Your opinion about a connected EC / pH / climate meter

Hello everybody,

I will run a kickstarter campaign soon to fund the production of a remote monitoring device that takes continuous measurements of the pH, the EC, the climate (temperature, humidity) and light intensity. It's equipped with WiFi so you can see the measurements on your smartphone. You can receive notification when a threshold is exceeded and display daily, weekly and monthly graphs.
It will cost less than most of combo EC+pH meter you can find on the market.

I'm an electronic engineer and I grow hydro for almost 8 years now. So I had this idea and spent the last 18 month designing the device with the help of some friends.

I can't share the website here because of the forum's rules that I don't want to break, but I called it Egrowr so just type the name on Google or Facebook if you want more details.

I would like to have a feedback from the community about this idea. Do you think it would be useful to receive push notifications when it's time to correct the environment? What are the other features you would want to see in this kind of device?

Thanks !

FOR ADMIN : This is not an ad, I'm not representing a company and this is only a project for now, so please be understanding

Maybe in a commercial setup. For me I’m in my room everyday and the ph doesn’t fluctuate much at all.

You may want to check patents. I know there are already EC/Ph/Temp meters out there that connect wireless.

I consider a FULL pH swing to be the healthiest way to grow superior quality cannabis. It allows you to grow a healthy plant with significantly less nutrient, with the end quality being far superior to constant pH grown cannabis. pH swing is primarily dependent upon transpiration (which directly ties to temp/humidity), and the use of nutrients (which raises pH).

Having the ability to monitor conditions remotely is AWESOME!! Thank you for the head's up. I understand the forum restrictions, since I've written a book and do not have the 500eu to purchase a business forum. Kudos on your efforts anyway.

Maybe in a commercial setup. For me I’m in my room everyday and the ph doesn’t fluctuate much at all.

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If you are experienced, grow the same way for years and have a stable climate where you live, you know for sure when and how your value will fluctuate. But If you want to improve the yield, if you have a hotter day or if you switch to another strain, it's useful to have a feedback on what is happening, isn't it ?

You may want to check patents. I know there are already EC/Ph/Temp meters out there that connect wireless.

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Many devices have some of the features Egrowr offers, but no product offers climate AND nutrition monitoring. Notifications are unavailable in almost all devices. And none of them are as affordable and simple. 250$ for the Egrowr instead of 390$ for BlueLab Guardian connect that doesn't monitor climate nor send notifications.

I consider a FULL pH swing to be the healthiest way to grow superior quality cannabis.

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Yes, I totally agree. Actually with graphs I can see how long it takes to swing from the minimum pH value to the maximum. So there is no overshoot because I act before. It's one of the purpose of this feature. Thanks for your support

in that case, what you need to invent is a ph and ec measuring sensors that don't get covered in shit inside of about 10 days of being in continuous use.

That's an issue indeed. For EC, the solution is the 4 electrode measurement probe. It doesn't prevent dirt to cover the electrode, but there is almost no drift in measurement even after a month. What's more, we left the titanium electrodes accessible, so the user can use a piece of tissue and he's done with cleaning + no need to calibrate it often. Look :


For the pH, slime and dirt doesn't affect so much the measurement. During the test we got only +/- 0.3 pH difference with clean and clogged probe.

In the end, if you keep the solution temp below 19.5 deg.C there is no deposit at all. I know it can be hard, but it's the right way.

egrowr said:

That's an issue indeed. For EC, the solution is the 4 electrode measurement probe. It doesn't prevent dirt to cover the electrode, but there is almost no drift in measurement even after a month. What's more, we left the titanium electrodes accessible, so the user can use a piece of tissue and he's done with cleaning + no need to calibrate it often. Look :
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=478948View Image

For the pH, slime and dirt doesn't affect so much the measurement. During the test we got only +/- 0.3 pH difference with clean and clogged probe.

In the end, if you keep the solution temp below 19.5 deg.C there is no deposit at all. I know it can be hard, but it's the right way.

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When will your device go on sale? Maybe there will be some kind of presentation where you can personally see how it works, make sure that the measurements are correct and that you are telling the truth about words.

I don't see much of him anymore but queequeg had some good insight on these sorts of things.

Basically, the cheapie sensors we see in these types of units are prone to corrosion and malfunction. Theres a lot of new growers out there who want very much for an all-in-one unit, but with a crop as valuable as mj, it really is the best idea to go as analog as possible with time tested hvac gear.

