Sacramento Area Growers?

El Bandito · Jan 27, 2013

We have some unique challenges with the extremely hot and dry summers here in California's armpit. Spider mites love it here! I am hoping that a few more experienced growers in my area can chip in with some advice on strain selection, pest control, or any other tips for a novice grower as he begins to plan for the upcoming season. What are your thoughts for this year?

I am in Roseville, and our city enacted an ordinance prohibiting outdoor cultivation after last season ended. They called it a source of air pollution in order to get the ordinance through, though, which means that it's not a criminal issue and you get warned first if somebody reports that you have plants that can be smelled or seen. Here's a quote:

"Growers and property owners who violate the ordinance could be fined up to $500 a day if warnings to concede are not corrected"

I have a huge backyard with 2 big dogs and I grew inside a greenhouse last year with nobody noticing. I don't see any issues this year unless somehow they were to dedicate funds to searching out gardens. Someone would have to complain. Sure, that's a possibility, but if it happens, I will just drag the plants into the garage to comply. With our epic long days of intense sunlight, it is ridiculous for me to be using lamps and the buttload of electricity it would cost to keep things cool enough in there.

At the end of the day, this ordinance doesn't really target peaceful middle aged family oriented legal head stash cultivators like myself. My only worry at this point? How the hell do I get my fiancé to let me do it? She barely tolerates all this weed stuff and this ordinance gives her objections some pretty solid footing. Argh! Screw you, Roseville! I will win her over though.

So- I am looking to flower out six ladies in 20 gallon smart pots this summer, in a 5x8 greenhouse. You can see the shape of the plants through the material on the sides but it's sort if tough to make anything out. I use fans to move air through it but it I usually 100 plus degrees in there. With lots of mulch and adequate water, it worked ok. I am thinking about maybe SSSDH for its lack of strong smell.

My main problem last year was spider mites. Even with that lesson learned and a dedicated preventative measure routine, I have a feeling that the Borg will still be a problem this year. I see lots of compost tea and water spraying in my future. The good news is that I can spray down all those buds every day in September and never have mold problems. Everything dries out so fast.

So... I would kill to hear about the experiences of other growers in my area- maybe point me to your last grow journal too. Who's running what this year? Any local dispensaries selling amazing cuts? I have so many questions! Here's to a fantastic 2013!

MelloYello · Jan 27, 2013

Sacramento

Sacramento

S

El Bandito · Jan 27, 2013

Sacramento Area Growers?

Sup MY! I just don't think it's something local law enforcement wants to deal with unless it's causing more serious issues. I used to get my herb at Doctors Orders over there near DPH, and in fact that's where I got my clones for last years outdoor run.

jayjayfrank · Jan 27, 2013

sigh

"talk the old lady into it"

"sssdh for its low smell"

lets start here.... no club in sacramento has good cuts... unless somebody from here ordered some seeds from the bou/seedbay and hooked a club up with cuts. i would take a pack of seedbay freebies over the stuff i see in clubs around this place. if you really want cuts then go into the bay area and hunt around the coast for a weekend.

as for cover or getting heat from neighbors - do you do any other gardening? do you have a completely yellow lawn, dead trees? is two giant dogs and a green house the only thing that look taken care of on the landscape? i used to be super paranoid about dragging bags of dirt into my backyard but i don't care anymore. there becomes a point where it is harder to pick out the cannabis plants when your whole backyard is full of plants to begin with.

when its planting season go to the farmers market downtown under the freeway and buy flats of plants. they get down to $1 each and get strong smelling herbs like mint and rosemary. plant them everywhere.

read the wording on the outdoor ban carefully. you might have to do something like put a fence with a lock around your greenhouse to become 'complaint'. check into getting a shed but replace the roofing with greenhouse/poly/glass.

do your best to keep things under 95. the best thing that helps with heat is growing sativas. i recommend ace zamaldelica or sams skunk haze. in a green house you can finish off long season sativas and also get in an indica spring harvest. i would try something like cannacopias babba kush or spice of life blue crosses - helps flowering from being root bound.

check out the hydro shop by watt and 80.

this years outdoor line up might include: dj short cocoa kush, spice of life blue sat 2.2, rez snowdog bx and alpha diesel, cannabiogen peyote purple, cannacopia baba kush and chunky cheese. seeds of personal crosses later in the season depending how things fill in.

El Bandito · Jan 27, 2013

Sacramento Area Growers?

Awesome JJF! Thanks for all of the info. Last year when I bought those clones, it was an impulse purchase spurned on by the fact that I had spent the last several weeks working in my yard and garden, getting things looking good and my veggies going. I had been buying weed there for a while and the clones were cheap so I bought a few. I knew nothing about growing it.

