Big Soil Little Room, Recycled soil trial

I've just hopped on this thread. Its very interesting. Did the larger 400 gallon pots produce bigger plants? It probably says somewhere but I've got a lot to go on the reading still. I'm just wondering if its overkill or not.

heady blunts said:

holy shit this thread is epic! how have I never seen this?!

starting with page one see y'all in a couple days!

FE

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Thats what Im saying brother lol

I just found this thread pretty much same time you did I bet, since
it was brought back to the top of the thread list It caught my eye REAL QUICK.


actually... lol after reading only the FIRST PAGE, i went
and bought some 100gal smart pots

a 100gal smarty is about 38inch diameter, will fit nicely
in a 4x4 tent


IM DOING IT!!! lol

Time to trash the 5gal buckets lol... use them for veggies lol

Avinash.miles said:

great thread, actually worth reading front to back
thanks for sharing FE
why the abrupt end tho?

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And back to front this years outdoor grow i actually just started using ,Fresh grass clippings as a top dress. will see how fast it decomposes ??? possibly weekly fresh top dressing or bi weekly...

But so far i noticed moisture levels staying equal through out medium looking forward to actually seeing what it will do being its only water feed no teas
I am hoping to see 0 nitrogen loss throughout grow and up to chop 4 - 0.5 - 2 being i notices most soil tests high in P this could be a great way to have everything come together .. and for most soils dropping P ratio's to where there suppose to be
don't know until you try it

il19z8rn4li1 said:

a 100gal smarty is about 38inch diameter, will fit nicely
in a 4x4 tent


IM DOING IT!!! lol

Time to trash the 5gal buckets lol... use them for veggies lol

Click to expand...

nice! a former IC member organicterra did this a few years ago with good success. i've been thinking about it ever since!

Indoor No Till Deep Soil Bed

heady blunts said:

nice! a former IC member organicterra did this a few years ago with good success. i've been thinking about it ever since!

Indoor No Till Deep Soil Bed

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Nice, thanks for that link, ill check that baby out as well

This thread got my head spinning, its all the kinda stuff I LOVE TO READ ABOUT!!! Percentages and plants and molecules

Overall the 400 gallon produced well but the smaller pot fit under a light better. My formula is 1yd per light and is the best way to go. More dirt less work. Plants stay happy they dont need watered often. Easy to maintain when it has all it needs right there. I like pots that stay within the 4x4 area so it can take a 1k watt footprint. Easy to get 2lbs+ per light this way.

Respect,

FE

FE, I've got a few more questions. Do you feel the need or plan on amending the soil in between every cycle? Do you think with enough soil biology and worms you won't have to buy worm castings or amend the soil since theoretically your soil is never going to be depleted of nutrients? I read the whole thread and see you changed your grow to a bigger set up later on after the 400 gallon smart pots. New set ups very nice and clean.

Soil testing between runs would be my suggestion. Depending on how big you grow them you will need to amend a few things, cultivar dependent. Preferably i like to have another set of beds on wheels. At way when round one is done, roll in round 2. That way you can test, amend, innoculate, and let fallow. Have those transplanted and ready to go for round 3. All about that constant cycle. Even though you can plant right away, its good to allow time to fallow and rejuvenate, just like a seasonal break in nature would allow...


FE

Great design FE, just read this whole thread and must tip my hat.

As far as irritating, have you considered blumats?

I have soil beds and use their maxi version with drip tape with great results and even moisture distribution. I also use their sensors to set up the proper water tension when adjusting the blumats.

As for the soil analysis, you must measure your soil density. Soil labs don't take your soil density into account and it makes all the numbers much lower than what they really are, which is why cec numbers are so low on lab results. Our soil density is much lower than their standard, I believe MJ touched on this as well. Following the labs recommendations can lead to over applying micronutrients and that can have lasting problems.

Have you considered using a custom fertilizer blend that only adds what all the soils are low on as opposed to straight RO?

I created an excel program which takes your soil density and adjusts the lab results to show true levels. It gives recommendations and allows you to adjust the base saturation numbers and desired C:N ratio. You input your soil square footage and depth to amend and it spits out what you need to add to achieve your targets (although I only amend for the top 6" as to not apply too much and hurt the soil life). It's been working well for me, my targets are getting closer and closer with each test.

If you'd like I can run your numbers thru the program and post them for your consideration.

HD...long time no see. You wouldn't happen to have a pic of that blumat/drip tap setup would you?

You settle on a c:n ratio?

And lets say you are short on mg. Would you drip in epsom? Over the cycle...1/2 the cycle?

Hey Mj, I've been a little busy setting up a new spot but I've been keeping an eye on the aea thread when I have time here and there. I just noticed FE hasn't been to this thread since May. I set up some gavitas and wanted to see how they worked for him as I'm still waiting to finish the barn cooling system which is all geothermal.

My phone camera is garbage and I just dropped my Sony action cam in the lake wakeboarding but I'll try to use someone's phone to get a pic, I just circle the drip tape around the pot, it actually sits really well. Plus you can bury it and it's stated to last 25 yrs. Also it only opens after 2-3 PSI so you get even distribution.

yes I do the entire cycle, then I just watch how the soil is trending to see if I'm doing too much or too little. I amend to correct the top 6" of the soil and don't follow limits anymore, just correct the top 6" and when I take a soil sample I take a core sample all the way to the bottom of the pot, slowly each test is trending in the right direction.

