oldgrayhair
Member
PGA - pure grain alcohol
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Amber in 15 minutes from cutting
- Thread starter jump117
- Start date
O
otherwhitemeat
Jmp, just checking in...I have some new fresh trim coming in about 5-7 days....will try an ethanol wash then. Going to skip the butane extraction this time and see what I come up with. Straight wash.
Straight ethanol is very hard to get a hold of, Everclear is easy enough to get here---it's 95% ethanol, 5% water. I may also try heating the evap tray a bit in a double boiler, I have a remote oven safe thermometer so I should be able to keep it at the boiling point of ethanol, which is 173 F/78.5 C for a faster reduction of the evap. I am also hoping to heat off some of that 5% water too which is why I think I am not 100% amber, but more like melted plastic.
Would love to know sources for 100% ethanol (anhydrous)
Straight ethanol is very hard to get a hold of, Everclear is easy enough to get here---it's 95% ethanol, 5% water. I may also try heating the evap tray a bit in a double boiler, I have a remote oven safe thermometer so I should be able to keep it at the boiling point of ethanol, which is 173 F/78.5 C for a faster reduction of the evap. I am also hoping to heat off some of that 5% water too which is why I think I am not 100% amber, but more like melted plastic.
Would love to know sources for 100% ethanol (anhydrous)
Yes now I see the point. Having something to smoke very soon after harvest. Were you referring to ethanol as "pure grain alcohol?" I don't know much about ethanol, I was thinking more of the pure grain alcohol (PGA) sold in liquor stores.
Certain pharmacies sell 97% Isopropyl alcohol around here. It's what I use to make hash oil from dried scrap (butane for honey oil). It evaps pretty clean with the other 3% being distilled water.
So I was mistaken earlier. The emphasis here is on fresh material giving an awesome first smoke, not a new way to make oil. I've never looked at it from that angle but I think it's a good idea worth posting. There are plenty of people desperate for quick-dry buds that could make use of this. Avoiding quick-dry nastiness, I love it.
Certain pharmacies sell 97% Isopropyl alcohol around here. It's what I use to make hash oil from dried scrap (butane for honey oil). It evaps pretty clean with the other 3% being distilled water.
So I was mistaken earlier. The emphasis here is on fresh material giving an awesome first smoke, not a new way to make oil. I've never looked at it from that angle but I think it's a good idea worth posting. There are plenty of people desperate for quick-dry buds that could make use of this. Avoiding quick-dry nastiness, I love it.
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otherwhitemeat
I spoke to a friend who's an organic chemist and a total deviant, he refers to the process of making amber as 'forced polymerization' He told me how the ethanol causes weak bonds to form between the various THC's and terpenes which make 'oil' or 'amber'; amber being the more polymerized version. He indicated that water will not solve in our case (ethanol extraction) but that some water will seep into the mixture as THC forms with a water molecule attached, only when it dries does it become psychoactive.
He said that my 'amber' is probably more like 20-30% water as I used some fresh stuff and the ethanol is not able to break the water-THC bond so it basically just washes off (like using dish soap). He me a great idea on how to remove the remaining 4-5% water from the ethanol, I am going to try this later this week.
Here's are some ideas he gave me:
a) getting anhydrous ethanol, which is expensive and hard to find. Problem is you still have the water from your wash which needs to be dealt with.
b) use of a molecular filter. Apparently organic chemists use molecular filters that allow alcohol to pass through, leaving water on one side of a filtration barrier. Also expensive and costly, some molecular filters are around $100 USD.
c) Use of a dessicant (like DampRid for example) He said that quite a few labs will take ethanol at 96% they may sometimes place a sample in a dessication chamber which can take the ethanol down to 99.5% pure in the right conditions, the water escapes from the ethanol and is abosrbed by the DampRid. (this sounds cheap and easy to do and I have some DampRid around the house)
He recommended boiling off the ethanol quickly until it's almost reduced so that theres just a little alcohol/solvent misture (ie more surface area for water to evap. Ethanol boils at 178 F, so he advised heating the solution in a double boiler until most of the ethanol is gone and to not damage the THC, ensuring that the wtaer below stays below 212 F. At that point, most of the water will be in tact, the concentration of which will skyrocket to over 20-40% in solution. He advised me to take the solvent extraction and place it into a small glass dish, then place this small dish inside of an airtight container. Alongside the dish with extraction I am to put a separate small dish of DampRid and let it sit overnight. When I return in the morning, my solvent should be completely devoid of water and the remaining alcohol should have evaporated. Ideally, I would be left with a pure mixture, devoid of water and much less sticky.
