Need some assistance in using my Fluence Spydrx 2 to its full potential

THC123 · Feb 15, 2020

Hi guys,

I just recently started growing indoors again. Now I am used to growing outdoors or greenhouses or HPS. I also did one LED grow prior to my current one with Viparspectra.

I had 4 V600 lamps in a 5 x 5 tent to get good coverage (those lights suck ass). But with the Viparspectra, it was a lot like growing with HPS. They even produced quite a bit of heat with 4 lamps.

But back to the subject

, I am now using a Fluence Spydrx 2 345 Watts for the first time.

I am currently doing a testrun of the A5 and I kinda fucked up the start. Since I did not have any experience with them I just followed the instructions stating 6-12 inch distance from the canopy.

I started with 12 inch. The seedlings were growing a lot slower than I was used to under the sun or HPS or those Viparspectras.

Then I made a noob mistake, I thought: well I started seedlings in the summer sun without problems before, this is just a LED, it runs so cool, lets go to 6 inches.

Temps were fine but I did not take into account the high PPFD at that distance and the fact that artificial light is a lot different than the sun. The plants were really growing slow and were droopy all the time. Also they are in 5 gallon but they look like they are in a 1/4 gallon container....

Then Karma gave me the advice to put the lamps higher(about50 cm) and they are already looking better.

At that point I was googling and I found a High PPFD cultivation chart from Fluencehttps://fluence.science/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/High-PPFD-Cultivation-Guide-9.27.16.pdf

So since seedlings need 150-250 micromol, I should have started the grow at at least 30 inch. Ooops

But my actual questions (I have several) are:

- At what distance do you guys with actual experience start seedlings and clones under the SPydrx 2? What works best for you to get a fast growth comparable to HPS or the Sun? I know these are good lights, it's me that is the problem here lol so please enlighten me.

- At a certain moment, do you just keep the lamps at a certain distance and let the plants grow towards them to get more ppfd slowly or do you lower the lamps constantly?

- I have noticed that the coverage is just a little short for my 5 x 5 tent. The corners and sides have noticable less light. Would it make sense to buy full spectrum LED strips and install them on the sides and corners of the tent to get a higher ppfd in those area's?

Cantharellus · Feb 15, 2020

If you have small plants in 5 gallon containers that is most likely your problem not the light. Just my opinion. Droopy and slow growing are the classic symptoms of that.

THC123 · Feb 16, 2020

I have planted small plants direct in the soil outdoors and indoors in 5 gallon pots before, my experience is that if you water them right they actually grow faster in a big pot with much bigger leaves.

Does anyone have experience with the fluence spydrx 2 here?

I'mback · Feb 16, 2020

Man I hate it when data is all over the map. I don't have a "spider" perse but PPFD is PPFD AFAIC.

I don't use inches nor cm. I use PPFD. Lights are raised or lowered dependent on the following measurements:

cuttings/seedlings ~ 60-90 umol;
clones ~ 100-200 umol;
Veg ~ 300-425 umol; and
Bloom ~ 700-1200 umol.

That being said I keep the canopy at 850-900 during bloom. Over 1000 umol we need to generate CO2, which I have in the past but no longer use. I don't have a sealed environment. I hope this helps. :tiphat:

From what I have gathered through research, yes we can plant our beans in the ground, because that is what mother nature calls for, she drops her load in the fall to sprout sometime in spring.

However, growing indoors is not outdoors and potting up is highly recommended. Yes, it can be a pain, especially using cloth pots but... I forgo peat pellets as I have had issues with them in the past and simply start them out in a 4" square pot, re-potting to a 3gal (1" shy on both diameter and height from a 5gal pot) after 3 weeks, they are ready for potting up, in my environment. YMMV!

THC123 said:
- At a certain moment, do you just keep the lamps at a certain distance and let the plants grow towards them to get more ppfd slowly or do you lower the lamps constantly?

If set at the proper distance to start with, you only need to raise your light. It is not uncommon to raise your light a couple of clicks a day, once she takes off and up to 5 clicks during stretch.

