Flavor Smell in Hydro vs Soil

growteam · Jan 8, 2015

Firstly I dont want to start a debate here about ideology. This isnt a organic vs hydro thread. This is a science and reality thread.

I watched the video "Himalaya Gold - Green House Grow Sessions" on youtube. Its a greenhouse seeds video.

They do a side by side. Soil plant. Hydro plant. Start to finish.

At the end of the video they do a cannabinoid and terpene analysis from each of the two plants. In this case the hydroponics plant had 7 terpenes available. The soil plant had 5. Here is the comparison for those that dont want to watch the video

Soil
a-pinene = 79%
isopulegol = 0.59%
Guaiol = 0.34%
dihydrojasmine = 0.32%
(1s)trans-pinane = 0.30%

Hydro
B-pinene = 31.36%
A-pinene = 27.91%
Myrecene = 21.56%
a-Humulene = 3.17%
isopulegol = .62%
(1s)trans-pinane = 0.46%
ocimene = 0.35%

So whats the reason for this? Theories?

Devilman · Jan 8, 2015

Interesting, would love to see this kind of test / comparison done a few more times, also with different strains etc...

I find it rather odd that considering the only difference between the 2 is the growing medium / setup, the have such vastly vastly differing terpene profiles. They only have 1 common terpene, even though they are the same plants?

I wonder if terpenes (or the chemical compounds that eventually come together to make terpenes) can "degrade" or "break down" into other substances / terpenes, maybe that would explain why the exact same plant has entirely different terpenes in soil vs hydro?!

Meison · Jan 8, 2015

Hydro is superior for my taste, every one of my buddies switched to hydro cause of me and they love it. None are going back to soil.

If you have a nice and controlled room, you will get a super nice smell! And if fed right and flushed properly the taste is also amazing!! IMO

btw, that vid you mention is great. They use rockwool vs soil in the pots.

genedigger · Jan 8, 2015

what strain was it that they tested?id have to agree that 1 test is not a difinitive answer.knowing what i know about greenhouse seed co. they prob tested a strain that they have bred and grown for generations in hydro which is a biased result imo.also that has got to be the smallest list of terpenes ive ever seen tested for in a plant there are alot more terpenes in the plant.i grow organic and i can get my hands on some hydro that looks ten times better than my stash and everytime i let folks try them side by side they say mine taste ten times better and its the same strains too.has anyone ever tried hydro grown veggies verses organic?fuck weed try food thats been done both ways and tell me what you think.

growteam · Jan 8, 2015

@devilman. Vastly different terpene profiles. Yea your thinking the same thoughts as me. Those are the answers I would love to have! Even working theories? Im super stumped. Not because hydro was more robust but because of the huge difference soil and hydro on the same clone can make. The strain was "Himalaya Gold "

@Meison Dont forget a proper dry cure process brother. Those terpenes evaporate so fast under shit conditions.

@genedigger , Hey now brother. We dont want a debate here. I watched a penn and teller episode. they did a "organic taste test" . Nobody could tell which was organic. It didnt taste better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs

Im a hydro guy. But in my experience if the grower knows what he or she is doing I could never tell how it was grown. A good grower grows good weed. I love good weed. Hydro or soil.

growteam · Jan 8, 2015

I wish I could edit.

I did want to add that Greenhouse seeds did LOTS of those videos. With all their strains. Sometimes the soil had a more robust terpene profile. Sometimes the hydro did. So just throwing that in there for the people that might think this is just a single test that was done.

kak1963 · Jan 9, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IoNQHMFLk lets see if this works its funny and cool info..

Mad Lab · Jan 18, 2015

I feel it's too difficult to compare any soil vs hydro sample mostly because you'd have to have a similar ratio of each nutrients with your soil mix and hydro nutrients and that's a hard task to accomplish, leaving the only true difference between the tests being different levels of microbial life and osmosis.

Mad Lab · Jan 18, 2015

That being said I have yet to run into an indoor soil grower running the same genetics and pheno as I to prefer their soil to my hydro or aero product in terms of (obviously yield)terepene or flavenoid profiles. That may also be their skill level as a cultivator. Not saying I will not meet someone to show me up eventually, in fact, I'd love to see it.

I prefer drain to waste high pressure aeroponics or drain to waste rockwool.

growteam · Jan 18, 2015

Mad Lab said:
That being said I have yet to run into an indoor soil grower running the same genetics and pheno as I to prefer their soil to my hydro or aero product in terms of (obviously yield)terepene or flavenoid profiles. That may also be their skill level as a cultivator. Not saying I will not meet someone to show me up eventually, in fact, I'd love to see it.

I prefer drain to waste high pressure aeroponics or drain to waste rockwool.

Did you notice any difference at all between your friends soil plant and your hydro one? With the high or medical relief?

Technically with a different terpene profile the high should be different.

vostok · Jan 18, 2015

I prefer the soil grow,

its a preferential thing,

with again,

way to many variables

Mad Lab · Jan 18, 2015

I do see differences between soil and hydro samples and tests show different terpene profiles. But my point being I am not sure how much these differences are because of hydro vs soil. I believe it is nearly impossible to have two test subjects with the different mediums receiving the same ratio of nutrients to really get an accurate test. Soil should be different because the microbial life is most likely doing different things for your plant, and hydro different because its receiving more osmosis, or oxygen exchange at the roots.

