Is it lockout or burn?

I have seen a multitude of pictures showing leaves on plants that are in late flowering (mine are in the middle of week seven) which are yellowing. Now, I have that but the yellowing seems to be starting as spots and some of the upper leaves are showing rust colored splotches. In addition, there is the downward pointing claw shape associated with nute lockout but this plant has been flushed THOROUGHLY twice in the past week and a half, alternating with nutes, so I don't see how that could be the issue, yet it gets worse and worse.

There are no time release nutes left in the Foxfarm mix of Ocean Forest and Happy Frog that I put it into months ago. I need a little help, please. I JUST included some pH Down in my last rinse as it was somewhat high but not over 7, or hardly.

I just want my first crop to be as nice as possible. I worry that if the plant continues to get worse that I should harvest early so as to avoid a dead plant and no buds at all. The buds ARE growing still and getting heavy.

Anyone?

how much nutes exactly have you used and what brand? Is there any way you can get pictures?

sounds like the ph is high i think idealy it should be 6.4 max is 6.8. you are testing the runoff water out of your pot?

twiztidbudsmoke said:

how much nutes exactly have you used and what brand? Is there any way you can get pictures?

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I am using Tiger Bloom and earthworm castings with Indonesian bat guano for uptake enhancement. In addition, I use a little bee pollen, Superthrive, and unsulphured molasses. Recently, I gave it a dose of Humboldt County's Own Gravity (flower hardener). My other, late, plant went through this badly. It is interesting that it is concentrated on the side that has the most direct light hitting it and they're only CFL's. I am probably a couple of weeks from harvest, ideally. Trichomes are at only about ten percent so far.

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starrider said:

sounds like the ph is high i think idealy it should be 6.4 max is 6.8. you are testing the runoff water out of your pot?

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I must admit it never occurred to me to do it that way. I have been testing by dampening the strips on the surface.

when you test runoff for ph,, it will be low if lockout is the problem. all those nutes are very acid. if they build up--youll have ph like 4 or 4.5!!! thats why you flush, to rinse out excess nutes. goodluck

The side closer to the light is probably showing more symptoms b/c the light intensity allows that side of the plant to use more nutes, more photosynth., etc. In that case, I'd say it's a nute imbalance either because of your nute profile or high pH. Symptoms like you described above are pretty much associated with Ca and Mg. What type of water are you using? If RO, what Ca/Mg supplement are you using? With very soft water at low ppms, the natural levels of Mg might be insufficient at some point in flowering. Mg deficiencies commonly show up in early to mid flower.

I would look into your pH and your Ca/Mg supplementation. Epsom is a cheap Mg additive, but easily burns plants. Your local hydro shop should have some mineral matrix or calmag, and that should help alleviate the symptoms within 2-3 days. Cal/Mag functions in the plant as a pump mechanism to bring other nutes into the roots, so shortages here can show up as a variety of def.'s

^^Also, about OldToby's comment, he is dead on, except you may not get pH's that low if your water has a high dissolved carbonate level, as it will buffer the acidity fluctuation mostly.

KMothsi said:

What type of water are you using? If RO, what Ca/Mg supplement are you using? With very soft water at low ppms, the natural levels of Mg might be insufficient at some point in flowering. Mg deficiencies commonly show up in early to mid flower.

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I use tap water that has been allowed to release its chlorine for, usually, about 48 hours.

Tiger Bloom contains some calcium and magnesium, though I don't know how much or what should be required. In addition, bee pollen and unsulphured molasses are said to be good sources. I use them both, in small doses really.

I am just seeing that nearly everything I use has those minerals:

earthworm castings (2 TBSP spread out on soil every week or so)
bee pollen (just started with spreading 2 TSP on top - not soaked in yet)
Indonesian guano (1 TBSP per 3 gal every other feeding)
unsulphured molasses (2 TBSP every feeding)
Tiger Bloom (half strength of called for because of the above)

I use a little Superthrive every couple of weeks and JUST added Humboldt County's Own Gravity (a flower hardener) on the last feeding. The problems preceeded that by as much as a week.

I have been using the castings for uptake, and I hear the molasses has chelating agents as well. I think I will cut out the guano, though it has chelates too. It is extremely high in phosphorous and now that I am using Tiger Bloom, I think I might getting plenty of that.

Should I add more castings to keep the chelating high? I know I could pick up a bottle of Big Bloom but it is so late in the game, I just want to avoid more money over one plant right now.

<----------- another laid off American

your plants are hungry feed them more nutes it's not rocket science

half strenght quarter strenght ect. is bullshit!! this is why everyone's plants are yellowing NOT ENOUGH FOOD!!!

It's too late to reverse the yellowing but the plants will sustain their health'

beleive me i've been through this enough times.

Okay, I believe I have nailed down the problem and it is that there are not enough nutes. Supposedly, lockout usually entails a very low pH and since that is not the case then I looked elsewhere.

As noted above, this is what I have been feeding my plants:

earthworm castings (2 TBSP spread out on soil every week or so)
bee pollen (just started with spreading 2 TSP on top - not soaked in yet)
Indonesian guano (1 TBSP per 3 gal every other feeding)
unsulphured molasses (2 TBSP every feeding)
Tiger Bloom (half strength of called for because of the above)

..along with a little Superthrive.

Now, since all vertical growth on this plant stopped a couple of weeks ago, I think it is safe to say that I am not giving them too much nitrogen and since the castings have a little, and since they have chelates, I dumped a bunch on top of my soil. As well, I have been, upon re-examination, been giving them about one ninth of the guano that the product calls for and about a third of the molasses I keep hearing to give them. Add to all this that I am using HALF of the Tiger Bloom called for as per the instructions on the bottle, I think it is safe to say that I am more likely to be underfeeding them than overfeeding them. After all, I have not significantly upped any of the dosages in weeks and the plant is trying to do something that is, assuredly, more nutrient-intensive than before. I did not have this problem before the plants were into week six of flowering. If the nutes I had been giving them were not too much in weeks two to five of flowering, then they should not be too much right now. The pH runoff was tested at around 6.3 just moments ago and this watering had newly upped levels of nutrients.

Correct me if I am wrong.

nice job. its all trial and error until you can read the plants.