- I have noticed that the coverage is just a little short for my 5 x 5 tent. The corners and sides have noticable less light. Would it make sense to buy full spectrum LED strips and install them on the sides and corners of the tent to get a higher ppfd in those area's?

This is where tent management comes in, if you have "free standing pots" not constrained by SCROG. I rotate my plants 90 degrees day and crisscross them every watering. It has worked for me. If growing more than one strain, and one strain is slower than the other, and not stretching as much as the other, I place the pots on a pedestal. Works like a charm. I hope this helps.

Mars Hydro Led · Feb 17, 2020

Generally, the seedling distance is more than 30 inches. Veg is around 24 inches and flower is around 18 inches. But you need to adjust it according to the plants situation. My personal opinion.

NEW ENGLAND · Mar 23, 2020

I keep my 4 foot 8 bulb T5's for seedlings , have always had good success with fluorescent to get things going.

To much of a pain in the ass to start seedlings under LED's. At least for me.

THC123 · Apr 22, 2020

Generally, the seedling distance is more than 30 inches. Veg is around 24 inches and flower is around 18 inches. But you need to adjust it according to the plants situation. My personal opinion.

Yeah I think you are right. Followed their advice in the beginning, but no matter what plant I put under them they bleached and suffered, even with the dimmer when using recommended height.

I then put the lights higher but they kept bleaching.

I pulled my a5 out of the tent because I just couldn't take it anymore...

Afterwards did a few tests with other plants, some 8 month old established mother and some younger ones.

Only when I put the lamp at the highes I could (almost on the ceiling) did the bleaching stop.

I could even turn up the dimmer and increase PPFD to 250-300 and they didn't bleach. I did not go higher in PPFD because they were still not healthy, even though there is no bleaching. At that point I also removed those plants from the tent.

I don't have the time now to keep fucking around As I have been trying to get my plants healthy under the SPydrx 2 since January. ENough time lost!!!

I don't get it, the LED's maximum output is only 500+- PPFD, that is not so much. I tried everything. The same plants thrive with a higher PPFD under the metal halide, Sun and the Viparspectra. But under the Fluence nothing but depressed plants.

After few days in the tent during the tests, they just lost their shine and green color. Leaves droop like they got overwatering etc....They get a strange blueish dark green color, it is like I fed them too much N (plants in test only got water...) and new growth is small.

Somewhere this week I will start a new thread here and or in the infirmary. I have taken many pictures, including clones from the same plant under different lights so everyone will be very clearly able to see what I mean.

Today I hung my old Viparspectra V600 in the tent and removed the Fluence Spydrx 2. It's a real shame!!! The lamp was expensive.

Furthermore, to get good coverage I will need to install 4 viparspectra's as their coverage is just awful (but they do grow very healthy plants).

SO I paid 950 euros for a lamp I won't use for a while AND now instead of consuming 330 watts for lights i have to consume 1000+ watts (they are 256 Watt a piece times 4). Plus I have to buy new LED for my second grow as the clones are ready to be flowered now.

They are also not really suitable for this period, as 4 of these lamps produce a LOT of heat. Will have to amp up the ventilation.

It's the first time in my life that I am not able to make plants happy and I can't figure out WTF is going on, very frustrating. SO the fluence can go sit on the bench... I will fuck around with that light during my next seedgrow, but now I need smelly sticky buds!!!!! The hazes should have been flowering by now....

PetFlora · Apr 22, 2020

THC123 said:
Yeah I think you are right. Followed their advice in the beginning, but no matter what plant I put under them they bleached and suffered, even with the dimmer when using recommended height.

I then put the lights higher but they kept bleaching.

I pulled my a5 out of the tent because I just couldn't take it anymore...

Afterwards did a few tests with other plants, some 8 month old established mother and some younger ones.

Only when I put the lamp at the highes I could (almost on the ceiling) did the bleaching stop.

I could even turn up the dimmer and increase PPFD to 250-300 and they didn't bleach. I did not go higher in PPFD because they were still not healthy, even though there is no bleaching. At that point I also removed those plants from the tent.

I don't have the time now to keep fucking around As I have been trying to get my plants healthy under the SPydrx 2 since January. ENough time lost!!!

