs another one out of the plant sap? I honestly got no clue...but putting stuff into a plant that is not natural to it worries me. And yea I have used it...but the more I learn the more I worry.
Do you use it AZ?
Sorry mate I don't know anything about aurora soul synthetics so no idea on that front.
Amino acids I suspect have a big future in hydroponics in general. The key difference between amino acid chelates and synthetic chelates is that the plant has an amino acid cycle. So, for instance, nitrate nitrogen is taken by the roots and then undergoes a complex series of events... That is, when nitrate nitrogen (NO3–N) is provided to plants it first needs to be uptaken and translocated from the roots of the plant through the xylem. It is then absorbed by a mesophyll cell via one of the nitrate−proton symporters into the cytoplasm and reduced to nitrite (NO2) by nitrate reductase enzyme in the cytoplasm. From here the nitrite is reduced to ammonium (NH4) by nitrite reductase enzyme in the chloroplast, which is then incorporated into amino acids by the glutamine synthetase−glutamine− 2−oxoglutarate amidotransferase enzyme system, resulting in glutamine and, ultimately, other amino acids and their metabolites. The nitrate reductase enzyme activity is the limiting step of NO3 N conversion to amino acid synthesis (Campbell, 1999). In most plant species only a proportion of the absorbed nitrate is assimilated in the root, the remainder being transported upwards through the xylem for assimilation in the shoot where it is reduced and incorporated into amino acids (Forde, 2000).
Even though plants have the inherent capacity to biosynthesize all of the amino acids that they require from nitrogen, carbon oxygen and hydrogen, the biochemical process is quite complex and energy consuming. Put simply, where amino acids and proteins are concerned, 20 amino acids must be synthesized by the plant in order for protein synthesis to occur. However, a challenge lies in the fact that proteins have a finite life span and must be constantly translated from m-RNA (which carries genetic information from DNA) in order for plant growth and development to continue. This means that there must be a ready supply of all 20 amino acids for protein synthesis and ultimately plant growth and development to occur. Therefore, the exogenous application of amino acids through addition to the nutrient, or applied via foliar spray, can aid the plant to save energy on this process. This energy can then be dedicated to better plant development during critical stages of growth.
To understand this energy saving process, nitrogen (N) containing amino acids such as glycine (C2H5NO2), alanine (CH₃CHCOOH), arginine (C6H14N4O2), tryptophan (C11H12N2O2), proline (C5H9NO2), histidine (C6H9N3O2) and lysine (C6H14N2O2) are shown to be uptaken and assimilated by some plants in large quantities. Some studies have indicated that where inorganic forms of nitrogen (e.g. nitrate nitrogen - NO3) and amino acids are present in soils and solutions plants uptake more N through amino acids than through inorganic sources of nitrogen. As a result, while the research is variable, some authors have suggested that plants possibly prefer organic amino acids as a source of nitrogen above inorganic forms of nitrogen.
So basically, amino acid chelates are able to directly enter the plant with the metal ion and transport it (put simply). As AZclones has rightfully pointed out research has now shown that the synthetic chelates are able to be uptaken and translocated by the plant - although there is some uncertainty as to what percentage of the synthetic chelates are uptaken. This said they do not transport the metal ion in the way amino acids do. BTW - EDTA etc is quite toxic so the fact that it is being uptaken isn't a good thing.
Re fulvic acid - yes I have used it for years in solution although that one is complex in that I grow in organic media (coco) and use bios (trichoderma and bacillus spp). Fulvic not only chelates and complexes but also provides a source of carbon for the bios (carbon is a key bio food so this provides a food source to the bennies which in turn ensures a high biomass). Certainly though a bit of extra chelation and complexing in solution can never hurt and can only aid nutrient availability particularly where conditions are less than optimal. So for example phosphorus has a pretty narrow optimal pH zone so by complexing it you improve the nutrient status. Hope that explains things a bit more for you...
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Yep - welcome to the the latest fiasco in a long line of regulatory fiascos. Round Up is likely causing Parkingsons and cancer. For years Monsanto has been telling people it is safe and environmentally friendly
No
Why are you talking about round up in a chelate thread?
Round up isn't a chelator. Apparently those who die of Parkingsons and cancer after being nuked by Round Up are rising from the deadIt has disappeared off the internet but don huber made the claim.
Should I be wearing a tin hat...possibly. but alex jones hasn't disappeared and this did. I take comfort in the fact einstein often asked is it them, or me that is crazy. I ain't no einstein but I still take comfort.
I think glyphosate chelates mn and zn...shit kind of important to reproduction. And if I wanted to sell a lot of seed...maybe that would work
Parkinson I don't know...then again who knows exactly how micros and ultra traces actually effect us.