This year I want to do it right and of course will spare the time and expense to obtain better genetics. I just asked because I saw that dispensary one time had 50 dollar GSC clones and it made me think that maybe somebody does sell killer cuts around here for people who are willing to pay the price. A friend suggested a weekend trip to Arcata. I AM planning g a trip to the LA Cannabis Cup next month but dunno if they will have cuts there. I have been growing from seed but feel hard pressed to do so optimally in time for this outdoor season. I'd rather get a couple of elite moms going soon.

As for the wording of the ordinance- in Roseville we are hosed. In Sac there is a way to be compliant in a greenhouse, but it has to be inside your primary residence here, like an open top sun room patio in the middle of your home would work. I am really not worried about attracting attention, like I said. Our neighbors love us and we all are chatty and helpful with each other. We are a full time working middle aged couple. The low odor factor on the SSSDH is more about not causing my fiancé a bunch of unneeded stress every time she drives around the corner onto our street and catches a nice whiff of skunk about four days prior to her menstruation kicking in when that fury is built up just right and her boss pissed her off that day and she isn't getting any younger and it's time for me to grow the fuck up and why do we have an illegal god damned weed FACTORY in the backyard and how is our baby going to feel watching daddy get stuffed into the back of a police car and for the love of Christ how can I not notice that the trash can is full and take it out without being asked and maybe it's just time to grow up!

Do not underestimate the rage of the "old lady" my friend.

. happy wife, happy life.

Man, 95 degrees is gonna be tough. I am growing some Sam's Skunk x Haze indoor atm but I ended up tossing the sativa phenos that would have been good for outdoor. Mine's indica all the way.

I am gonna research all those other strains you are running with. :tiphat:

darthvapor · Jan 28, 2013

If your in a greenhouse the spider mites have no natural predators so they will proliferate exponential. I would introduce lady bugs, spider mite predators, Feltiella acarisuga a predator midge. have these in place before you get spider mites. Its a prevention not a solution. Also put into place sacrificial garden plants that would attract mites to them and not your cannabis. Mites are manageable but you gotta stay ahead of them and be proactive. Spidermites never take a day off and neither should you in fighting them

SeaMaiden · Jan 28, 2013

El Bandito said:
We have some unique challenges with the extremely hot and dry summers here in California's armpit. Spider mites love it here! I am hoping that a few more experienced growers in my area can chip in with some advice on strain selection, pest control, or any other tips for a novice grower as he begins to plan for the upcoming season. What are your thoughts for this year?

I am in Roseville, and our city enacted an ordinance prohibiting outdoor cultivation after last season ended. They called it a source of air pollution in order to get the ordinance through, though, which means that it's not a criminal issue and you get warned first if somebody reports that you have plants that can be smelled or seen. Here's a quote:

"Growers and property owners who violate the ordinance could be fined up to $500 a day if warnings to concede are not corrected"

I have a huge backyard with 2 big dogs and I grew inside a greenhouse last year with nobody noticing. I don't see any issues this year unless somehow they were to dedicate funds to searching out gardens. Someone would have to complain. Sure, that's a possibility, but if it happens, I will just drag the plants into the garage to comply. With our epic long days of intense sunlight, it is ridiculous for me to be using lamps and the buttload of electricity it would cost to keep things cool enough in there.

At the end of the day, this ordinance doesn't really target peaceful middle aged family oriented legal head stash cultivators like myself. My only worry at this point? How the hell do I get my fiancé to let me do it? She barely tolerates all this weed stuff and this ordinance gives her objections some pretty solid footing. Argh! Screw you, Roseville! I will win her over though.

So- I am looking to flower out six ladies in 20 gallon smart pots this summer, in a 5x8 greenhouse. You can see the shape of the plants through the material on the sides but it's sort if tough to make anything out. I use fans to move air through it but it I usually 100 plus degrees in there. With lots of mulch and adequate water, it worked ok. I am thinking about maybe SSSDH for its lack of strong smell.

My main problem last year was spider mites. Even with that lesson learned and a dedicated preventative measure routine, I have a feeling that the Borg will still be a problem this year. I see lots of compost tea and water spraying in my future. The good news is that I can spray down all those buds every day in September and never have mold problems. Everything dries out so fast.

So... I would kill to hear about the experiences of other growers in my area- maybe point me to your last grow journal too. Who's running what this year? Any local dispensaries selling amazing cuts? I have so many questions! Here's to a fantastic 2013!

