White Beard
Active member
I accept your correction and agree about the state of healthcare; expanding on the point, despite attacks on Medicare-for-all, it would represent a savings of some 14 trillion dollars over our current “path”
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The Impeachment Of Trump
- Thread starter igrowone
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I accept your correction and agree about the state of healthcare; expanding on the point, despite attacks on Medicare-for-all, it would represent a savings of some 14 trillion dollars over our current “path”
M
Mr D
I'm not sure how patent rights of a product which is the 4th leading cause of death, when used properly, is going help undo the $4.3 Trillion a year scam that is healthcare in the US.
I look at the problems and fraud with the current Medicare system combined with a huge unfunded liability and wonder how expanding it is a good idea. Then I realize it doesn't matter because health insurance companies will never allow congress to do anything but fuck us even more.
This is a transcript of the 1971 conversation between President Richard Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman that led to the HMO act of 1973:
John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”
President Nixon: “Yeah.”
Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”
President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”
Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”
President Nixon: “All right.”
Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”
President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not too keen on any of these damn medical programs.”
Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”
President Nixon: “I don’t [unclear] …”
Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”
President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”
President Nixon: “Not bad.”
[Source: University of Virginia Check - February 17, 1971, 5:26 pm - 5:53 pm, Oval Office Conversation 450-23. Look for: tape rmn_e450c.]
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tran...chman_(1971)_that_led_to_the_HMO_act_of_1973:
John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”
President Nixon: “Yeah.”
Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”
President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”
Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”
President Nixon: “All right.”
Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”
President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not too keen on any of these damn medical programs.”
Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”
President Nixon: “I don’t [unclear] …”
Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”
President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”
President Nixon: “Not bad.”
[Source: University of Virginia Check - February 17, 1971, 5:26 pm - 5:53 pm, Oval Office Conversation 450-23. Look for: tape rmn_e450c.]
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tran...chman_(1971)_that_led_to_the_HMO_act_of_1973:
Your statement does not make any sense, especially in reference to mine. Patent rights is not what my point was.
If it is not patented by a greedy company, it can be produced/marketed inexpensively.
In every system there will be some abuse. There is less room for abuse in a nonprofit system with mandatory financial reports and automatic audits than in a profit making system which can legally withhold information on lines of income, expenditure, investment and banking.
Welcome to yesterday... slow clap
That is correct and the same people who "voted" for more of this claim that even more government will unfk up what they have fked up. So wrong.
Hes still a douchebag. When looking up the def of Hypocrisy his face should be listed. All these "GOOD OLD BOYS" need to go.
Medicare for all isn't gov't run health care. What you're thinking of is the VA. Medicare for all is a universal/single payer insurance program.
Like Bernie often says, instead of an Aetna card or Blue Cross Blue Shield card, you get a medicare card which allows you to go visit any Doctor or Hospital you wish. That's about it.
because its against the law for us to negotiate for drug prices now lol. it's no coincidence we can't negotiate drug prices and we have the highest prices for drugs in the civilized world. collective bargaining will almost always give us better prices.
these conversations would pan out so much better if detractors actually understood what they were against lol. as i mentioned already single payer/medicare for all isn't a government takeover of industry.
good thing i am voting for Bernie in 2020 who has pledged to do both
I spent many years living in a country with a national health care system. Most of the propaganda they they give you here is pure bullshit. It all goes back to the rich might have to pay some taxes for a change. They would rather see you rot in hell. For them, buying politicians and feeding you bullshit is a much better deal.
#DISSBARR
M
Mr D
Medicare for all isn't gov't run health care. What you're thinking of is the VA. Medicare for all is a universal/single payer insurance program.
Like Bernie often says, instead of an Aetna card or Blue Cross Blue Shield card, you get a medicare card which allows you to go visit any Doctor or Hospital you wish. That's about it.
because its against the law for us to negotiate for drug prices now lol. it's no coincidence we can't negotiate drug prices and we have the highest prices for drugs in the civilized world. collective bargaining will almost always give us better prices.
these conversations would pan out so much better if detractors actually understood what they were against lol. as i mentioned already single payer/medicare for all isn't a government takeover of industry.
good thing i am voting for Bernie in 2020 who has pledged to do both
So I took a look at Bernie's plan and here's what I found concerning with his possible options to finance the plan.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
Personally I would end up paying over $3k that I don't currently pay, and my coverage would not be any better than my current. Based on the 4 percent income-based premium paid by households.
