By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

On the osmocote note, I took a few clones straight from 9oz cups and put them straight into 12/12 in 1 gal of promix in fabric nursery pots) and 1 tbs of osmocote plus (6 month) and 2.5 weeks later they look super pretty just getting tap water and pretty much staying wet I might hit them with a little flouro nova bloom or pure blend bloom (gotta use all that stuff up so I can be stricktly cheap nutes, for some reason that makes it more fun) just to supplement here and there but no ph ing just letting em rip to see how easy it can be. Of course, my plants always look great until like week 5 and then it all goes to hell!

Dyna grow is generally better for hydro grows. Go with Jacks or peters for soil.

overmyhead said:

how much of the jacks / calcnit are you using? Everyone has a different number and I thought I had a bead on it until I noticed some little brown spots on some fan leaves 4 weeks into 12/12. I've been using 3g jacks / peters and 1.5g calcnit - which I think is something I saw in one of your posts on another board. Thanks! PS, I'm in straight bcuzz coco masonry tub beds with blumats no other additives. Also, how much bleach?

Click to expand...

I am running about 70% of the recommended dose...EC about 1.5 in flower...in veg I run EC 1-1.2

I don't remember the exact gram weight but I will get it tomorrow and let you know. The ratio should be 1/.66 5/12/26-CaN. So I definitely recommend you up the Calcium Nitrate although my experience with cutting it ended up with yellowing in general and no spots.

Depending on your EC I would probably just up the CaN to 2 grams...although at 4 weeks in the brown spots probably will not clear up. Are the effected leaves new growth or old? Also, what is your temp and humidity...my feeling is that if you get these out of whack you end up with symptoms that can be mistaken for deficiencies...not that yours is out of whack.

I run 1 ml bleach per 10 gallons of water...my res lasts me 3 days and I do that only the day I fill it, the other 2 I leave it alone.

edit...i am currently running 2.5 grams per gal 5-12-26 and 1.7 grams of CaNitrate.

staff11 said:

Dyna grow is generally better for hydro grows. Go with Jacks or peters for soil.

Click to expand...

Why would use Jacks or Peters Hydroponic formulations in soil?

overmyhead said:

On the osmocote note, I took a few clones straight from 9oz cups and put them straight into 12/12 in 1 gal of promix in fabric nursery pots) and 1 tbs of osmocote plus (6 month) and 2.5 weeks later they look super pretty just getting tap water and pretty much staying wet I might hit them with a little flouro nova bloom or pure blend bloom (gotta use all that stuff up so I can be stricktly cheap nutes, for some reason that makes it more fun) just to supplement here and there but no ph ing just letting em rip to see how easy it can be. Of course, my plants always look great until like week 5 and then it all goes to hell!

Click to expand...

That's awesome. Love to hear it. You can supplement the OC+ with a bottle, but be careful...I would perhaps start with once a week.

YosemiteSam said:

I am running about 70% of the recommended dose...EC about 1.5 in flower...in veg I run EC 1-1.2

I don't remember the exact gram weight but I will get it tomorrow and let you know. The ratio should be 1/.66 5/12/26-CaN. So I definitely recommend you up the Calcium Nitrate although my experience with cutting it ended up with yellowing in general and no spots.

Depending on your EC I would probably just up the CaN to 2 grams...although at 4 weeks in the brown spots probably will not clear up. Are the effected leaves new growth or old? Also, what is your temp and humidity...my feeling is that if you get these out of whack you end up with symptoms that can be mistaken for deficiencies...not that yours is out of whack.

I run 1 ml bleach per 10 gallons of water...my res lasts me 3 days and I do that only the day I fill it, the other 2 I leave it alone.

edit...i am currently running 2.5 grams per gal 5-12-26 and 1.7 grams of CaNitrate.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response. Ok, so I need to back off the main nute and up the calcnit.

My environment is all over the map, sort of like it is outside but never in any extremes. For instance, we had some real high humidity and I just let my rh hover in the high 60's for a couple weeks because the dehu couldn't keep up and created tons of heat, so I just upped the air movement on the canopy and underneath to hold any mold at bay.

