Insect Frass

ClackamasCootz · Aug 8, 2012

I'll stipulate that it is, without a doubt, a material with THE highest microbial life in the entire universe. Finis.

So is a leg with gangrene. A festering sore. The socket of a decaying tooth. How does that relate to the microbes in a soil or those found in worm castings?

Manure is manure - run it through your worm bin

SeaMaiden · Aug 8, 2012

MrSterling said:
Can we differentiate between what sort of frass we are discussing? Some of us are discussing mealworm frass, I remember one of the older members talking about cricket frass months ago too. I don't believe all frass is created equal. I need to find somewhere to get this mealworm frass sent off to be tested for microbial life or what have you.

Maybe a reptile veterinary office can do that for you. I'm assuming you've got that many mealworms to feed either amphibians or reptiles, maybe geckos or something like that.

When we had the leopard gecko he would mostly only eat crickets, for some reason mealies didn't interest him very often. Because of our distance to a pet shop where we could buy his feed crix I set up a cage for keeping a couple hundred crix. That led to a lot of cricket frass, which, when the cage got cleaned out, went as top-dressing to various plants. I never experienced a problem, they all seemed awfully happy to get the poop. But then perhaps it's one of those things like bat guano top-dressings--go too heavy or thick and you're going to cause rot or something similarly lovely.

Babombeez · Mar 10, 2013

Insect Frass from Organic Nutrients

Insect Frass from Organic Nutrients

Here are some shots of my garden using Insect Frass from Organic Nutrients:

Let the pictures speak for themselves...

~beez

invocation · Mar 10, 2013

Well frass me up, nice Garden!!! I saw them selling those shit bags at the grow store for 20 bucks each.

MrSterling · Mar 11, 2013

The cost at grow stores or garden centers is prohibitive, considering how mealworms and bugs pump the stuff at. My opinion has changed in the past year. Simplify it all, run the frass through the compost instead of worrying what the frass itself is directly bringing to the plant.

Babombeez · Mar 11, 2013

Prohibitive?

Prohibitive?

A little frass goes a long way... They sell 25 pound bags for $165 and that will last you quite some time, especially when you are using it to make an extract tea. Think about how much the typical cannabis gardener spends on nutrients, often in the hundreds and hundreds of dollars (e.g., Advanced). The frass doesn't go bad either like a lot of nutrients which have a shelf life. I am not saying run out and buy the stuff, but it works well and is teeming with microbes.

I find the insect frass extremely useful against fighting fungus gnats, and also spider mites. Anything that feeds on the plant is severely weakened. The spider mites on a few of my outdoor plants were left UNATTENDED and UNTREATED for over a month while I was out of the country, and the mites could not build webbing or destroy the plant because the chitinase from the frass was poisoning them. I have even had broad mites and the frass kept them at bay.

I am a believer in the stuff...

~beez

bigshrimp · Mar 13, 2013

Coot already said it all.

Poo and chitin need to be composted before using, so bang for your buck there are cheaper amendments with the same basic results.

There is a light outside my house that all the bugs go to die in, it gets dumpedin the worm bin which is a frass generator on its own with thousands of insects. living and dying daily.

SpicySativa · Mar 13, 2013

Back when I owned a chameleon, I used to go through a lot of crickets. Those things crank out a lot of shit...

I bet what your paying for is waste from a reptile food producer/distributor. If you really want it, cut the middle man and hit up your local reptile shop. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to hook you up with some free cricket shit if your willing to scoop it up for them...

Not for me....

wintergreens · Mar 19, 2013

I just top dressed my veg garden with 50# of mealworm frass. Also use it in act brews. I love the pics Babombeez!

Babombeez · Mar 20, 2013

wintergreens said:
I just top dressed my veg garden with 50# of mealworm frass. Also use it in act brews. I love the pics Babombeez!

Hell yeah, wintergreens! Make sure to use some gypsum with the frass, since the frass tends to be high in magnesium and low in calcium. You would also benefit from using a readily assimilable source of Nitrogen, such as a fish emulsion/hydrolysate.

~beez

wintergreens · Mar 20, 2013

Good note, only one add in this year! I mix in rabbit, composted chicken manue, ewc, bat guano and other. I have brewed kelp, guano ACT's for the last 2 years for everything including my med garden. Love organic growing.