If I was single and made $260K a year that would make me rich under Bernie's plan and subject to a "progressive" income tax.
That would cost about $32k more a year than the current income tax rate. After I purchased a $15k a year policy I'd have equal coverage and an extra $16k in my pocket. Paying $104K on $260K income is robbery and $260K a year does not make me rich if I live in San Fran or NYC.
Amazon paid $0 in federal income taxes on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes for 2018. The company also received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government. But Bernie proposes 9 ways to Sunday for working people to pay more taxes.
Bernie does not have anywhere near the support he would need. It's an empty campaign promise
No one ever mentions the corporate garbage they sell in supermarkets that's creating a fat unhealthy population. How much do American's diets and lack of exercise contribute to health care costs? Should these things be addressed in this debate? Aging population and technology replacing workers...
This is very complex problem and free healthcare for all (who don't work) is not the answer. No other developed nation has zero out of pocket costs this plan offers. With an ageing population and the need for less workers in our high tech future this is a big fat loser.
Finland has an ageing population that is putting financial pressure on its social welfare systems.Under consideration is offering private companies in the healthcare system to a greater extent to offer "freedom of choice". So here is a system collasping under the weight of an ageing population and less workers than needed to pay for "Free" health care. Now they are looking to private company plans like we have now.
Politicians have proposals all the time. Nothing ever gets passed without congress. Medicare for all is a must. How it happens is another story.
'Boogieman'
Well-known member
He generally just makes stupid statements and never actually debates anyone but it could be much worse, at least he aint no unclebuck.
M
Mr D
From 4/9/2019
Today
It seems Mueller lied in his report, Mifsud is not a Russian Agent.
Mifsud and Claire Smith train Italian military and law enforcement officials at LINK Campus in Rome. LAD had MOD and Foreign Office contacts. They also ran dipomatic training for Commonwealth countries.
https://archive.fo/bfXGY
The New York Times described Mifsud as an “enthusiastic promoter of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia”, citing his regular involvement in the annual meetings of the Valdai Discussion Club, a Russian-based think-tank, as well as three short articles he wrote in support of Russian policies.
Mifsud strongly denied claims that he was associated with Russian intelligence, telling Italian newspaper Repubblica that he was a member of the European Council on Foreign Relations and the Clinton Foundation.
Today
It seems Mueller lied in his report, Mifsud is not a Russian Agent.
Mifsud and Claire Smith train Italian military and law enforcement officials at LINK Campus in Rome. LAD had MOD and Foreign Office contacts. They also ran dipomatic training for Commonwealth countries.
https://archive.fo/bfXGY
The New York Times described Mifsud as an “enthusiastic promoter of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia”, citing his regular involvement in the annual meetings of the Valdai Discussion Club, a Russian-based think-tank, as well as three short articles he wrote in support of Russian policies.
Mifsud strongly denied claims that he was associated with Russian intelligence, telling Italian newspaper Repubblica that he was a member of the European Council on Foreign Relations and the Clinton Foundation.
M
Mr D
It's been 3 weeks since you made this prediction. Any idea when the subpoena's are coming?
White Beard
Active member
Great economy...if your clients / customers are doing well.
Otherwise, business sucks at ground level.
Low unemployment...but *massive* UNDERemployment, decent jobs have been sold to China along with industry, people in jobs they’re OVERqualified for, where the wages have remained virtually unchanged for 50 years, where two or three jobs barely cover expenses after taxes, where childcare requires an extra job of its own to pay for, where people do without health insurance because they’ll never be able to meet their deductible by the end of the year...and can’t afford the non-ACA rates anyway.
So: HOW stupid, exactly?
M
Mr D
Because our money is created by debt and the system requires that lots of people be in debt all the time.
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