I have two plants to harvest this week and will give it a try, will let you know my results!
He said that my 'amber' is probably more like 20-30% water as I used some fresh stuff and the ethanol is not able to break the water-THC bond so it basically just washes off (like using dish soap). He me a great idea on how to remove the remaining 4-5% water from the ethanol, I am going to try this later this week.
Here's are some ideas he gave me:
a) getting anhydrous ethanol, which is expensive and hard to find. Problem is you still have the water from your wash which needs to be dealt with.
b) use of a molecular filter. Apparently organic chemists use molecular filters that allow alcohol to pass through, leaving water on one side of a filtration barrier. Also expensive and costly, some molecular filters are around $100 USD.
c) Use of a dessicant (like DampRid for example) He said that quite a few labs will take ethanol at 96% they may sometimes place a sample in a dessication chamber which can take the ethanol down to 99.5% pure in the right conditions, the water escapes from the ethanol and is abosrbed by the DampRid. (this sounds cheap and easy to do and I have some DampRid around the house)
He recommended boiling off the ethanol quickly until it's almost reduced so that theres just a little alcohol/solvent misture (ie more surface area for water to evap. Ethanol boils at 178 F, so he advised heating the solution in a double boiler until most of the ethanol is gone and to not damage the THC, ensuring that the wtaer below stays below 212 F. At that point, most of the water will be in tact, the concentration of which will skyrocket to over 20-40% in solution. He advised me to take the solvent extraction and place it into a small glass dish, then place this small dish inside of an airtight container. Alongside the dish with extraction I am to put a separate small dish of DampRid and let it sit overnight. When I return in the morning, my solvent should be completely devoid of water and the remaining alcohol should have evaporated. Ideally, I would be left with a pure mixture, devoid of water and much less sticky.
I have two plants to harvest this week and will give it a try, will let you know my results!
Hey Colleagues !
BubsNugs
Chiefsmokingbud
fjällhöga
Hashmasta-Kut
JBIG420
melvin2
mosfetti
oldgrayhair
otherwhitemeat
stke_fingas
teddybud
TheSoulStealer
and all the people who visited the topic, sadly I cannot read their names in reputation box now.
Thank you for your interest, let me continue plz.
The question is how total is this extraction? What is the residue of useful vitamins remains in the bud after this wash?
Through the microscope I’ve seen a lot of empty trich stalks and a lot of trichs still here.
Trying to compare these two lots I crumbled the dried bud then butaned it (100ml ) and got a fat drop of dark olive goo. Looks like I’ve extacted leaves… It is the extractable rest stayed after quick wash .
Here is the bud segmented into three parts - amber, goo and oilcake.
Disappointing result. Would be better to make third fresh ethanol wash instead of dry and bho.
Or maybe first wash 2 min and second short just to rinse. This timing has to be adjusted.
I’m sure that my ethanol is ordinary 96 % C2H5OH I think PGA is the same (but “grain” confused me ‘cos it doesn’t incude potatoes). It is drinkable and eatable but the other usage is similar to iso.
96% is good, no need to find better %. Moisture removal is very difficult process I wouldn’t try this and don’t recommend you. That 4% of water doesn’t disturb water soluble fractions much. I’ve reported about water wash after ethanol ("Add some water!") and know the subject.
I’m not sure that key word of brittle amber is ‘ethanol’ I think maybe the key word is ‘fresh’, but I cannot examine this ‘cos have no iso. You have. 97% Isopropyl . Why not to try fresh iso wash and info about it ?