Carl Carlson said:

That's awesome. Love to hear it. You can supplement the OC+ with a bottle, but be careful...I would perhaps start with once a week.

Click to expand...

Right, the only reason I was thinking about it is that I used less OC+ than you other guys are using I think. The reason I am only using 1 tbsp per gallon of soil is that they are sog with litteraly no veg time in the soil. In hind sight I probably should've just used the full amount and had some left in the soil but like I said, I've got lots of crap to get rid of so I can completely simplify my life.

you don't necessarily have to run the 5-12-26 lower...3 is less than full strength and is not going to be out of line...it could be better for you...just watch the plants.

but do correct the ratios.

i tend to run lower ECs than most. i believe it improves the quality of the buds...although if pressed i do not have any scientific proof of that. other people tend to run higher to the point of actually burning the tips trying to squeeze every last gram out of the plants.

as long as you get the ratios right...and assuming these are in fact, balanced ratios then you can play around with EC until you find what works best based on your conditions and goals.

YosemiteSam said:

you don't necessarily have to run the 5-12-26 lower...3 is less than full strength and is not going to be out of line...it could be better for you...just watch the plants.

but do correct the ratios.

i tend to run lower ECs than most. i believe it improves the quality of the buds...although if pressed i do not have any scientific proof of that. other people tend to run higher to the point of actually burning the tips trying to squeeze every last gram out of the plants.

as long as you get the ratios right...and assuming these are in fact, balanced ratios then you can play around with EC until you find what works best based on your conditions and goals.

Click to expand...

Well, as a matter of fact, the tips are slightly burnt on some of the older leaves so I am going to water things down for a while (except for the calcium.) My EC is right at 1.5 though and always has been. Do you think that pushing it to that point results in overal gains - for instance, right now I'm water curing or making oil so tast isn't really a big deal right now.

What i think, and others will no doubt disagree, is that burnt tips can be an overfert situation but probably not at 1.5. What is more likely is that your environmental conditions are, or are sometimes, such that the stomata on your plants do not stay open all of the time...which means that Ca has a hard time translocating in your plants causing the "burnt" tips.

I think this formula is good enough that you can run it anywhere from 1.2 to 1.8 with no bad effect. If there are issues with the plants I would start looking at improving the environment.

As to whether you can push the plants or not that is a tough one. I think you can definitely get more mass on the plants by pushing it a little. But I think (without definitive proof) that doing so could hurt your trichome production...so you might gain one way and lose a little another.

In your situation I would keep it between 1.5 and 1.8.

Hope that made some sense.

You could be on to something. Maybe I need to put my sonic bloom back in there, I used that music on my first grow ever and had great success - I started to hear that music in my head though, no joke.

maybe, feed-water-feed......
cal-nit @ 3g/gal, tank 1. 5-1x-2x water-soluble, tank 2. fed separately....
foliar feed mag sulf @ wks 1-2 flower....
mkp @ 2g/gal @ wks 1-2 for elongation....
k-sulf during wks 3-4 for fruit-set @ 1g/gal ........
trace elements (fe, mn, cu, b) separately than npk-ca-mg, 1x wk..........
foliar & feed k-si @ 2.5ml/l (foliar) 2.5-5ml/gallon @ 1x wk.....
input ph @ 5.0-5.5 .............

*mistress* said:

maybe, feed-water-feed......
cal-nit @ 3g/gal, tank 1. 5-1x-2x water-soluble, tank 2. fed separately....
foliar feed mag sulf @ wks 1-2 flower....
mkp @ 2g/gal @ wks 1-2 for elongation....
k-sulf during wks 3-4 for fruit-set @ 1g/gal ........
trace elements (fe, mn, cu, b) separately than npk-ca-mg, 1x wk..........
foliar & feed k-si @ 2.5ml/l (foliar) 2.5-5ml/gallon @ 1x wk.....
input ph @ 5.0-5.5 .............

Click to expand...

