Help identify " Black Death " in Hawaii

JOJO420 · Mar 18, 2016

Aloha everyone

We are dealing with horrible issues we nicknamed "black death" here in Hawaii. It affects both clones and seedlings. Let me describe.
The "black death" is easily identified in growing tips on any plant affected. The new growing tip is twisted, sometimes mutated, hooked leaves that have turned a dirty black/purple. Growth will be stunted and leaves start to grow bizarre serrations, bumps and strange looking mutations in veg.
Once one plant has it your whole garden will get, some faster than others, all stages, all sizes.

When these plants are put into flower they hardly stretch , have no real smell and no frost or pistils. The stretch growth is sometimes what I have heard called witches broom.Sometimes they grow all candelabra style..

Buds grow leafy,small and stunted with the black/purple tips becoming distorted and mutated. Yield is pathetic..

The plant is utterly worthless and ends up dying if I dont kill it first. I have duds like I have never seen before.

Screams broad mites or russets to me right?

Except.....
NO kind of spray I have used has completely stopped it yet. I can cut plants back to smallest lowest node, change soil and reveg and it comes back without fail.
If Hawaii had a lab to send samples , it be da first thing I do, no such luck yet in paradise.

I have tried both chemical and organic methods.

Here is a list of what does not work so far.

Avid
Azamax
Actinovate
BT
Neem
Organocide
Saf T cide
Triazicide
Spinosad
Nuke Em
Natural Mystic
35% pyrethrum
Im an outdoor/ greenhouse guy in Promix BX.

We have tried everything listed and suggested, no sucess.

I got tons of pics from newly rooted clone to about 4-5 weeks flower that I cannot load from my phone, so that will have to wait.

Last thing, I have read most of the broad, russet and cyclamen threads, same goes for root aphids and stem nematodes and I have never personally seen anything like this yet.....

I know it is hard with no pics yet, however anyone got any ideas off da top ya head ?

Robrites · Mar 18, 2016

First, get a scope and verify that you have pests.

meadowman · Mar 18, 2016

look into verticillium wilt....just a guess from your description.

Granger2 · Mar 18, 2016

Yeah "sounds" like a fungal problem. You could try mixing organic cornmeal and water. Soak overnight. Strain off cornmeal, spray plants and water them with it.

Texas A&M noticed in their field trials that peanuts grown on fields that previous crop had been corn, that they didn't have fungal problems on the peanuts. More testing and they now recommend applying cornmeal on lawns for Take-all Patch and Brown Patch. This is their 1st choice fungicide that they recommend over chem fungicides. People use it successfully for treating Toenail Fungus. Cheap solution, worth a try. Good luck. -granger

MileHighGlass · Mar 18, 2016

Looks like you have tried many different pest remedies, but I agree that it seems like a fungal issue.

A way to think about fungal problems is that the surface of a leaf ismade up of a bunch of tiny cups. You can either fill them with good stuff, or bad stuff is going to fill the cups.

Using a high quality compost tea weekly(foliar sprayed) is a way to fill those cups up.

When you are already under attack sometimes you need to try something else. In the past I have used OG Biowar foliar to basically fungal the shit out of the leaf surface. I have applied it very heavy, and it has stopped any issues that arose.

I am sure you can get a comparable product. If not, they do ship.

I personally use a neem essential oil blend once weekly, along with a compost tea once weekly. It seems to do the trick.

Just remember that no matter the problem you can and will find a solution. Once you do, you will be an even smarter farmer.

Granger2 · Mar 19, 2016

Mile's suggestions are good. I like ACT and OGBioWar. I'd try them too. Maybe alternate. Good luck. -granger

Manastasis · Mar 19, 2016

Og biowar is no longer sold on the big island to my knowledge. Bummer cause i sure liked it. Anyhowz i have witnessed this black death (i call the no bud disease). Like jojo say the growing tips turn purple and distorted. It looks like broad mite, root aphid, and tmv damage all wrapped together. Massive nutrient and ph related looking issues, brittle tissue, plant likely to dudd. I saw it pop up a couple years back in a friends garden where i was staying. He tried all kine stuffs to fix. All to no avail. Some recovered slightly but dudded out in the end.

Timm · Mar 20, 2016

Post some pics of the damage. That will help us determine whether it is broad mites or not

JOJO420 · Mar 21, 2016

Pics of " Black Death "

Pics of " Black Death "

Pics of "Black Death " in seedlings

JOJO420 · Mar 21, 2016

Pics of " Black Death "

Pics of " Black Death "

This is early stage in veg.

JOJO420 · Mar 21, 2016

Flower pics

Flower pics

This is infected flowers at 2-3 weeks. No stretch except into witches broom like mess . There is frost yet no real loud smell.
The buds stump into twists of leaves that purple.

JOJO420 · Mar 21, 2016

So its purple/black starting at the tips working down. Then the stems purple under the fucked up jagged purple tips.Working its way down the plant new growth to old growth.
Anyone seen this?

MileHighGlass · Mar 21, 2016

Most definitely looks fungal. I don't have a lot of personal experience with fungal issues in cannabis. I haven't even ever had PM. However in my standard vegetable garden I have had some issues.