Jump!
BubsNugs
Chiefsmokingbud
fjällhöga
Hashmasta-Kut
JBIG420
melvin2
mosfetti
oldgrayhair
otherwhitemeat
stke_fingas
teddybud
TheSoulStealer
and all the people who visited the topic, sadly I cannot read their names in reputation box now.
Thank you for your interest, let me continue plz.
The question is how total is this extraction? What is the residue of useful vitamins remains in the bud after this wash?
Through the microscope I’ve seen a lot of empty trich stalks and a lot of trichs still here.
Trying to compare these two lots I crumbled the dried bud then butaned it (100ml ) and got a fat drop of dark olive goo. Looks like I’ve extacted leaves… It is the extractable rest stayed after quick wash .
Here is the bud segmented into three parts - amber, goo and oilcake.
Disappointing result. Would be better to make third fresh ethanol wash instead of dry and bho.
Or maybe first wash 2 min and second short just to rinse. This timing has to be adjusted.
I’m sure that my ethanol is ordinary 96 % C2H5OH I think PGA is the same (but “grain” confused me ‘cos it doesn’t incude potatoes). It is drinkable and eatable but the other usage is similar to iso.
96% is good, no need to find better %. Moisture removal is very difficult process I wouldn’t try this and don’t recommend you. That 4% of water doesn’t disturb water soluble fractions much. I’ve reported about water wash after ethanol ("Add some water!") and know the subject.
I’m not sure that key word of brittle amber is ‘ethanol’ I think maybe the key word is ‘fresh’, but I cannot examine this ‘cos have no iso. You have. 97% Isopropyl . Why not to try fresh iso wash and info about it ?
Jump!
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otherwhitemeat
Okay, I am jealous...I really like the idea of amber and want to make some...I tried some different things. I started with a 30 second wash of fresh buds and Everclear in a mason jar.
-Use of Damprid to 'dry out' my sample. I tried overnight in a box with some DampRid, there was no change in state of my 'sticky amber',
-I tried multiple filtrations and dissolutions. While this did rid me of some waxy chunks and give me a very pure finished product. I wind up with the hard stuff totally stuck to my glass. Or a very sticky product which is more like heated candy than anything anything else. Status-in development. This makes very pure product, clear tasty.
1. I rinse the weed for 30 seconds
2. Filter through a small strainer
3. then Filter through a coffee filter, then refilter again
4. Evaporate alcohol in a double boiler, ensuring that the water temp stays at 210 F (just below a rolling boil)
5. Let cool and scrape.
The first time I think I made the amber but it was too brittle, couldn't even remove it from the glass dish. So I added ethanol and started over. My finished product now is more like sticky, hot candy.
Somewhere in between lies my objective, I just don't know how to get there yet...It could also be strain dependent.
-Use of Damprid to 'dry out' my sample. I tried overnight in a box with some DampRid, there was no change in state of my 'sticky amber',
-I tried multiple filtrations and dissolutions. While this did rid me of some waxy chunks and give me a very pure finished product. I wind up with the hard stuff totally stuck to my glass. Or a very sticky product which is more like heated candy than anything anything else. Status-in development. This makes very pure product, clear tasty.
1. I rinse the weed for 30 seconds
2. Filter through a small strainer
3. then Filter through a coffee filter, then refilter again
4. Evaporate alcohol in a double boiler, ensuring that the water temp stays at 210 F (just below a rolling boil)
5. Let cool and scrape.
The first time I think I made the amber but it was too brittle, couldn't even remove it from the glass dish. So I added ethanol and started over. My finished product now is more like sticky, hot candy.
Somewhere in between lies my objective, I just don't know how to get there yet...It could also be strain dependent.
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Yes. it's hard to remove if you let it cool, and it's gonna pop-up and disappear from view, I warm up the plate to soften a bit and prevent this.
Q: it was brittle and after redissolving became sticky?
I used only two - first time in may CalifornianOrangeBud x K2 and now WhiteRussian.