Babombeez · Mar 20, 2013

I love my ACTs!!!! The babies love it too! Feed the biology in the soil!!! Sounds like a nice mix...

~beez

Hash Man · Mar 20, 2013

Chiten

Chiten

ClackamasCootz said:
Is this from Black Soldier Flies (BSF) by any chance?

BTW - Crab, Shrimp and Lobster contain Chitin at high levels. Plus you pick-up 96% Calcium Carbonate - same compound as Oyster shell powder & Calcite Lime

>>shrug<<

Hey hey, here is a qoute from organic nutrients website regrading the difference between the chiten... The insect frass chiten doesnt need to be composted because its not calcified like the crustatian chitin.

Q: What makes insect Chitin better than crustacean Chitin?

A: In simple terms, insect chitin is the form used by plants in nature. Crustacean chitin is trapped in the calcified shell. In order to get the chitin from inside the calcified shell, it must be boiled in potassium hydroxide (certainly not organic). On the other hand, the chitin in insect frass is broken down by the plant naturally, by the chitinase enzyme produced by the plants own immune-response-system. That’s organic!

All you guys that had bad results- please post and tell me what brand it was. I have tried 2 sources and they were not the same AT ALL... Always ask for a nutrient analysis and make sure it has what you need. The "Insect Frass" is awesome if I do say so myself; although i wont be using it as a stand alone, I am going to be using a ton of it. From the manufacturers I have conversed with I have come to the following conclusion; its either one or more of the following; mealworms, superworms, slikworms. Someone please school me because I am trying to understand this better... And um, buy more than 5 lbs and you can find some killer deals... lol dont pay 14 bucks an lb...

Babombeez · Mar 20, 2013

MrSterling said:
Hey all natural. I use a bit of meal worm frass in my gardening. It seems to suppress fungal gnats completely is my only documentable experience. It also goes into my soil in small portions. I need to find someone to email regarding the amount of microbe life it contains.

Attached you will find the amount of microbial life that Insect Frass from Organic Nutrients contains. Until recently, I used to use frass from my own mealworms, but its supply was very limited. Now I actually have had better results using Organic Nutrients' frass, which I believe comes from beetles. Check out how much microbial life this stuff contains!!! I was able to acquire this information from Organic Nutrients:

Hash Man said:
Hey hey, here is a qoute from organic nutrients website regrading the difference between the chiten... The insect frass chiten doesnt need to be composted because its not calcified like the crustatian chitin.

Q: What makes insect Chitin better than crustacean Chitin?

A: In simple terms, insect chitin is the form used by plants in nature. Crustacean chitin is trapped in the calcified shell. In order to get the chitin from inside the calcified shell, it must be boiled in potassium hydroxide (certainly not organic). On the other hand, the chitin in insect frass is broken down by the plant naturally, by the chitinase enzyme produced by the plants own immune-response-system. That’s organic!

All you guys that had bad results- please post and tell me what brand it was. I have tried 2 sources and they were not the same AT ALL... Always ask for a nutrient analysis and make sure it has what you need. The "Insect Frass" is awesome if I do say so myself; although i wont be using it as a stand alone, I am going to be using a ton of it. From the manufacturers I have conversed with I have come to the following conclusion; its either one or more of the following; mealworms, superworms, slikworms. Someone please school me because I am trying to understand this better... And um, buy more than 5 lbs and you can find some killer deals... lol dont pay 14 bucks an lb...

Great post about the chitin, Hash Man! I do not use the Insect Frass as a stand alone either, and they don't suggest that it is a stand-alone product. They encourage the use of gypsum, or cal carb, since the frass is low in calcium and high in magnesium. Also, they suggest to use a source high in soluble/readily assimilable Nitrogen, such as a fish hydrolysate (fish emulsion). Organic Nutrients is actually coming out with a new fish hydolysate product that KICKS ASS! And yeah, the more you buy the better the deal, duh!

AND yes, for all the people hating on frass, what BRAND was it? PLEASE POST!

~beez

hbj1891 · Mar 22, 2013

ive seen this on the shelf a few times and i love my teas...gonna get some next time im there. i mean, once its in the soil, as long as your recycling, it will break down and be useful eventually just like if you composted it right?? beez, do you think it is best used only in teas?? how much would you put in 5 gal brewer??or do you also mix it in the soil??

why is this better than the stump tea or the myco madness or the ewc:humus tea or alfalfa tea or a combo of them?? what does this provide that they do not??

speaking of which do you organic guys use powdered microbe supplements like great white, myco madness or others?? ive been putting 1/4 to 1/2 strength in my teas...

