What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

`

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=males+transformed+female

This was done over a decade ago, you can smoke the results, unlike an STS transformed female to male which cannot be smoked, not safe, not that you would want to smoke a male. Unless the male was transformed to female like you will do with ethephon as it will rapidly convert to Ethylene and be safe to smoke.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=males+transformed+female
-SamS



I have a single Male from an unknown Hindu kush like plant.


Has anybody tried using ethylene gas or ripe tomatoes to change the sexual expression of Male plant, and create female flowers?


Any more info before I give it a go?

============================
Sex reversal in the male plants of Cannabis sativa L. by ethyl hydrogen-l-propylphosphonate

Summary

Ethyl hydrogen-l-propylphosphonate causes retardation of growth, malformation of leaves, and formation of female and intersexual flowers when applied to male plants of Cannabis sativa L. in high concentrations (16,000 and 24,000 ppm).


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044328X72801685#ab1

------------------------------------
 

Cvh

Well-known member
Supermod
Has anybody tried using ethylene gas or ripe tomatoes to change the sexual expression of Male plant, and create female flowers.

Good question. Does anybody know if it would work if you use ripe tomatoes or other fruits as ethylene source? Sounds not completely unplausible.

What would a good practice be? Hang a banana peel on a branch?
 

Cvh

Well-known member
Supermod
I'd expect you'd get all males. Kind of like how you reverse a female to make fem seeds.

No. You don't get all males. (Theoretically) you'll get females too!

Below is a post I made in a similar thread.

----------------------

About the progeny of seeds made using reversed males.

When you cross a male (XY) to a reversed male (XY) you'll see in the offspring one female, 2 males and one 'super' male (YY). So the progency will not be 100% male.

Here is a Punnett Square I made using this website:
https://scienceprimer.com/punnett-square-calculator

picture.php
 

Cvh

Well-known member
Supermod
So the ratio would be 50/50 if YY is a functional female plant, fit for our purpose of breading.

No. 1/4 Female (XX), 2/4 male (XY) and 1/4 'super' male (YY).
And I don't think the YY are viable.

Regarding the idea of using ripe tomatoes as ethylene source?
I have a mtr square box made of cardboard sheets with Mylar glued to inside.
Has a Square plastic drum as base/Res, that is normally used for NFT.

I had considered turning off the exhaust fan and just have internal fan at 6v.
Had plans to fill the square base container with tomatoes.

Please try it and let us know how it went.
 

LostTribe

Well-known member
Premium user
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=males+transformed+female

This was done over a decade ago, you can smoke the results, unlike an STS transformed female to male which cannot be smoked, not safe, not that you would want to smoke a male. Unless the male was transformed to female like you will do with ethephon as it will rapidly convert to Ethylene and be safe to smoke.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=males+transformed+female
-SamS

Hey SamS!

I posted a similar thread a few months back in the breeder forum. What would you expect the progeny to turn out like?

I was wondering if the resulting males would have the same genetic make up of the original Male?

For the purpose of backing up a male in seed form.

Thanks!
LT
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Did you read the whole thread I posted?
BTW
XX is female 25% of the total seeds
XY is male 50% of the total seeds
YY is a super male 25% of the total seeds if they are all viable

To have all male XY seeds you just need to find a YY male and cross it times a normal XX female all progeny are XY MALES.


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1904276&postcount=35


XY = male
XX = female

Females turned to male have only XX so when bred to a normal female XX the result is always XX, female.

Males turned to female are XY so when bred to a normal male XY the results are half the seeds are XY male, and 25% are XX female, And 25% YY male if they can survive, because YY often do not.
Get it?
Sorry for any mix-up earlier.
-SamS

Try this , use XY x XY as the parents.
https://www.changbioscience.com/genetics/punnett.html


Punnett Square

XY x XY

......X Y
X XX XY
Y XY YY


Genotype Frequencies:
XX: 1 ( 25% ) female
XY: 2 ( 50% ) male
YY: 1 ( 25% ) male if it lives


-SamS

Y is not half a female, because X is also required.

Males only contain X.


Do the YY die before expression?




Thank you for all the input, now I can do what would otherwise be imposible, turn a single male plant into line for breeding.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=males+transformed+female
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cheers[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
If anybody has a copy of this book?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sex reversal in the male plants of Cannabis sativa L. by ethyl hydrogen-l-propylphosphonate[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
No because the seeds will be half genes from the male and half genes from the female mother. So the progeny will be a hybrid that is half from the father.

-SamS


Hey SamS!

I posted a similar thread a few months back in the breeder forum. What would you expect the progeny to turn out like?

I was wondering if the resulting males would have the same genetic make up of the original Male?

For the purpose of backing up a male in seed form.

Thanks!
LT
 

Jammal

Member
Why not do a normal backcross useing a male?
Pollinate your fav different female clone with the male ...

Pick a new mother with traits leaning towards the father side.
Polinate the new 50/50 mother with the male again ...

Now these seeds will be very much what you're looking for.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Why not do a normal backcross useing a male?
Pollinate your fav different female clone with the male ...

Pick a new mother with traits leaning towards the father side.
Polinate the new 50/50 mother with the male again ...

Now these seeds will be very much what you're looking for.

So the first generation is 50% mother and 50% father. Backcross with the original male (father) and you get 75% like father seeds but still 25% like the mother so it is not just like "the same genetic make up of the original father". No matter how many times you backcross you will not get a male with the same genetic make up of the original father, you can get close but not the same genetic make up of the original father. I know that the Cannabis seed industry says it is the same, but it is not.
An easy way to visualize is with paint, half white paint and half black paint, now take half of the grey paint and add an equal amount of white paint, repeat as many times as you like you will never get a truely white paint from the blending. There is always some black in it.

-SamS
 
Top