Thank you - that all sounds great but might just be a little more than I can personally handle right now - everything is staggared at 2-3 week intervals and I really can't complicate things any more. Several folks having good success with just the peters / jacks and calnit, I think I just need to ride it out and see how things end up and adjust from there. I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that I admire your thoughtfulness and the advice that you give!

overmyhead said:

Thank you - that all sounds great but might just be a little more than I can personally handle right now - everything is staggared at 2-3 week intervals and I really can't complicate things any more. Several folks having good success with just the peters / jacks and calnit, I think I just need to ride it out and see how things end up and adjust from there. I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that I admire your thoughtfulness and the advice that you give!

Click to expand...

member overmyhead....
feeding cal-nit separately doable w/in just the jax / cal-n03 regime... maybe try keep 5-1x-2x -type basic 'hidroponic' formulas @ same amount. for example, if measure 3-5 grams per gallon of 5-12-26, measure 3-5 grams of cal nit8.

calcium is a macro-nutrient..... the plant may require the same or more amount of cal as nitrogen.... especially during flower/fruiting....
3 grams cal nit8 should = ~ 119n (ppm) - 151cal (ppm).... 3 grams of 5-1x-2x type water soluble adds ~40 more ppms of n, totaling ~159 nit8 nitrogen & the ^ 151 ppm cal...

preferably fed separate, from different tanks..... but, if use same tank, mix 5-12-26-type 1st, & let fully dissolve for 15-20mins.... then add cal-nit8.... although, they can be dissolved in separate tanks, then mixed together, after each tank fully dissolved.

mybe, foliar feeding mag sulf (ep som salts) during 1st 1-2 wks flower very simple. @ 5-10g / liter.....

foliar feeding cal-nit8 @ 5-10 g / liter also help keep cal available during 1st wks of flower.... additional iron may be required, too....

for liquid supplement that contain all of these: tek-na-fl0ra mag-i-cal.... it is liquid, but has 2 forms of calcium, 2 forms of iron, & mag.... very small amount of nit8 n.... not as concentrrated as water-solubles, but does not require 2-3 different bags to get cal, mag & fe....

hope this helps

*edit*
maybe mg-sulf & cal-nit8 sprayed seperately.... only 1x/wk. maybe when day begins.....foliar very weak. if too much, may coat leaf so less gas exchange (film, residue)...... 1/2 drop detergent help for break surface tension (surfacant), maybe helps nutrients get thru.... shake well.... maybe, ph 6.2-6.5

mag.!.cal maybe possible to foliar, too. if do calc, it seem diluted (supplement).... reservoir & foliar....

gypsum only partially soluble, not fully. may effect media ph.... ca-nitr8 very water soluble. though crf's maybe help, @ very small amount.....

b.e.r. spray..... try it! should work...... only 1x/wk.... foliar can build up on stomata..... though reproductive organs can also draw in nutrients, maybe same as leaf....

begining of fruit/flower set (day 1-30 flower)seem stage in cycle where planty requires larger amount of ca-mg-fe.....

more available oxygen in media may help fe uptake.... over-watering & root anaerobic conditions, may not help fe uptake. the deficiencies of these 3 similar. mag mobile.... ca & fe not very mobile/soluble...... 'metals'...... so, maybe feed seperate to give that element soluble conditions w/ no antagonisms or competing cations, best ph, etc...........

*mistress* said:

member overmyhead....
feeding cal-nit separately doable w/in just the jax / cal-n03 regime... maybe try keep 5-1x-2x -type basic 'hidroponic' formulas @ same amount. for example, if measure 3-5 grams per gallon of 5-12-26, measure 3-5 grams of cal nit8.

calcium is a macro-nutrient..... the plant may require the same or more amount of cal as nitrogen.... especially during flower/fruiting....
3 grams cal nit8 should = ~ 119n (ppm) - 151cal (ppm).... 3 grams of 5-1x-2x type water soluble adds ~40 more ppms of n, totaling ~159 nit8 nitrogen & the ^ 151 ppm cal...

preferably fed separate, from different tanks..... but, if use same tank, mix 5-12-26-type 1st, & let fully dissolve for 15-20mins.... then add cal-nit8.... although, they can be dissolved in separate tanks, then mixed together, after each tank fully dissolved.

mkp, k-sulf & k-si can be supplemented, but not necessary.