I don't get it, the LED's maximum output is only 500+- PPFD, that is not so much. I tried everything. The same plants thrive with a higher PPFD under the metal halide, Sun and the Viparspectra. But under the Fluence nothing but depressed plants.

After few days in the tent during the tests, they just lost their shine and green color. Leaves droop like they got overwatering etc....They get a strange blueish dark green color, it is like I fed them too much N (plants in test only got water...) and new growth is small.

Somewhere this week I will start a new thread here and or in the infirmary. I have taken many pictures, including clones from the same plant under different lights so everyone will be very clearly able to see what I mean.

Today I hung my old Viparspectra V600 in the tent and removed the Fluence Spydrx 2. It's a real shame!!! The lamp was expensive.

Furthermore, to get good coverage I will need to install 4 viparspectra's as their coverage is just awful (but they do grow very healthy plants).

SO I paid 950 euros for a lamp I won't use for a while AND now instead of consuming 330 watts for lights i have to consume 1000+ watts (they are 256 Watt a piece times 4). Plus I have to buy new LED for my second grow as the clones are ready to be flowered now.

They are also not really suitable for this period, as 4 of these lamps produce a LOT of heat. Will have to amp up the ventilation.

It's the first time in my life that I am not able to make plants happy and I can't figure out WTF is going on, very frustrating. SO the fluence can go sit on the bench... I will fuck around with that light during my next seedgrow, but now I need smelly sticky buds!!!!! The hazes should have been flowering by now....

WOW, your situation isn't normal at all. have you contacted Fluence for their input?

PetFlora · Apr 22, 2020

NEW ENGLAND said:
I keep my 4 foot 8 bulb T5's for seedlings , have always had good success with fluorescent to get things going.

To much of a pain in the ass to start seedlings under LED's. At least for me.

One of the things I like with Amare COB series is that the CoB is surrounded by a ring of r/b monos ~ 1/4 the wattage. SO I start seedlings/clones under them. Then, once properly rooted I flip the COB on too

I have an original SPYDR 600 from when Nick was BML. Each bar has a separate power plug. Simply decouple 75% of them for veg. BUt you should check with Fluence if yours has the same capability

hth

PurplePotion · Apr 22, 2020

Tried increasing temps and Rh? I’ve found plants under LEDs prefer warmer temps. They also want more cal-mag typically. Sounds like they aren’t transpiring and the root system is uber small for such a large pot (pot size would be ok if they were eating, drinking and growing as normal).

THC123 · Apr 23, 2020

I will contact Fluence ! I already contacted them 2 months ago and they advised the dimmer which I got. But yeah I'll contact them again, I mean par is par !!!

@PP
Yeah man I increased room temps to raise LST and I increased RH as well but nothing. I used heating mats, heating tubes umidifiers towels CO2 to seal the tent to getthe right values, nothing helped.

They were healthy with 50 micromol and if I increased it BAM

And with the larger distance to canopy, (120 cm) no bleaching at 200 -250 micromoles but weird plant unhappy more blue thatn green, droopy

THC123 · Apr 29, 2020

Some side y side pics

White og left 72 hours in fluence tent, right viparspectra

White jones x gg before going in the fluence tent

White jones x gg in fluence tent

And there ya go, totally blue leaves, droopy leaves no more shine, stunted new growth and light bleaching (at not even 200 micromoles they had 250 under the vipar). The plant only got water no nutes.

THC123 · Apr 29, 2020

Update part 2

On the left a white og clone from under the vipar an on the right it's motherplant that had been under the fluence(in this pic it shines again because it had been outdoors for a few days.

.

And here the latest side by side, 2 happy brother x guerilla gold moms identical clones), I chose the biggest healthiest one to go under the fluence

The one that is dark green had been under the fluence for 72 hours.

This time I was able to avoid any light bleaching by simply not following the recommendations by fluence and instead using them as a quantum board, so light about 80-100 cm from the plant. It got 250 micromoles.

SO by increasing distance to canopy and turning up the dimmer I was able to avoid the bleaching.