I actually put a separate sheet on that excel program that tracks the trend of the soil and decides weather you should increase or decrease a nutrient and by what factor based on the target% of each soil. Like say between 10 soils if the average target of Mg is 50% then you would be recommended to double the Mg, however if any soil was over 100% it would recommend stopping Mg until that soil is back under the target. As of right now I'm only watering A little Ammonium sulfate, Magnesium nitrate, manganese sulfate, and Sodium molybdate. One thing that is clear, the level of Mo these fertilizer company's are using is way too low. I'm at 0.1 ppm and I think even that might be too low, but I like to slowly creep things up as I'm now seeing the effects of over applying micros.

I first used that organicalc website but unfortunately because it doesn't compensate for our light soil density it had me over amend a lot of micros. So some soils I'm slowly waiting for some micro levels to drop, but I began taking pics of the plants in any soil w a high level of this or that to document what symptoms the plants display, like one soil w high copper and zinc, the mid-aged to old growth has a twist right in the middle of the leaf.

As for C:N, I've been going with 30:1 for now but only because my soils C:N was so high, I don't want to put too much feather meal down. I wasn't digging the feather meal in as I wanted to go no-till but was dealing w stratification considering I would just have a 2" layer of feather meal on top of the soil. so I'm most likely going to bump it up to 20:1 for a target and just dig the feather meal in the top few inches by hand.

Also I'll email that program to you if you want

What brand of tape do you like?

I am torn between the drip ammonium sulfate vs load the soil with protein. I grew a tomato in a half yard with protein and N went too high. Had some blossom drop. I lean toward AS cause once you learn to see you are set

You got the email or should I get it to you at the other spot?

I like that 6 inch idea. Once you hit the numbers they seem to hold quite a while. So when you go over it seems like forever getting them down

What aea thread are you guys talking about?

What soil mix do you guys use.

I have a mix the was given to me by Dan Kitterage from Kempf. I guess it is what he came up with for a roof top garden. It wasn't to far off anything we are doing here at all.

FE keeping it real.

Timbuktu

Do you have that mix? It is hot...ec over 1 and holds there forever. I like the dry molasses and zeolite. But I lost the exact formula

FatherEarth said:

Soil testing between runs would be my suggestion. Depending on how big you grow them you will need to amend a few things, cultivar dependent. Preferably i like to have another set of beds on wheels. At way when round one is done, roll in round 2. That way you can test, amend, innoculate, and let fallow. Have those transplanted and ready to go for round 3. All about that constant cycle. Even though you can plant right away, its good to allow time to fallow and rejuvenate, just like a seasonal break in nature would allow...


FE

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Old post but thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I've noticed in no till you have to keep up on N. it's a lot of work digesting old roots, so right after harvest I give my pots fish, and pre harvest, when I normally feed just water, I might add a little molasses. I use both to feed those hard working microbes.

My re-amends are just light top dressings of neem meal and crab shells. Every other cycle I add a little oyster shell to the hole I transplant into.

I like alfalfa tea early after a transplant, as a foliar spray about twice per week and as a drench fed tea once a week or so. Alfalfa brings a lot of energy for hungry microbes.

I've found when you don't keep up with N, as well as you should, veg times get longer and yields go down. Alfalfa and neem meals provide lots of N, and work fast.

milkyjoe said:

What brand of tape do you like?



I am torn between the drip ammonium sulfate vs load the soil with protein. I grew a tomato in a half yard with protein and N went too high. Had some blossom drop. I lean toward AS cause once you learn to see you are set

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I'm using the irrigro tape, it works well, the only tape I've used so I can't compare to others. It's def better than the Blumat distribution drippers which clogged a lot and needed acid baths between runs.

I'm doing both lol, one thing I noticed about that feather meal, the clones planted didn't seem very happy, but now that they've developed, boy I'll say might be some of the best plants I've grown. But that may be because I wasn't digging it in, so the top layer of the soil C:N ratio was most likely very low. The main reason I'm doing AS is because I'm using Mg NO3 and I try to keep the ammonium at 20% of total Irrigated N, the reason I'm using MgNO3 is because my S levels are thru the roof and plus my C:N ratios were really high as I mentioned.

VortexPower420 said:

What aea thread are you guys talking about?

What soil mix do you guys use.

I have a mix the was given to me by Dan Kitterage from Kempf. I guess it is what he came up with for a roof top garden. It wasn't to far off anything we are doing here at all.

FE keeping it real.

Timbuktu

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It's in the advanced science section or whatever it's called.

This is my mix, but after a test it never comes out perfect, but nothing is over the targets I want so I usually mix, test, amend, plant.

1 part plant only local compost
1 part local top soil, more on the clay side rather than sandy
1 part peat moss
1 part rice hulls (1/3 the price of petite in my area)

To 1 cubic foot I add the following:

1.5 cups SRP
1 cup crushed oyster shell (only Calcium lime around here)
1/2 cup kelp
1/2 cup neem
1 cup crushed granite (only local rock source here)
1 cup basalt rock dust
1 cup feather meal ( local soil and compost tested at 30:1 C:N, I wanted that lower)
1 cup red lake DE (kind w ca bentonite)

I try to get everything I can from CHN, that guy is legit. Basalt I get from local rock dust website, I simply can't find local rock dust here in Mi, the crushed granite, oyster shell and DE I can get at TSC, people there think I have a lot of chickens.

milkyjoe said:

You got the email or should I get it to you at the other spot?

I like that 6 inch idea. Once you hit the numbers they seem to hold quite a while. So when you go over it seems like forever getting them down

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Hit me your email at the other spot I either can't get messages here yet or I'm just too stupid to figure out where they are lol.

You gotta hit 50 posts for pm to work

Techline is some of the best...