I'm about an hour and a half away from Sact'o/Roseville.

Here's the big issue with cultivation in these highly agriculturalized areas--the pests and disease are not only present, but they're virulent and many may be resistant to conventional treatments. I can't explain why my pole beans got spider mites in September, but they did.

I use a combination of methods to combat the mites. Plant extracts, plant essential oils, 'smothering' type oils (JMS Stylet), and paying extremely careful attention to my handling 'direction'. Direction means that I handle the least valuable plants last, most valuable first, with the premise being that I'm clean as a vector when I go out into the garden. So, the pot gets first attention, then the veggies in desending order.

I've heard about a dispensary in El Dorado Hills, but I've never been to it or any other dispensary. Sorry, cannot advise you on which ones to visit for best cuts or anything like that.

Couple of other notes on keeping the borg at bay (they're actually not that bad, not compared to other pests I've dealt with thus far), keeping RH higher is not to their liking. If they re-emerge, you must remember that it is of utmost importance to treat EVERY THREE DAYS, whatever you use (assuming organic), like it's your new religion. The warmer and drier it is, the more important it is to remember to keep this treatment protocol. Two weeks of treating every three days has eliminated the few spider mite issues I've experienced.

growbig789 · Jan 28, 2013

I agree with you, I think you will be fine with your greenhouse setup again even with the ordinance. Most of the complaints and "problems" are coming from neighbors of folks blowing it up in their small backyard with 10-50 smartpots... not that I necessarily think anything is wrong with that, but it attracts alot of attention obviously. Its all about standard courtesy and trying to offset the smell if there is some to keep the neighbors happy or unaware.

I hear you on the wife thing... I get some of the same grief at times, mainly if the smell becomes real noticeable. I like the idea of planting other herbs around, what about putting a jar of ONA or odor eliminating stuff in the greenhouse later in flower? I mean if it was really a big deal you probably could rig up some sort of carbon filter exhaust maybe, or at least tell the wife you have a plan to minimize the smell when it starts.

I live a couple hours north of you and mites/thrips both are an issue for me... alternating neem/spinosad up through early flower has worked good for me but then yah I just have used water sprays to finish them out.

I haven't been but have been really thinking about checking out the Lake County 215 farmers market... seems like that could be a good source of cuts locally that may actually be worth buying? I too am hesitant about buying clones from dispensaries, I've grown my best from seed...

jayjayfrank · Jan 28, 2013

yes, the lake county 215 farmers market is on the shopping list

ONA sells a one gallon bucket with a fan duct attachment, it wont last long with the airflow a greenhouse has but maybe late in flower it will help

El Bandito · Jan 29, 2013

Hi Sea Maiden and Growbig! Thanks for dropping in and taking the time to share your thoughts. Maybe I'm overthinking the spider mite thing- it was really traumatic for me last year, but it was my first grow and I was a spaz about everything. It's just about staying ahead of them I guess.

I've been researching different strains suggested by local growers. JayJay Frank- that Zamaldelica sounds really intriguing and unique. Have you run the strain before?

One friend recommended Grape Haze and said he has access to some great clones- I'd love to have a tasy big yielding sativa that won't end peoples' day when you smoke it with them. Anyone else have experience with this strain locally?

jayjayfrank · Jan 29, 2013

your spider mites may very well have come on the clones. i have not run zamaldelica outside, only in my tent - but - she does finish before my thaihazeskunk, which comes down in december outdoors. so i would expect zamadelica to come down at the end of november.

i would start the seeds in doors and put them outside late in the season(july). tropical sativas will autoflower if planted too early(march).

my Zamaldelica is lovely. the taste is this.... plant some carrots... when they are baby carrots just getting ripe... pull them out of the ground and take a bite, dirt and everything.

sweet - dirty - carrots, exactly. i had no idea what 'earthy' meant when reading strain descriptions of ace and cbg, now i do. i have never smoked buds that taste like carrots. and i have never had a 'real sativa high'. a real tropical sativas high, it is not for purchase - rather, i don't know anybody who sells it and have never had anything close in effect. i have never seen real tropical sativa buds for sale(mexibrick does not count). the only people who have described the real sativa experience is old timers from the import days.

the high is long and gradual, there is no peak, there it not even a rush, no elevator going up - you only notice coming down. you smoke more it 'pushes' you more. ever take magic mushrooms? thats what your body feels like. every take acid? thats how 'bright' things get. ever turn into a puddle on mdma? or maybe wonder exactly how squinted your eyes really are? there is no conductor to sell you tickets for this ride. you buy the seeds and smoke the buds. that is the admission.