I would read through QQ's posts. He went into pretty great detail about these sorts of things. He worked building and/or maintaining water wells (er something). Dude knows his shit.

"there is no point imo.

all you really need is a gateway(even this is debatable) to log data and or push data- realtime or otherwise, to your email or phone or SMS or what ever, and you dont need a zigbee network to do this.

also IOT is- in general and abomination of, "because you can, doesn't mean you should".

there is no value added in programming a climate controller verses a simple 2 stage thermostat w/ either a heating contact, or an additional heating thermostat.

there is also no value added in programming plug loads to be controlled via a wireless relay board or a wired board or Ethernet board or usb board... there is also no value added in a microcontroller based irrigation controller verses a 100 dollar drip irrigation controller.

i think folks are looking at programmable micro controllers and seeing them as a panacea because they dont understand standard hvac control schemes, or relay logic in general they assume this is the only way or the best way to build very very simple control schemes.

also the sensors sold with these microcontrollers are generally shit, or not suitable for anything beyond hobby use. the RH sensors you see on on these arduino websites sometimes dont even have shields over the film sensors... meanign they are easily contaminated with moisture or dust.

the sensors they do sell with stainless screens and or fritted glass protectors are coupled to shitty Chinese humidity sensors... you are better off just buying a honeywell RH transmitter and feeding it into a standard analog input controller or just an RH controller."

the cool thing about these type of systems is that you can monitor temps, ec and ph levels from afar. once you have a wifi set up you can add cameras so you can remotely check in, both in case of security breaches or general plant welfare checks, so while i agree that analogue is plenty for your home grow, there are situations where the remote controlled stuff is worth doing. just don't let it make you lazy, sensors still have to be cleaned and the floater switches need to be maintained too.

you should be able to make it so it tells you about ph and ec when ever you want to know or when its out of the acceptable range.

if you have a nutrient dispensing computer set up this stuff is even more valuable.

also the graphs that you can make, which you can then compare harvest to harvest to learn more about the set up.

"if you want to build something you are going to be way better off starting with quality parts and sensors like the johnson controls thermostats, and process controllers( EC, Ph ORP etc) from HACH, emerson/rosemount etc.

you do have a point so far as data aquisition or data logging though. But again daq shit is literally a multi billion dollar industry already, and because there is nothing particularly unique to greenhouses or grow rooms ... you are going to have to do an insanely good job with your software to make any inroads there, though i would not discourage you from trying."

When will your device go on sale? Maybe there will be some kind of presentation where you can personally see how it works, make sure that the measurements are correct and that you are telling the truth about words.

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We will make a crowdfunding campaign in Jan/Feb 2019 to fund the first production batch. All the information about the Egrowr will be communicated and a video will show how it works in real life. Go check the website if you want to stay tuned.

Basically, the cheapie sensors we see in these types of units are prone to corrosion and malfunction.

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I'm curious if you can challenge me about the corrosion of a 4 titanium electrodes EC probe like the probe we provide with the Egrowr. We spent 18 month full time working and testing it, and I can tell you that it's better than most probes on the market. Of course it's not a platinum covered lab grade probe, but do growers need a 1 uS/cm accuracy ?!
We do not produce the pH probe, so the user choose whatever he needs.
For the climate prob, it's based on a well know DHT22 climate sensor that is used by millions of users all around the world.

all you really need is a gateway(even this is debatable) to log data and or push data- realtime or otherwise, to your email or phone or SMS or what ever, and you dont need a zigbee network to do this.

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This device is not design for nerds that can program RPI or uC. People want an easy to use, plug-and-play device.

also IOT is- in general and abomination of, "because you can, doesn't mean you should".

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Ok, you can find bathroom scales with bluetooth connectivity. Totally agree that it's too much. But can't you really see the benefits of being informed when your plants are not growing in an optimal environment and don't have thousand of dollars to spend on a hvac controller ?

daq shit is literally a multi billion dollar industry already, and because there is nothing particularly unique to greenhouses or grow rooms... you are going to have to do an insanely good job with your software to make any inroads there

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We did a good job actually, people are enthusiastic with the product. Why ? because even if the DAQ industry is huge, big companies prefer to develop devices that will suit different uses. EC meters are used for drinking water purity control, pH meters for aquariums, swimming polls, etc. But few of those companies will put money on R&D to reach the yet small market of home growing. As a grower, I know what are the challenges. So we put usefull DAQ features to cover the needs of users. Egrowr is also simple and accessible to users that don't want to mess with DIY stuff.