BUT, I mean just look, like WTF. Again almost blue color, droopy leaves and small new growth.

I have now contacted fluence and sent them tons of pics from the side by sides with par values, temp RH and CO2.

I also asked them if I could return the lamp so that they may have a look at it.

Hopefully they will be able to help me. If not then I have wasted a ton of money and I will sell the lamp.

Broggemann · Apr 29, 2020

Hey,

I have/had very similar problems under Samsung LM301B stripes.
Actually I battled the symptoms for weeks and since a couple of days it's finally getting better.
In my case, plants vegged beautifully under a small quantum board and when I placed them under the stripes, things got bad pretty fast.

You are growing in soil? Do you know which ppm of calcium and magnesium you're rougly feeding?

I'm in coco and my problems went away as soon as I lowered my PPFD (what you already did), increased my mg to ~85ppm and calcium to ~160ppm.

THC123 · Apr 29, 2020

I am growing organically(solids) and I have no way of measuring these ppms. They have a healthy dose of calmag in the organic tabs and I amend with rockdust as well (which also contains calmag)

Also ordered a calmag spray to treat the plants one per week. But that is for under my viparspectra as there they do get calmag defiencies.

But here the problem is something else, I think the spectrum (and before I thought ppfd).

But thanks for your input!!!!!

baconman1945 · May 5, 2020

Hey, THC123, I'm having crazy amounts of chlorophyll bleaching of my flowers under Advanced LED XML 350s. Spent a similar amount on them, got a decent discount and also had them for a while, but I'm still frustrated.

It seems that modern, western indicas and indica hybrids are better able to handle these lights than the tropical and IBL sativas that I've been growing the last several months. I have a Bangi Haze that's 18 days since flower photoperiod, and she's shown signs of chlorohpyll bleaching since flowers first began to form. Her light is 35" over her tops. Her mom got super bleached out last cycle too. My Zamaldelica had a bleached tip on one flower but no others, and the lights got around 20"-24", probably closer to some of the flowers. My Purple Haze x Malawi is getting super bleached out, even on shorter tops 30"+ from her light.

For me, I experienced zero bleaching or abnormalities during veg, but during flower, bleaching on most or all flowers. Turning the light intensity down at the dials (one for white and one for red spectrum), and still bleaching.

It's a shame, but I don't know what else to do except accept it or get a new light. I've had my lights for a few years and only experienced bleaching on flowers once before, on a hybrid, when the light got closer than 18" to the flowers. Raising the lights stopped the bleaching, but it never recovered. I've been increasing magnesium via epsom salts and also watering with coconut water more frequently. We'll see if that effects positive changes or helps halt negative ones.

Anyways, I clicked on your post because of the title -I've heard great things about Fluence, and I was considering them as an alternative. If their lights produce similar issues, maybe QB is the way to go since I haven't heard of QBs producing this issue. Have you? Perhaps I should swap one out for a HLG 300L RSPEC to see how it goes? A vendor nearby can order it at a 10% discount...

I wonder if this is an issue for most high output blurple colored lights?

Bangi Haze 2019

Purple Haze x Malawi

These two are from 4/19/20. Couldn't bear to post the worst-bleached top.

Zamaldelica

THC123 · May 5, 2020

Nice plants, shame about the bleaching, but still they look way better than my plants looked under the fluence.

I got a quantum board just waiting for my tent. I have now installed it in the motherroom. So in 2 or 3 days I will be able to tell if the lamp causes issues. Went to look yesterday after 24 hrs and they looked super happy, like outdoor plants.

We'll see.

I hope Fluence answers my mails, been a week already, but lets be patient

If the sf4000 doesnt cause bleaching it will be a far better light for me than the fluence for my climate, it produces quite bit of heat, like 10- 20 times as much as the fluence, but not like an hps. The Fluence runs too cool, which in fall, winter and early spring will cost me a lot on heating thus not saving any electricity with LEDS actually, spending more on electricity

. The Fluence would be great in summer or warm areas.

THC123 · May 12, 2020

Hi xxx

I spoke internally with some cultivation experts and they indicate that what you are describing sounds like it could be a PH issue.