i have yet to find oil or wax for sale thats worth it, something i couldnt burn a gram of in a day, something that actually did me in two hits. a newbies second harvest could potentially be better than anything for sale in a mmj dispensary in cali. what do you do when you don't consider cali commerical high grade? i have found 2nd and 3rd tier buds giving me a better high then the top shelf.

when the old timers say stuff is too strong now a days... well... i think they are talking about 'the elevator going up'. which is the only thing the new generation knows. the new generation basis how 'strong' a bud is by how fast it moves their elevator, what they might not realize is the elevator is going down.

enough ranting, smoke hash

Sinkyone · Jan 29, 2013

Mites are a pain, but can be dealt with if you are proactive about dealing with them. First of all make sure all your environmental factors are working in your favor. Mites do not like wind so be sure there is lots of air movement in your greenhouse - enough that the plants look like they are swaying in a light breeze. Make sure the plans never get under-watered. Mites will attack water-stressed plants first - keeping them happy and healthy is your first line of defense against them and a factor that is often over-looked. There is evidence that reducing dust via mulch and ground-covers and watering with an overhead system (or misting plants once a day with water) also can reduce spider mite populations. However the overhead watering can encourage other pests so keep that in mind.

Secondly, be preventative with your pest control. Though I almost always use organic methods, I do recommend using some sort of systemic miticide early in the season right before and/or right after planting to knock the population back and prevent them from getting established. Applying a small amount of systemic, non-organic pesticides once or twice at the beginning of the season is preferable to constant application of organic sprays in my opinion. Whatever you end up using be sure to try to use sprays that will not kill the mites natural enemies. Organics will be much more effective if the population is reduced or destroyed before you plant. Unfortunately most organic and bio-control methods for mites will not be effective if pest pressure becomes extreme - so don't let it get to that point if you want to keep things organic. There are also some relatively newer mitcides that are very specific to just mites (though not organic), which is pretty darn cool in my opinion.

Third - do NOT apply any insecticide with carbaryl or pyrethroids. These insecticides are not very effective against mites, in fact they actually stimulate mite reproduction! Whatever you do end up using, even if it is organic, you NEED to rotate your insecticides and not apply the same one over, and over, and over again. Mites breed very, very fast and build up resistances rapidly. Using the same product repeatedly will just breed resistance for that product - even if it is organic. If is important that you use mitcides with a different 'mode of action' and switch up what you are using. Ideally you should try not to use the same mitcide more than once or twice a season.

Take a look at what UC Davis has to say too:

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/QT/spidermitescard.html
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r302400111.html

El Bandito · Jan 29, 2013

Damn JayJay that's what I've been thinking too- I want an alternative to the top shelf stuff. I want a daytime smoke with a different profile to the high, that I can share with the old timers. =p I think I am going to need to grow at least one of these Zamaldelicas soon!

Sinkyone- thanks for your advice. I guess I might be open to a systemic miticide really early in development... what is your product of choice?

I already avoid pyrethroids because they are poisonous to cats and I have several of those. Good to know that carbaryl is also not too effective. I spent a long time researching this last year, and the big problem is that pretty much ANY liquid that's mixed in with water and a surfactant will help to control mite populations. Pesticide manufacturers are allowed to add 'spider mites' to the list of pests that their product "controls" even though the actual chemical has no effect on the mites. Dirty trick.

Sinkyone · Jan 30, 2013

Last season I treated everything with Akari and Hexygon before planting and had no mite issues for the rest of the year. Each one uses a different mode of action to kill the mites. Be sure to get yourself a full face respirator and chemical suite - even for organic pesticides. The Hexygon says you do not need a respirator to apply it, but there is evidence that it can be carcinogenic so better safe than sorry. Neither one is particularly harmful so long as it is applied carefully and responsibly.

Not sure what I will use this year. I still have both of these left but it's probably time to rotate a new product in.

JunkinTheTrunk · Jan 31, 2013

growbig789 said:
I agree with you, I think you will be fine with your greenhouse setup again even with the ordinance. Most of the complaints and "problems" are coming from neighbors of folks blowing it up in their small backyard with 10-50 smartpots... not that I necessarily think anything is wrong with that, but it attracts alot of attention obviously. Its all about standard courtesy and trying to offset the smell if there is some to keep the neighbors happy or unaware.

I hear you on the wife thing... I get some of the same grief at times, mainly if the smell becomes real noticeable. I like the idea of planting other herbs around, what about putting a jar of ONA or odor eliminating stuff in the greenhouse later in flower? I mean if it was really a big deal you probably could rig up some sort of carbon filter exhaust maybe, or at least tell the wife you have a plan to minimize the smell when it starts.