Have you cutoff the infected part of the plants? What happens?

Neem can usually help with slowing down fungal issues, but as you have used it in the past it seems to me once the plant is infected a surface application is not doing anything.

Some fungal infections that you get in standard agriculture have no fix. You cut out the infection, or remove the plant.

You have to try to figure out what you have so that you can possibly fix it. I would go to a local nursery with a clipping of an infected plant. I bet they can tell you in about 10 seconds, as they will know all of the local fungal infections in most any plant.

To go one better, you can go to a local universities ag department if need be.

I think the thing that cannabis growers forget is that standard agriculture has been dealing with these things for hundreds of years. What we may beat ourselves up over trying to figure out, is a quick fix to them. Sometimes

Good luck

Weird · Mar 21, 2016

Mycostop

Dog Star · Mar 21, 2016

Somehow i think its Fukushima related,

you there are highly affected by Fukushima plume and radionuclides poluted most
of your soil,water,etc..

Black fungus like stuff is a thing they found much in Japan in lot of areas,
mutated growth is symphtom also could be from radiation..,maybe to look for guilty
on those that happends before...

Lately i read there is a lot of die offs around Hawaii,whales died,there is no so much fish
like before 5 years....

Did you tryed Horstail tea to wash your plants??

If Horstail dont move this than you can serious think about what i write in first part of reply... radiation can travel very far away..

Manastasis · Mar 21, 2016

Whats going on in the rootzone /lower part of meristem? Possible immobile nutrient blockage due to a pathogen attacking the rootball?

JOJO420 · Mar 21, 2016

Thanks for the replies everyone. I hope to identify this soon. Being Hawaii its gonna take a bit longer, island time if you will.

As to the suggestion of taking to AG dept, we did that. Walked in there with current valid med script and was rejected. Told they take federal $$ and can not help me in fear of losing funding.
Guy steps out in hallway and mentions its either thrips or mites was his first guess.

As to taking it in to a nursery, that might or might not work. These old japanese guys that run these nurseries around here might not take too kindly with me bringing MMJ on to the property.
Im gonna think that on over a bit however, might try it.

I really wanna send samples to a lab. Any one know a good one that will take out of state samples?

kalopatchkid · Mar 22, 2016

I am on the big island and I have experienced this as well. At first I thought it was a fungal pathogen, as it first appeared when I used some Mac Nut Compost in my soil mixes. I would have branches wilt and the inside of the stems would be gray/black. I have been able to slow down the funky stem problem by painting areas with a homemade mixture of sulfur dust and non-toxic acrylic paint.

The new growth will have purple blotches and grows out mutated just like your pictures, almost like a bug has been chewing the developing leaves. I have looked at the new growth pretty carefully with a microscope and did see 1 or 2 critters which could have possibly been broads, but they were in such low numbers (just 1 or 2) that I didnt think they were responsible.

I inherited some clones a few months ago from the kona side and one of them came with the purple new growth symptoms but I was able to make it go away. These plants also came from a garden that had russet mites at the time, but they are not the same insect that I observed in my garden prior to bringing them home.

I'm kind of leaning towards it being a virus spread by insect. Surprised the AG department rejected it but at the same time im not surprised. They usually wait until its way too late before they start acting on any new threat.

kalopatchkid · Mar 22, 2016

I've been digging around a little this morning on the web. Did a search for "witches broom"
and it brought up phytoplasmas which are vectored by insects.

Do you by any chance have banana plants with bunchy top virus in the area? The virus is transmitted by aphids, and I wonder if it can affect other types of plants. I have a few banana trees in my yard with bunchy top and I noticed nearby Ti leaves have a similar growth pattern to the infected bananas that is not really typical of Ti Leaves.

If you are growing in promix, i doubt it is a fungal issue unless you are adding worm castings or compost from a suspect source. I have a strong suspicion it is insect transmitted virus or phytoplasma. If you google image search for phytoplasma symptoms, you will find examples of purple new growth, witches broom growth, etc.

SurfdOut · Mar 23, 2016

Hi Guys,
Yep, we were talking about this not too long ago. I have had it a few times with the first being a couple years ago. We seem to be able to get our plants to grow out of them and the purple disappears but leaves the leaves with a blistered look. I just cloned abunch of plants without a dome and the one cutting that had it didnt spread to all the others, my buddy just did abunch of cuts with a dome and the purple moved to them all. This is rare for us to get but we all just took in clones from the same guy so we all got it right now.

I spray an aggressive and consistent but various organic foilar regime, so not sure what may take it out. The very first time i noticed it was in my greenhouse on a seed plant that was the only plant in the gh at the time. I was vegging a NHz x NL5 up and started to experiment with foilar milk application rates. After I had sprayed the plant with very strong dilution rate of 1:1 for a few days in a row, I noticed a light white fungus over the entire plant that was joined by the purpling in the entire plants new growth. I had to trash that plant shortly there after. After that i have only seen it on one or two other seed plants but isolated to one branch but has always gone away rather than spread. Happens summer or winter.

Kalo, you get your plants to pull out yet?

Help identify " Black Death " in Hawaii

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