"The one critical number I don’t see mentioned here is pH at the rootzone. He’ll have to adjust pH of pure water (no nutes) down to 6 or so, maybe 6.5 but no higher. Then water the plant with it, and take the pH of the runoff that fills up the tray. If it stays at 6 or 6.5 (whatever it was before) then he’s good. If it goes up, that would imply his rootzone pH is over 6.5. This could also be consistent with the plants doing better outside. A single good rain can bring that pH right down to a happy spot (rain is acidic)."

Let me know if this helps or not, or any other questions you may have.

This is the reply I got. I will test this but I really doubt that this is the problem.

This was my reply and now I will buy a ph meter and give them the info and I will wait, I wonder what their answer to my question is.

Hi xxx

Thank you for your reply!

I have measured the PH of the soil with a pen meter and it is about 6.2-6.5. I will buy another PH meter so I can measure runoff PH because that pen meter is not the best tool.

The plants only get rainwater, that goes for the greenhouse and indoors. Tap water PH is too alkaline here.

BUT that being said, this doesn't explain why the plants go better under a cheap Chinese LED and the SF4000 which I recently aqcuired. I even started seedlings under it and no issues.
Here is a picture of the plants that suffered under the Fluence spydrx. They have now been under the Viparspectra V600 lamps for 2 weeks and they look normal, have a look, these are the same weak plants you saw before but now under another LED

-->

-->

The only variable was the light source, everything stayed the same. If PH was the issue, then why are these plants thriving under a different spectrum? That for me is not logical? Plus I have been using this soil and water (rainwater) for 20+ years) I never use tapwater. Could you ask the experts why they thrive under another(cheap) LED with another spectrum and why they thrive under the SF4000 LED at full power (even small seedings)?? Seems to me it has to do with the spectrum if that is the only variable? But I realize I am no LED expert so I am not going to pretend I know everything.

I will collect the data your experts require, maybe under the fluence things are different? But it would be nice to have an answer to the question above. Reason being is that I like logic and I feel the need to get a logical understanding of the problem.

In any case thanks for getting back at me and have a good day!!!

Grapefruitroop · May 12, 2020

baconman1945 said:
It seems that modern, western indicas and indica hybrids are better able to handle these lights than the tropical and IBL sativas that I've been growing the last several months.

I totally agree with that! I experienced the same with Very bright lights like Spectrum King sk602...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am growing organically(solids) and I have no way of measuring these ppms. They have a healthy dose of calmag in the organic tabs and I amend with rockdust as well (which also contains calmag)
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I think that thats could be part of the problem too...in the sense that with high demandig lights like that you really need a way (TDS pen) to understand how much of a nutrient you are delivering otherwise you are shootin in the dark...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I struggled a lot with organic recipes and bright LEDs...until i start to dial the situation in ppm....problems solved[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ive seen beautiful organics flowers under LED too but i think you gotta know very good your strain + environment and def be a guru! haha
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Plants under those lights ask constantly for generous amount of N Ca Mg ....like maniacs compared to the outdoor ones
[/FONT]

THC123 · May 12, 2020

Yeah but thats really not the problem. They are also going perfectly under the SF4000 which has a higher ppfd output compared to my fluence.

They get more than enough N and ca mg. They have lime in there, organic NPK pellets, lots of worm castings + rockdust(which also contains calmag and is very slow release in cooperation with the microlife inthe castings), they get alfalfa + kelp and I have a calmag spray (epsom salts) as well should they need it.

Here you can a few pics of the a5 plants under another LED, nothing changed, just the light and they are getting 10 times as much ppfd as under the fluence now look at the latest reply and compare with older ones from under the fluence, they are the same plants. They have grown more in 2 weeks than 2 months under the fluence. ANd they look green and are not drooping!

Fluence makes great lights, I am just convinced there is an issue with my lamp.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=8874954#post8874954

I may sound like a hippy, but with a good soil mix and a few supplements there is a balance and you just add water. I know they eat more under LED and took this into account when making my mixes.

Need some assistance in using my Fluence Spydrx 2 to its full potential

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