Effect of Amendments on Flavor in Cannabis

Yep, imo--it is all about making available in the grow medium quality and quantity of diverse minerals--so the plant will not need to "substitute" one for another.

Example--I like my coffee black, my wife likes hers with a splash of flavored cream--and when she runs out of her of her "flavored coffee cream" she will substitute whipped cream, followed by milk. When those run out, she goes without coffee and drinks water (which is complemented with a shitty ass disposition...gotta have coffee, lol).

I am sure plants will do the same, if they seek a specific mineral and are unable to find it--it is substituted (perhaps with or without a shitty as disposition...lol). It's not a quest to "overdose" the grow medium with _______________--rather it is a quest to "make it available".

Azomite, rock/glacial minerals are similar to sea minerals, but lack in diversity since they contain fewer sourced minerals (usually 60 or so--not the 90+).

Said differently--think about the worst tasting weed you ever smoked and ask yourself was the plant "nutritionally balanced" or was it "overdosed" with the same usual 17 essential elements that other growers restrict themselves to?

Of course there are enhancers (carbohydrates, amino acids, enzymes, etc) that assist a particular element to become "plant available"--but if that particular element is "unavailable" (not in the grow medium), then how does one expect it to ever be "plant available"? Said differently: It has got to be in the grow medium--before it can be "plant available".

There comes beneficial bacteries and myco-funghi that will made hard job for you..

DocTim420

It is far more complex than you are thinking.

One on level you are right and I have made this argument many times and I have researched the science behind it. Yes there is a definitive difference between NPK ion fed plants without microbiology in the rhizosphere, difference that effect the very composition of terpenes and other secondary metabolites which accounts for differences in tastes.

Understand the theories * (see below) behind why a plant produces secondary metabolites are still trying to be understood. To the below you need to also add considerations in a cultivars defenses against pathogens (these effect secondary metabolite production)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_secondary_metabolism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_defense_against_herbivory

These interactions are not direct and not all secondary metabolites react the same to the same environmental cue.

This is where it gets really complex and I will do my best to explain. I will start by narrowing the discussion to main cannabis secondary metabolites like cannabinoids, thc, terpenes and the expected constituents.

Each family of phytochemical such as terpenes or thc has its own particular cues it reacts to

so let's say you have a strain that puts out a specific terpene like b-myrcene and it also produces cannabinoid thc. THC may respond favorably to a specific type of UV where b-myrcene may not respond at all. Some inputs like N are counter intuitive to production of certain terpenes in other plants (a fair amount of research has been done on plants that have the same pythochemicals but are in legal production around the world)

This secondary metabolite to input reaction on certain classes of metabolites like terpenes can vary from cultivar to cultivar within a family of plants wherein other metabolites might react more consistently regardless of many inputs.

Some will be reduced in light of rich inputs especially in soil or even composition of soil.

These outputs of the plant are dynamic because they reflect responses to different cues

if one cue elicits a response for a secondary metabolite which deters insects it is not putting the same energies to primary growth and it effects the composition of the secondary metabolites because the different chemicals produced by the plant have different purposes which are triggered by different conditions.

Even type of soil can effect differences in specific chemicals produced

Ultimately local environment is the KEY factor because your ambient environment effects living soil, plant and all the life that can effect it.

If you grow living soil, your soil temps effect the class of microbiology in them unless you constantly maintain populations which in turn make or break certain cultivars

grow a tropical sativa in 65 degree soil and and a 20 degree night time temperature differential

grow a temperate high lands strain in the same conditions

then do the same thing in 80 degree soil and 90 + degree days and nominal temp differential with the same strains

do it both ionic and via microbiology

with living soil those variants will make or break a strain, with ionic feedings you can minimize some negative reactions to the environment but others will still be effected.

In a very simple example I find tropical strains love soil that is warm and full of pathogens that cause all kinds of havoc in strains from temperate climes. These strains that enjoy what would be considered unhealthy conditions to some (soil temps too high) trigger the plants that have evolved to grow in those conditions to put out secondary metabolites to sustain it in those conditions

That mold or mildew resistance in some strains could be a pythochemical being produce to protect the plant such as a specific terpene which at when it is all said and done is enjoyed as part of the final product.

