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Any chemists around here? Suffer from kidney stones? Decaboxylate water solubles?

johnreid

New member
For people with breathing problems that need quit smoking/vaping and for people with oxalate kidney stones, it might be good to know more about isolating various components of cannabis, am wondering about getting water solubles out before/after/during decarboxylation, before infusion/extraction into vegetable oil, so here's a couple different things I thought up, wondering if there's any logic behind any of it, or does decarboxylation actually destroy all water solubles, do they not need washing out?...


Always use organic sources when making extracts and be sure you have all supplies ready!



Soak ground cannabis in cold water, stirring occasionally, perhaps for a few hours?


Put it all thru a fine strainer (or bubble bags) in order to rid yourself of the water while retrieving as much of the cannabis as possible.


Preheat oven to 200F (use candy or oven thermometer), spread cannabis on pyrex tray, as thin and evenly as possible, letting it dry up and then decarboxylate...

I've heard of people decarboxylating at 200F (on cooking trays in the oven, in vacuum sealed jars/bags in the oven or in water, like sous vide) from as little as 40 minutes, to as long as 1:30+ hrs, and I realize having to dehydrate the cannabis of the water, from having been soaked, may very well add even more time/variability to all this, so I suppose I would likely experiment with 2 gram samples, taking one out after an hour, then another after 1:30 hrs, then another after 2 hrs, hopefully not requiring more, etc.

Get your vegetable oil, make sure it has plenty of fat (preferablly polyunsaturated?) and that the temperature for its boiling/smoke point is higher than what you plan on going while infusing/extracting the cannabinoids...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/543218-Specific-boiling-points-and-roles-of-cannabinoids

https://www.google.com/search?q=ava...8&oe=utf-8#nfpr=1&q=avocado+oil+boiling+point

https://www.google.com/search?q=ava...=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=grapeseed+oil+boiling+point


Preheat the oil and put the cannabis into it, infusing it with the cannabinoids at around 295F for a determined amount of time (possibly 45min to an hour?).

While still hot, and without burning yourself, somehow (cheese cloth) strain the cannabis out of the oil and ring/squeeze out the oil from the cannabis. You can take this same cannabis now and infuse it into a new/uninfused batch of oil, to extract cannabinoids at an even higher temperature (somwhere between 325 & 375F for around 30 minutes?). Do label your final oil bottles according to the specs/parameters used, unless you want to mix them all up.





Another method I'm pondered up, although I have a bad feeling about it -

Preheat water to 200F and soak ground cannabis to wash out water solubles and decarboxylate simultaniously. Let it cool to room temperature, not in the fridge.

Put it all thru a fine strainer (or bubble bags) in order to separate the water from the cannabis. Also, try to squeeze/ring out more water from the cannabis

Spread the cannabis out on a tray as thin and evenly as possible to let it air dry for a couple days before starting the extractions/oil infusion process, or not, just go straight to extraction into the oil, as the oil will likely get the water out of the cannabis anyway, or will it?



I guess the cold water method seems better?, but is there even any logic in any of this or do I not understand chemistry?
 

raven44

Member
I'd like to see the fact that edibles have a different effect on the user addressed

I'm not all for smoking cannabis. I'd prefer to eat it. But having grown accustom to the effects from smoking cannabis I am deterred from eating it rather than smoking it due to the difference in the effects.

Maybe a pure thc edible would be more suitable for myself. Or a high thc low cdb edible.

I'm guessing cdb is much more prevalent in most edibles compared to thc
 

johnreid

New member
I'd like to see the fact that edibles have a different effect on the user addressed

I'm not all for smoking cannabis. I'd prefer to eat it. But having grown accustom to the effects from smoking cannabis I am deterred from eating it rather than smoking it due to the difference in the effects.

Maybe a pure thc edible would be more suitable for myself. Or a high thc low cdb edible.

I'm guessing cdb is much more prevalent in most edibles compared to thc



You can make an oil that's higher in thc as opposed to cbd if your cannabis is of such a strain to begin with. After proper decarboxylation (200F for 45min - 1:15?), infuse the ground cannabis into the oil, keeping the temp around 295F (thc combusts at 314F) for around 45min, strain/squeeze/ring out the oil (while still hot, but without burning yourself), and use it again with a new batch of properly decaboxylated ground cannabis (making sure not to make it hotter than it was before, each time you do this, make sure you're not hotter than before, or you'll start to destroy the infuse cannabinoids from the previous infusion/extraction.) Also, each time you do this, you will lose some of your oil volume because you wont be able to squeeze/ring it all out.

What I'd really like to see addressed is, all the various oils out there and how much cannabinoid the different types of fats (sat, trans, polyunsat, monounsat, etc) can hold before becoming fully saturated, like how could one even possible tell?
 

raven44

Member
I've wondered about the saturation point of the oil being used as well

I smoke, so I use 1-2oz of material to one stick. Makes it very strong.

I like the concept of saving the material and re using it at different temps... I don't like to waste

I decarb for 1hr at 245 degrees F. Then put in oil and extract at 150-180 degrees F for 8-12 hrs.