I live a couple hours north of you and mites/thrips both are an issue for me... alternating neem/spinosad up through early flower has worked good for me but then yah I just have used water sprays to finish them out.

I haven't been but have been really thinking about checking out the Lake County 215 farmers market... seems like that could be a good source of cuts locally that may actually be worth buying? I too am hesitant about buying clones from dispensaries, I've grown my best from seed...

Thought id let yall know i JUST moved out of Roseville IT SUCKS! but Lincoln aint much better lmao. But anyways back to reason for my quote and post. For the Smell you can actually offset very natural and actually productive as well. you can plant Tomatoes, and Mint in the Group causing a really really good aroma inside your greenhouse or just outside in planeview it helps shut everyone up BIG TIME. cause no one can smell pot thru mainly the Mint and the Tomatoes give off a vegi smell so it nullifies any idea they would have. Secondly if you dont wanna go thru that you can always grab whats called carbon airfresh's ive got some coming in in just under 2 weeks since im an importer but ye if anyone needs some let me know. Take care and Good Luck.
p.s. Spider Mites in Roseville is Impossible to beat almost but in a greenhouse there is a solution that will kill em and get rid of them to keep them from coming back

Search out the Shultz Family solutions u will LOVE the results.

El Bandito · Feb 2, 2013

Sacramento Area Growers?

Yeah JunkintheTrunk Lincoln isn't all that far away from here so stay vigilant!

My greenhouse is not sealed- I have both doors open and window covers rolled up so air can get through. It's more for privacy than anything else.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1359772102.961128.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1359772159.372753.jpg

There is a garden right next to the greenhouse that will have tomatoes. I will make sure to plant some herbs as well. Keeping some in the greenhouse sounds good.

There are only a couple of additional changes I am considering for this season:

Blumats. I would have to buy them. Last year I did a drip system on a timer, but it's hard to dial things in just right for each plant. An extra hundred bucks for perfectly watered pots seems like a no brainer.

Compost teas- I want to reap the rewards of the compost heap I built last Summer. I have about 60 cubic feet of black gold.

Mesh netting over the door entrances- last year I had a decent amount of caterpillar damage. If I can keep the moths out with mesh I can save some cola tops.

kinger · Feb 2, 2013

Damn caterpilars They got me last year also

jayjayfrank · Feb 2, 2013

i have not seen blumats locally. i would use ebay or amazon. make sure to use a pressure reducer if hooked directly to a hose.

capulators beneficials from ebay for tea.

ask the guys at the watt and 80 hydrostore for tea making supplies... airlift etc

BrownThumb · Feb 2, 2013

MelloYello said:
Sacramento city also passed something a few months ago. I am in DPH (Within Sac city limits), you need a fresh body for them to respond here.

Hahahahahaha...love DPH... I mean to pass by DPH. That's where the last dispensary I went to is located. Hit and miss on the herbie hancock, but they had some good stuff at $35 an 8th. They have cuts, but they look like shit to me and probably have bugs to infect the rest of your goods... I could be dead wrong about the bugs, but the cuts have looked like shit every time I have been there.

Yeah, I am in just the next town over from Roseville...good cheap electricty there for indoor. Mites have not been an issue for me yet indoors, but my understanding is contamination is usually the culprit, may apply to outdoors as well. Those Roseville cops seem to be under worked, so I wouldn't be surprised if they fucked w/ you.

I am digging the Afghan Land race I am running, but can only tell you it is very potent and seems like it will be very tasty once it has cured. Uber dense buds that will get so thick they can mold up would be my concern if I were you and ran this same stuff. I don't think this strain is very stinky, but others disagree, so if that's a concern, do NL or Cindy 99 or one of them other no stinky strains.

Anyway, happy hunting for your strain for 2013!

El Bandito · Feb 2, 2013

Sacramento Area Growers?

Thanks Brown Thumb- love the name btw. It makes me chuckle every time. I too am glad I don't have to go to DPH anymore (no offense to you Mellow).

I went and read your thread about the AK's and found it enlightening and enjoyable. I think those seeds you made by pollinating that sativa plant could be interesting outdoors.

It's cool to know that there are some IC mag'ers here locally that I can hit up for knowledge. I have had a couple of folks reach out to me via PM with friendly offers of seeds and clones that have performed well for them. You guys are awesome. I am always open to helping other growers out, so feel free to hit me up for genetics and such. I wish I had more to offer, but I do have Sour Bubble clones, and those seeds have been tough to find as of late.

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