At some point a plant's potential from a chemical standpoint is reliant on environment not just how much but of what type based on what inputs that triggered it. Light, temp, humidity, type of soil, insects and the list goes on all effect those variables.

The complexity and depth of chemicals produced by cannabis in a healthy living soil system that matches the preferred environment of the cultivar in question as far as I am concerned is optimal but at some point complexity and depth are matters of preference as well.


This is just a little something on terpenoids

Effect of Soil Nutrient on Production and Diversity of Volatile Terpenoids from Plants.

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC3474957


* FWIW these theories all have some observed basis just not conclusive which means they all may some weight in a chain of causation

Out Of The Quagmire Of Plant Defense Hypotheses

ABSTRACT Several hypotheses, mainly Optimal Defense (OD), Carbon:Nutrient Balance (CNB), Growth Rate (GR), and Growth-Differentiation Balance (GDB), have individually served as frameworks for investigating the patterns of plant defense against herbivores, in particular the pattern of constitutive defense. The predictions and tests of these hypotheses have been problematic for a variety of reasons and have led to considerable confusion about the state of the “theory of plant defense.” The primary contribution of the OD hypothesis is that it has served as the main framework for investigation of genotypic expression of plant defense, with the emphasis on allocation cost of defense. The primary contribution of the CNB hypothesis is that it has served as the main framework for investigation of how resources affect phenotypic expression of plant defense, often with studies concerned about allocation cost of defense. The primary contribution of the GR hypothesis is that it explains how intrinsic growth rate of plants shaped evolutionarily by resource availability affects defensive patterns. The primary contribution of the expanded GDB hypothesis is that it recognizes the constant physiological tradeoff between growth and differentiation at the cellular and tissue levels relative to the selective pressures of resource availability, including explicitly taking into account plant tolerance of damage by enemies. A clearer understanding of these hypotheses and what we have learned from investigations that use them can facilitate development of well-designed experiments that address the gaps in our knowledge of plant defense.

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Dog Star said:

There comes beneficial bacteries and myco-funghi that will made hard job for you..

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Yep...but here's the rub--is it better to continuously inoculate/add bacteria to your grow medium...or is it better to feed the microherd already there (previous inoculation)? Life (humans & bacteria) require these three things to live: Oxygen, water and food.

A grow medium with the correct air/water porosity provides adequate air and water--but what about food for the microherd? Some believe adding lava rocks to the grow medium will create condo-like complexes for the microherd to live and prosper, but why must one continually add more bacteria--including root feedings of compost tea and additional inoculations?

If the lava rock condos are brimming with an assortment of microherd (the neon "no vacancy" sign flashing on and off) then why the need to continuously replenish the population? In the outdoor world, repeated inoculations of specific microherd is not the norm.

Yep, lots of expensive products are being marketed to cannabis growers, that...in reality, offer very little to the big game.

Not lava rocks as much as bio-char. Biochar gives an excellent habitat for micros.

Dankwolf said:

high nitrogen bat guano has always add spicy/ peppery terps 100% of the time . i think it just renforced thet terp profile. Bat guano's high in nitrogen also seem to help bring out skunky terps but to a lesser exstent then the spicy/peppery terps.

I get sweeter terps in peat moss base soil vs coco base soil with same amendments/water source/ nutes and lights.

I have more writen down on subject but will have to get it from my notes. I have spent the majority of the past 10+ yeras playing with differnt mixes/soils/soiless/ lights/nutes and amendments trying to lock down witch amendments Help contribute to what terp profiles but my focus was on skunky terps so i dontvhave notes on all results .from what i have learned i would say it the spacific bicarbonate in mixes that effect flavour . ie the unbroken down un aviable /not aviable yet aspect that effects smell/taste hence lack of long term smell in current off the shelf offerings compered to years ago .

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Can you share this data? Please post up the terpene tests and corresponding amendment amounts used during the grow. Have you also had flavonoid testing done?