Strain...
 

Galaxy420

Active member
For people with breathing problems that need quit smoking/vaping and for people with oxalate kidney stones, it might be good to know more about isolating various components of cannabis, am wondering about getting water solubles out before/after/during decarboxylation, before infusion/extraction into vegetable oil, so here's a couple different things I thought up, wondering if there's any logic behind any of it, or does decarboxylation actually destroy all water solubles, do they not need washing out?...


Always use organic sources when making extracts and be sure you have all supplies ready!



Soak ground cannabis in cold water, stirring occasionally, perhaps for a few hours?


Put it all thru a fine strainer (or bubble bags) in order to rid yourself of the water while retrieving as much of the cannabis as possible.


Preheat oven to 200F (use candy or oven thermometer), spread cannabis on pyrex tray, as thin and evenly as possible, letting it dry up and then decarboxylate...

I've heard of people decarboxylating at 200F (on cooking trays in the oven, in vacuum sealed jars/bags in the oven or in water, like sous vide) from as little as 40 minutes, to as long as 1:30+ hrs, and I realize having to dehydrate the cannabis of the water, from having been soaked, may very well add even more time/variability to all this, so I suppose I would likely experiment with 2 gram samples, taking one out after an hour, then another after 1:30 hrs, then another after 2 hrs, hopefully not requiring more, etc.

Get your vegetable oil, make sure it has plenty of fat (preferablly polyunsaturated?) and that the temperature for its boiling/smoke point is higher than what you plan on going while infusing/extracting the cannabinoids...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/543218-Specific-boiling-points-and-roles-of-cannabinoids

https://www.google.com/search?q=ava...8&oe=utf-8#nfpr=1&q=avocado+oil+boiling+point

https://www.google.com/search?q=ava...=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=grapeseed+oil+boiling+point


Preheat the oil and put the cannabis into it, infusing it with the cannabinoids at around 295F for a determined amount of time (possibly 45min to an hour?).

While still hot, and without burning yourself, somehow (cheese cloth) strain the cannabis out of the oil and ring/squeeze out the oil from the cannabis. You can take this same cannabis now and infuse it into a new/uninfused batch of oil, to extract cannabinoids at an even higher temperature (somwhere between 325 & 375F for around 30 minutes?). Do label your final oil bottles according to the specs/parameters used, unless you want to mix them all up.





Another method I'm pondered up, although I have a bad feeling about it -

Preheat water to 200F and soak ground cannabis to wash out water solubles and decarboxylate simultaniously. Let it cool to room temperature, not in the fridge.

Put it all thru a fine strainer (or bubble bags) in order to separate the water from the cannabis. Also, try to squeeze/ring out more water from the cannabis

Spread the cannabis out on a tray as thin and evenly as possible to let it air dry for a couple days before starting the extractions/oil infusion process, or not, just go straight to extraction into the oil, as the oil will likely get the water out of the cannabis anyway, or will it?



I guess the cold water method seems better?, but is there even any logic in any of this or do I not understand chemistry?

you do not want to water soak in cool or cold water as it will release the thrichomes into the water if to cold. a warm,luke warm water soak is best to do a water soak.. also, decarboxylating is simply removing the carboxylic acid or carbon shield ( enzyme) from the compounds thereby exposing the molecule and making the molecule smaller for a neuronal receptor fit. decarboxing to soon while the molecules sit exposed will lead them to becoming cbn ( oxidated thc) too...
 

raven44

Member
So ur saying u would infuse your chosen oil, and then once the oil is infused and strained ect u would then at that point decarb the oil?

Or perhaps decarb while the cannabis matter and oil are still in solution together?

This brings up a q of mine.. is it better to decarb at a higher temp, and infuse oil at lower temps? Or better to decarb at lower temps (150-180 degrees F) and then infuse oil at higher temps?

The latter (decarb at lower temps, then infuse with higher temps) seems like the way that method it'd be somewhat pointless to decarb. Would the matter not get decarbed while being infused at higher temps (near boiling)???

I'm also curious if/when the oil becomes fully saturated. Is there a point when the chosen oil cannot hold any more cannabanoids? If so this data would be quite usefully. I'm sure there is, hard to calculate through trial and error but could be done roughly lol
 

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
citric acid
i should add a "testimonial" so it's not just a couple words.. kidney stones for quarter century, citric acid "lemonade" has made them a nonevent, 100% good. does taste better with some real fruit juice in there, but 5 lbs. of citric off ebay for $15 or whatever lasts like the better part of two years.
 

TnTLabs

Active member
i should add a "testimonial" so it's not just a couple words.. kidney stones for quarter century, citric acid "lemonade" has made them a nonevent, 100% good. does taste better with some real fruit juice in there, but 5 lbs. of citric off ebay for $15 or whatever lasts like the better part of two years.
yeah dead cheap and can be used as ph down...
whats your recipe, and how long did you take it for?
symptoms? thx
:tiphat:
 
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