Did you try iso on fresh?
could you explain that step in a little more detail? havin trouble figuring out exactly what you mean..
also how much bud (wet weight) are you using to achieve that cylinder of amber?
thnx man
OK excuse me plz it was lost in translation. I tried to describe an improvised double boiler.
The saucepan is partially filled with water brought to a simmer or boil.
It is covered with a white smooth soup plate (with no scratches on inner side) as a lid.
This plate is kept above the boiling water and heated only by steam. It is an evaporation bowl.
This double-decker uses to evaporate solvent from solution placed in an evaporation bowl.
I've edited that post.
Unfortunately I don't have digital scales now and cannot report the weights. It was a walnut size fresh bud about 4cm (1 1/2") length.
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otherwhitemeat
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It was too brittle to remove from my dish, it broke my razor blade. So I reheated it up with a double boiler and it didn't get soft enough to remove so I re-dissolved it with Ethanol. The second time my end result was too sticky. I think I need to find the right time to remove it from the evap step. So any more insights you have into how you 'finish' would be much appreciated
The first time I waited until it was pretty much fully purged and looked kinda like BHO does after a full purge, the second time I removed it when the consistency was somewhere around that of cold molasses. I will keep trying and let you know what I come up with!
I would like to make small amber balls or doses that make it easier to handle when I have smoke parties. My guests love the BHO, but I find the consistency a bit fiddly to work with.
I started with about 1 oz of fresh-less than 12 hours cut; frosty trim and popcorn buds.
I may try ISO wash next but am going to get the 99% stuff from the pharmacy. I may try the Everclear one more time and try removing from the flame at the right time.
What is your experience using dried material to do the ethanol wash?
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Hey OtherWhiteMeat when I do evaporation I see two definitely different states of the substance at one time.
First - hard oily film and second - liquid puddle in deeper parts of the evaporation bowl that becomes smaller and smaller and then disappears at all.
After the puddle is disappeared I think the evaporation is complete.
You described another type of process with fluently increasing viscosity of the solution.
I suspect that origin of the difference is maybe in % of resin in solution, that was caused by proportion of income material to solvent.
In other words maybe your solution was more concentrate from the start?
Many processes differ with bigger quantity. You started with about 1 oz and it is about 28 times bigger than my one.
I've used dried material to do the ethanol wash many times but income material was always only bonsai leaves that is poor quality.
Nevertheless I've got a smokeable dark plastic sticky mass or goo after every bonsai trimming. I didn't try this with dried bud trim yet.
There is some pix.
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Jump whats up bro
gotta commend you on this - just tried out a small batch and gotta say i love the results
far as yeild went i fucked up, just had some vodka laying round the house so i used that..
i noticed after the wash there was still alotta intacted trichs left on the buds..
im guessin i gotta get some everclear next time or possibly shake longer..
either way man i see alot of potential in this method - i love the managable consistancy of the hash - blows BHO out the water!! thnx man K+
gotta commend you on this - just tried out a small batch and gotta say i love the results
far as yeild went i fucked up, just had some vodka laying round the house so i used that..
i noticed after the wash there was still alotta intacted trichs left on the buds..
im guessin i gotta get some everclear next time or possibly shake longer..
either way man i see alot of potential in this method - i love the managable consistancy of the hash - blows BHO out the water!! thnx man K+
Very nice, I'm more of a BHO head myself but I love the fact that you get brittle amber with this method. I should do a little research I in fact have very little idea what it is your doing. Wash, evap, scrape correct? seems simple enough. The thing I like about BHO is your not heating up a flammable solution but I'd have to see a step by step on it to determine for my self. I liked the fact that you seemed to get a large amount of amber for the size of nug but I have no idea how big that coin actually is and unfortunally you don't have a scale so I have no idea if there would be a yeild benifit over BHO, any opinions?
The coin is 1 euro, it's diameter is 23.25mm = 0.916" = 29/32" it is little bit smaller than US Quarter D= 24.26 mm = 0.955 in.
!
Sure, it was short description in the thread "Butane honey oil for dummies"-page 38-
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2080721&postcount=568
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31950&page=39 -posts #568, 571