I do know you can see obvious deficiency symptoms in the mid west while still measuring good levels in tissue analysis. I would be curious how monsanto explains that
A living calcium hydoxy apatite has a zn-mn backbone is my understanding. Kill the backbone and the crystal no longer lives...but still grows given the elements it needs until it reaches the point where its charge can no longer hold it together.
Anyways...the chance does exist I am insane.
Should I be wearing a tin hat...possibly. but alex jones hasn't disappeared and this did. I take comfort in the fact einstein often asked is it them, or me that is crazy. I ain't no einstein but I still take comfort.
I think glyphosate chelates mn and zn...shit kind of important to reproduction. And if I wanted to sell a lot of seed...maybe that would work
Parkinson I don't know...then again who knows exactly how micros and ultra traces actually effect us.
I do know you can see obvious deficiency symptoms in the mid west while still measuring good levels in tissue analysis. I would be curious how monsanto explains that
A living calcium hydoxy apatite has a zn-mn backbone is my understanding. Kill the backbone and the crystal no longer lives...but still grows given the elements it needs until it reaches the point where its charge can no longer hold it together.
Anyways...the chance does exist I am insane.
In fact, while I remain under the influence of multiple pure sativa dabs and have nofilter and perhaps no common sense I challenge you to do that experiment. Prove me wrong.
And if the cosmos happens to align and I am not insane then ask yourself this. How different is edta from round up. Matter of degrees mate...one is just a slightly better chelation agent.
And that is why I brought it up.
If you prove me wrong I will apologize...fortunately it won't be the first time.
And if the cosmos happens to align and I am not insane then ask yourself this. How different is edta from round up. Matter of degrees mate...one is just a slightly better chelation agent.
And that is why I brought it up.
If you prove me wrong I will apologize...fortunately it won't be the first time.
Yep I aren't going to buy into the ignorant organic mung head trolling mate but to answer your question (p.s. I don't need to ask one of my scientist friends re Round Up).
Of the more than two-dozen top herbicides on the market today, glyphosate is the most popular. In 2007, as much as 185 million pounds of glyphosate was used by U.S. farmers, double the amount used six years before.
However, a new research report by Anthony Samsel, a retired science consultant, and Dr. Stephanie Seneff, a research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (2013) came to some very disturbing conclusions about the weed killer Roundup and its active ingredient glyphosphate.
Monsanto has steadfastly claimed that Roundup is harmless to animals and humans because the mechanism of action it uses (which allows it to kill weeds), called the shikimate pathway, is absent in all animals. However, the shikimate pathway is present in bacteria, and that’s the key to understanding how it causes such widespread systemic harm in both humans and animals.
The bacteria in our bodies outnumber our cells by 10 to 1. For every cell in our body, we have 10 microbes of various kinds, and all of them have the shikimate pathway, so they will all respond is some form, at some level to the presence of glyphosate.
Glyphosate causes extreme disruption of the microbe’s function and lifecycle. What’s worse is glyphosate preferentially affects beneficial bacteria, allowing pathogens to overgrow and take over. At that point, your body also has to contend with the toxins produced by the pathogens.
The research reveals that glyphosate inhibits cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes, a large and diverse group of enzymes that catalyze the oxidation of organic substances. This, the authors argue, is “an overlooked component of its toxicity to mammals.” One of the functions of CYP enzymes is to detoxify xenobiotics — chemical compounds found in a living organism that are not normally produced or consumed by the organism in question. By limiting the ability of these enzymes to detoxify foreign chemical compounds, glyphosate enhances the damaging effects of chemicals and environmental toxins that you may be exposed to.
Although more research is needed, it now looks as if glyphosate could be potentially linked to a range of health problems and diseases, including Parkinson's, infertility and cancers.
Now be a good boy and stay on topic (i.e. chelates) and stop wanking on about Round Up which is not a chelator that is used in hydroponics... nor is round up used anywhere in hydroponics because it is a herbicide. They don't need herbicides in hydroponics because plants are not grown in soils and therefore no weeds
First of all I am not organic on any of my grows. That is not my point at all. I have zero problem with anyone's choice of how to grow
My question remains...how does it inhibit that enzyme pathway. Proving it is not a chelation thing should be simple for a man of your qualifications.
I did the experiment. Not peer reviewed, possibly flawed...but made me wonder. How can you not be curious?
Would it not be better to find out? You can use aminos or fulvic/humic and still be hydro. I would not argue with that choice at all. But at least explore the choices you make
My question remains...how does it inhibit that enzyme pathway. Proving it is not a chelation thing should be simple for a man of your qualifications.
I did the experiment. Not peer reviewed, possibly flawed...but made me wonder. How can you not be curious?
Would it not be better to find out? You can use aminos or fulvic/humic and still be hydro. I would not argue with that choice at all. But at least explore the choices you make