foliar feeding mag sulf (ep som salts) during 1st 1-2 wks flower very simple. @ 5-10g / liter..... foliar feeding cal-nit8 @
5-10 g / liter also help keep cal available during 1st wks of flower.... additional iron may be required, too....

for liquid supplement that contain all of these: tek-na-fl0ra mag-i-cal.... it is liquid, but has 2 forms of calcium, 2 forms of iron, & mag.... very small amount of nit8 n.... not as concentrrated as water-solubles, but does not require 2-3 different bags to get cal, mag & fe....

hope this helps

Click to expand...

i know, i'm just being lazy, got three stages in tent, job , fam etc etc. I started using the peteres b/c others were using w/ minimal feeding, no flush and getting good results, that works for me since I've got 1 rez w 3 stages, 3 weeks between each one. I have been using epsom salts off and on in my rez. Only foliar has been sonic bloom in first couple weeks of 12/12. I'll order the magical.What about blossom end rot spray for tomatoes? I started to order magical basded on another thread, u foliar feed w that or just put in rez? What do you think about just mixing garden gypsum in coco for a back up ca source and feeding epsom from rez? Myabe throw a rusty nail in there for Fe? How about tomatoe blossom spray w ca (from Ca Chloride) iron etc? I think I said this earlier but I'm in straight atami (bag) coco watering w blumats.

@mistress. I ordered magical, but for the benefit of all here - would you foliar with the calcnit and epsom salt at the same time or on separate days?

*mistress* said:

member overmyhead....
feeding cal-nit separately doable w/in just the jax / cal-n03 regime... maybe try keep 5-1x-2x -type basic 'hidroponic' formulas @ same amount. for example, if measure 3-5 grams per gallon of 5-12-26, measure 3-5 grams of cal nit8.

calcium is a macro-nutrient..... the plant may require the same or more amount of cal as nitrogen.... especially during flower/fruiting....
3 grams cal nit8 should = ~ 119n (ppm) - 151cal (ppm).... 3 grams of 5-1x-2x type water soluble adds ~40 more ppms of n, totaling ~159 nit8 nitrogen & the ^ 151 ppm cal...

preferably fed separate, from different tanks..... but, if use same tank, mix 5-12-26-type 1st, & let fully dissolve for 15-20mins.... then add cal-nit8.... although, they can be dissolved in separate tanks, then mixed together, after each tank fully dissolved.

mkp, k-sulf & k-si can be supplemented, but not necessary.

foliar feeding mag sulf (ep som salts) during 1st 1-2 wks flower very simple. @ 5-10g / liter..... foliar feeding cal-nit8 @
5-10 g / liter also help keep cal available during 1st wks of flower.... additional iron may be required, too....

for liquid supplement that contain all of these: tek-na-fl0ra mag-i-cal.... it is liquid, but has 2 forms of calcium, 2 forms of iron, & mag.... very small amount of nit8 n.... not as concentrrated as water-solubles, but does not require 2-3 different bags to get cal, mag & fe....

hope this helps

Click to expand...

Well, to cut down on mixing etc I switched out my moms (time to get new ones anyway) and am doing them in
5 gal smart pot type pots
75% sunshine mix #4
25% pro mix bx
2 cups worm castings
1 cup biotone plus
5 oz (not weight) OC+ mixed throughout
some concentrated dried humic acid with micros
some crushed oyster shells
then a top layer of coco to keep the peat dust down

I plan to have straight water in the res and periodically handwater with liquid karma and pureblend pro (after a few months) to keep it interesting and use up stuff that I plan to not replace. Any ideas as to the shelf life of pureblend pro products? Hopefully I can keep up the same growth rates as I got in coco and use less water (= less work!)

just be careful in combining a water soluble fertilizer with the OC+. Start with a low EC and work your way up if need be. It's easy to go overboard and burn when combining the two.

Carl Carlson said:

just be careful in combining a water soluble fertilizer with the OC+. Start with a low EC and work your way up if need be. It's easy to go overboard and burn when combining the two.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I should have made a disclaimer - it'd be like 1 tsp per gallon or something, I figured that it would make it comperable to "real" soil. Also, I purposely went a little light on the OC+ i think.

oh I was talking about mixing the PBP with the OC+