Babombeez · Mar 22, 2013

hbj1891 said:
ive seen this on the shelf a few times and i love my teas...gonna get some next time im there. i mean, once its in the soil, as long as your recycling, it will break down and be useful eventually just like if you composted it right?? beez, do you think it is best used only in teas?? how much would you put in 5 gal brewer??or do you also mix it in the soil??

why is this better than the stump tea or the myco madness or the ewc:humus tea or alfalfa tea or a combo of them?? what does this provide that they do not??

speaking of which do you organic guys use powdered microbe supplements like great white, myco madness or others?? ive been putting 1/4 to 1/2 strength in my teas...

The Insect Frass is beneficial both in root drench (or aerated tea), top-dressing, and pre-mixing. The frass root drench is good because it provides a quick super boost of microbes (I mean, look at those numbers on the chart--- trillions!) and soluble and insoluble nutrients that must be first broken down by (nitrifying) bacteria and then absorbed by the roots/plants. If you want readily available nitrogen, use a high N codfish hydrolysate. Make sure when applying frass that you also include a calcium source, such as Gypsum or Calcium Carbonate (Xtreme Gardening is a good one, kind of expensive though). I would recommend pre-mixing gypsum into your soil, and then adding it as needed. You really can never add too much gypsum, it just leaches out. When making a frass tea, apparently the highest and most diverse microbial life occurs in the first hour, so you would want to add the Insect Frass 1 hour prior to administering tea to the plants. As far as dosage, I think Organic Nutrients says 2 tbsp/gallon for aerated tea, but maximum strength root drench is 1/2 cup/gallon!

Secondly, you can top-dress with frass, which will slowly leach into the soil, add beneficial microbes, and also add a chitin source that bolsters the plants' immune system. The chitinase enzyme is EXTREMELY effective against fungus gnats and harmful nematodes.

You can also pre-mix, as suggested above, but make sure to add in gypsum to your soil mix as well. When your plants look like they want some calcium or magnesium, you can hit them with CalMag+ or foliar spray with CalCarb.

The Insect Frass is also an excellent foliar spray, and it populates the leaf surface with beneficial microbes making it highly effective against Powdery Mildew.

Just experiment! Any questions feel free to ask!

~beez

bigshrimp · Mar 23, 2013

Put it in the soil or run it through the worm bin. Poo and dead bugs need to be decomposed before applying to plants.

Making teas and foliaring seems like it could transmit pathogens easily.

unshady grove · Mar 23, 2013

I own a garden shop that sells frass to many customers, therefore I'm lucky enough to get the feedback from many customers I respect as gardeners. I have quite frankly been pretty impressed with the results I had heard about, most significantly a blow to fungus gnat populations (note:I did not spell elimination), and believe it or not shorter flowering times-both two of the company's claims. I now currently use it as part of my organic arsenal, mostly as a AACT ingredient with positive results. I still see fungus gnats in my garden, but I do not inhale them, haha. I have not noticed the same surprising results of 4-7 day earlier finishing times some of my customers/friends have experienced, yet I have not done a comprehensive test w that being the only variable changed from a control. I also add it to the custom soil I make as a minor ingredient/additive. I do so believe I believe in diversification of amendments in my soil.

hbj1891 · Mar 23, 2013

unshady grove said:
I own a garden shop that sells frass to many customers, therefore I'm lucky enough to get the feedback from many customers I respect as gardeners. I have quite frankly been pretty impressed with the results I had heard about, most significantly a blow to fungus gnat populations (note:I did not spell elimination), and believe it or not shorter flowering times-both two of the company's claims. I now currently use it as part of my organic arsenal, mostly as a AACT ingredient with positive results. I still see fungus gnats in my garden, but I do not inhale them, haha. I have not noticed the same surprising results of 4-7 day earlier finishing times some of my customers/friends have experienced, yet I have not done a comprehensive test w that being the only variable changed from a control. I also add it to the custom soil I make as a minor ingredient/additive. I do so believe I believe in diversification of amendments in my soil.

hmm.

BugJar · Mar 24, 2013

I have heard about frass carrying some nasty buggers.

I will continue to avoid it

Insect Frass

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