Setting science aside, realizing doing side by side tests with soil and hydro isn't likely a controlled test, yes the high will be different which can be attributed to different terpene profiles and depending on the patient ether one could be better for them.

I have been working alot with Gorilla Glue #4 and I have alot of buddies trying to show up my high pressure aero glue with their soil. I really enjoy both theirs and mine, and get a different experience myself from both. I prefer the taste of the hydro or aero BUT I enjoy the high of the soil more.

Just as you said, most people arn't really "addicted" so to speak to THC as much as they are comfortable with certain terpene profiles. A nice blend of mercene and limonene are my favorite. Love that sour citrus.

Weird · Jan 18, 2015

its very simple from an experiential lens, which can easily be translated to science

Now let me preface the example assumes optimal primary and secondary metabolite production (relative to methodology).

I have found that when I grow with NPK regardless of methodology (limited set of macro/micro nutrients, limited or no microbiology) that taste and smell is far more narrow.

This is a direct reflection of the narrow set of inputs

Conversely, when I vary the range of organic matter and microbiology, the taste and smell are effected, and the more diverse the organic matter and microbiology the more robust and dynamic those tastes and smells are.

Side by side this means that the more organic inputs and microbiological interactions the more over tones and undertones the plant puts out

Instead of one sharp flavor or smell (which to me at this point is gross and artificial) there is a bouquet of smells and flavors.

Once again this is a reflection of the wide set of inputs that are being used.

From a scientific viewpoint, the real mappings between between what is introduced to the plant and how it exactly metabolized are not fully understood from an absolutely granular standpoint.

We understand underlying mechanisms but we have just in the last few decades have even had the capacity to see yet understand microbiology.

is is very much the "quantum physics" of the agro economy

It is easy to understand it scientifically if you control exactly what is introduced to the plant and results are measured, and this is why from an NPK standpoint science seems to have a concrete understanding.

And if you like to limit your relationship with this plant then I suggest you continue to wait on science and other peoples theories to deliver up your understanding, instead of creating your own real world experience in which you do your own scientific analysis

growteam · Jan 18, 2015

Ok so let me put this example on the table. And ask a question.

Hydro grow.
Micro and macro feed only. Optimal levels. Nothings overdone or underdone. I know sulfur is one nutrient that affects terpene.

Question: Is there an additive that can be put into a the res of a hydro grow, that IS NOT a MICRO or MACRO, but will add terpenes to the plant once tested? Because it appears to be happening in the soil grows. Also in my experience when I added "Richy Rich" (I knew it as heizenbergs tea) tea to my res the taste of the buds was noticeably different. Almost like an earthy manure undertone in combination with the strong citrus aroma that was always there.

Weird · Jan 19, 2015

well terpinator (and potentially other products) is supposed to do just that but parallel are companies offering organic hydroponic solutions to the equation as well

terpinator is replicating the results a complete balanced natural system as do organic hydroponic solutions

transitional gardening applies as well (hybrid of inorganic and organic methodologies) and might be the quickest way to understand causation from a scientific methodology

I think it make for superior hydro regardless

dreams4dreamin · Jan 19, 2015

Wouldnt you think soil plants have a stronger terpen volume vs hydro being that soil is more natural? Either way, it would be a good test to run and see who is the true winner.

browntrout · Jan 19, 2015

I think I remember the Greenhouse seed guys doing a grow report on youtube that said soil had more terps than hydro. Check it out.

I have had many samples of each and can say hydro tends to lose its smell quicker as well as have more "targeted" terps rather than complex terpene profiles in which outdoor and soil samples have.

BT

growteam · Jan 19, 2015

Weird said:
well terpinator (and potentially other products) is supposed to do just that but parallel are companies offering organic hydroponic solutions to the equation as well

terpinator is replicating the results a complete balanced natural system as do organic hydroponic solutions

transitional gardening applies as well (hybrid of inorganic and organic methodologies) and might be the quickest way to understand causation from a scientific methodology

I think it make for superior hydro regardless

Terpinator looks like its potassium sulfate. npk 0-0-4.
http://www.hhydro.com/files/MSDS/Terpinator_MSDS.pdf

So potassium and sulfur.

@dreams4dreamin. I would have assumed the same. But when I saw the greenhouse seed video, it makes me wonder. I think as people stated above. "Its complicated" and not always a clear winner.
@browntrout. I would love to see some studies that soil produces more complex terpene profiles. The greenhouse seed videos sometimes have hydro as more complex like the example in my initial post. Sometimes soil does. I wouldnt say there is a consistent outcome. Based solely on their videos. I haven't tested anything personally. And I dont know anyone that made a comparison neither.

HUGE · Jan 19, 2015

Interesting

Mad Lab · Jan 19, 2015

Nicely put Weird, thank you.

Flavor Smell in Hydro vs Soil

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