The opinions stated above are not my own. They belong to a member named queequeg. I'm just the guy who threw out a dozen old fried up sensors yesterday.

I will say that growing occupies a lot of my time and brings me a lot of joy, and I don't mind spending extra money on niceties like data loggers and such, even at a premium.

If you want my opinion, I would have to say that I am skeptical of this kind of tool at that kind of price point. Growers typically have a bit of money to throw around, not to mention some of us count on our harvests to help us through debilitating pain.

I'm a contractor by trade, so I may be a little biased when it comes to purchasing quality tools. If I have to use a tool every day to make my living, I will pay almost any price for quality, especially if the work pays well.

Bobby Boucher said:

I'm a contractor by trade, so I may be a little biased when it comes to purchasing quality tools. If I have to use a tool every day to make my living, I will pay almost any price for quality, especially if the work pays well.

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This deserves repeating several million times. People who do not work with tools, have a difficult time understanding the value of a quality tool designed for the job.

I'm saying.. maybe do some footwork to see what it would cost to bring us a lab grade unit. This is what bluelab promises us and why so many of us choose them. Is bluelab really lab grade? I dunno, again, the price point makes me skeptical, but I take their promise at face value since my knowledge of these things doesn't span very far.

Doesn't mean there isn't a market for a $150 dollar unit. I might not want to spend top dollar on my gear if it didn't pay for itself 10x over in a 9 week turnaround.

I totally agree with you guys. I prefer to buy to quality shoes that last for years than buy some every 6 month.
The problem is that you doubt of the quality of the product based on the price.
I have to admit that it's often a good indicator. but it's not all the time the case. As far as electronic product development is concerned, most companies are very inefficient. I could talk about it for hours as I know the subject. but in a nutshell, managing dozens of engineers having their own narrow expertise in order to design many different devices costs a huge amount of money. When few designers meet to work on fewer or just one product, It cost less. Even with the same prototyping and testing procedures as big companies perform.

Actually thanks for challenging me on this point, because I will certainly have to face this kind of critics.

In conclusion we will be forced to add 500$ to the price tag in order to add some perceived quality to the device
Just kidding

For info, I am as well a medicinal user. I suffer from inflammatory bowel disease that made me start using oil and vaping and growing my own medicine. It's a life saver for me, I would certainly have to poop in an external bag without it...

Actually thanks for challenging me on this point, because I will certainly have to face this kind of critics.

In conclusion we will be forced to add 500$ to the price tag in order to add some perceived quality to the device

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I was just curious what it might cost on your end to use high-end probes and sensors. I understand, its expensive af, but we ain't growin' cilantro here, and a lot of us don't mind paying a premium.

Pardon me all over if that was out of line.

when it comes to electrical system, lamps, ventilation, timers, clima controllers, i insist on decent quality, it pays for it's self in reliability and low sound level. in fact my lamps are totally soundless once they are warm, but i have seen many lamps that make various noises continuously. on the other hand a ph meter and ec meter doesn't really need to be the best quality. i have noticed that cheap ones need calibrating just about as often if not less often then more expensive ones. but for automation i'd sure want decent quality. thing is my system is stable, once the ph and ec is set, it stays pretty stable, even though i run a recirculating system the ph doesn't drift more then is actually desirable imo. so yeah i'd think this system would be better integrated in an actual fert dosing computer system.

I worry about how secure that data is. How easy it would be for hackers to steal data then Post online for world to see that there is a grow at your WiFi address

I worry about how secure that data is. How easy it would be for hackers to steal data then Post online for world to see that there is a grow at your WiFi address

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We took care of that. The device connects to our server the same way a computer connects to load a web page. For a spy hacker it's just a stream of encrypted data like someone accessing an SSL web page. Then data are stored WITHOUT any personal information, not even the IP address. The data are linked to a web account the user creates online thank to a 6 figures user id that isn't related to any name, IP address, etc.

The new EU rules about personal data storage and the risk for growers made that we totally got rid of any personal data on the servers.

Of course, you can completely switch off the cloud mode and leave the device on your local network only.

Anyway, it's the security level of the WiFi Key that ensures the privacy and the security of the devices on the WiFi network.

Finally, it's possible to turn the WiFi module off and read measurements on the screen.