PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Yeah, you have numbers on your soil. Having something quantifiable is probably more a accurate analysis method than my technique of looking at pictures on the internet.
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cbcool's native soil grow 2017
- Thread starter cbcool
- Start date
Yeah, you have numbers on your soil. Having something quantifiable is probably more a accurate analysis method than my technique of looking at pictures on the internet.
You also have too much sulfur with low potassium, phosphorus will also cause iron and manganese deficiencies by blocking their uptake as well as calcium, magnesium will do the same for calcium which is too high, I am guess it is more of a loam or clay than a sand. With that pH you will also have a problem uptaking iron and managese, did you use chelates?
That sharp yellow margin around the leaf edge looks like Boron to me. Usually I see those symptoms when I push B too hard, but maybe with that high of Ca you are severely deficient in B? After your top dress, should go away.
Loving this thread.
Sorry to hear about your cat. I love and will always have pets, but hate when they pass. Stay strong, and keep your head up.
Loving this thread.
Sorry to hear about your cat. I love and will always have pets, but hate when they pass. Stay strong, and keep your head up.
Pictures are good, the hard part is there so many deficiencies/toxicities that look the same and distinguishing the difference is hard without numbers to know the difference.
I didn't use chelates, used all sulfates, which might be the cause of inflated sulfur numbers, but I don't feel it's high. It's recommended to use 300 lbs per acre to drop soil pH by one point.
K just got low and P just got high, that's why I committed to monthly soil tests this season, I'm data driven and learning so much from the tests.
I'd say my soil is more of a sandy clay loam.
I was thinking along the same lines with B, way too low for Ca % I have. I've already hit them with 75 grams of borax over the last month and half, kind of surprised it's that low still.
Will do with my cat, my focus now is keeping these five kittens bottle fed and healthy and making sure they are having regular BM's.
Thanks all for the input, I hope there is good data and debate that we all can learn from. I'm trying to focus on soil science and plant nutrition based on the numbers, I feel it's going quite well so far.
Sorry if slow has already commented to you in private. Take anything he says over anything I say at all times.
When looking at your tests I see some problems, have some questions, and am in awe of the calcium levels. Main problem, K. You are short big time as time goes on. This may have an effect on yields if not taken care of here when flower begins. It looks like you have been adding ppms ok K, but your % is going down in relation to your other cations.
on the Mn to Fe ratio. You are my hero.
Low B, but you addressed that.
Gotta start pumping those amino's.
Where the heck did all the aluminum go? Bravo.
The question I have is..... What is your target ppm for zinc? I like where you are, but have you pushed it or are you going to push it?
Thanks for sharing, plants and soil looks great. I am being super picky, as you have one of the better soil analysis out there. Easy fixes imo.
When looking at your tests I see some problems, have some questions, and am in awe of the calcium levels. Main problem, K. You are short big time as time goes on. This may have an effect on yields if not taken care of here when flower begins. It looks like you have been adding ppms ok K, but your % is going down in relation to your other cations.
on the Mn to Fe ratio. You are my hero.Low B, but you addressed that.
Gotta start pumping those amino's.
Where the heck did all the aluminum go? Bravo.
The question I have is..... What is your target ppm for zinc? I like where you are, but have you pushed it or are you going to push it?
Thanks for sharing, plants and soil looks great. I am being super picky, as you have one of the better soil analysis out there. Easy fixes imo.
Thanks I appreciate it!
Slow showed me the map, but I drove there on my own! He has an abundance of knowledge that shouldn't be over looked.
I will do my best to answer to the best of my limited knowledge, I'm not always the best at explaining things.
I don't think I'm short at the moment, look at the AA8.2 #'s for P and K from 5/31-7/20? I was high in K and low in P, I Started building P and Ca in mid June, See how the P and K numbers flipped by mid July.
You should max K through most of veg while maintaining P, then push K down with Ca a couple of weeks before you flower, and keep building Ca a couple into flower before you start building up K again.
At this stage I'm trying to manipulate the cations while maintaining a relative soil balance for health, vigor, and yield.
Does that make sense? I'm an experienced chemist, but I'm very new to agronomy and I'm still in the learning curve.
One thing I think might help many is to take a look at the reactivity series of elements. This is a basic chart, but the more reactive an element is the more it wants to be held in solution versus a less reactive element, which is why we can push and build certain cations/anions. If you look at the reactivity of K versus Ca, K is much more reactive witch is why it takes so much gypsum to push K out of the soil solution.
Then you have reducers and oxidizers, + and -, cation and anion relationships, but that's a whole other conversion.
I was just fortunate to be in an area that already has a high Mn/Fe ratio, I've just been trying to maintain it. But realize as soil pH goes up high Mn isn't as high to a plant as a soil test might indicate, I'm trying to balance Mn/Fe ratio with a pH dependency.
I've been trying but my budget gets tighter every second!
Refer to the reactivity series.
When you say "push" do mean building it up or pushing it out? I refer to "push" as replacing one element with another, i.e... pushing it out of solution.
As for Zn, it's in range, I was shooting for 25-30 ppm.
Thanks for all the detailed question, and sorry if sounded like I was on a tangent, I was just trying to convey my thought process.
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hobbyhorse
Member
Great job over there cb. Awesome thread great to see you gathering some good numbers too. Very thorough.
I still think that K is too low, IMO. Thought I would share this chart on cation and anion reactions. Chemist knows this, but in regards to soil relationships as well.
Each piece of the pie shows what reacts with what. For example, cations all equal 100%, one number goes down, the others go up. I know you know, but this has been a great help for me.
Each piece of the pie shows what reacts with what. For example, cations all equal 100%, one number goes down, the others go up. I know you know, but this has been a great help for me.
Don't forget they are laid out with the highest antagonism on top to least antagonist on bottom.
Someone said something on the other chart where K is so hard to kick off cations. Which isn't 100% true. On all my soil tests I add Ca and K drops but Mg might drop 10% of what K did. This can be pretty easily done with gypsum.
I'm more of balance guy and I like me some money mineral. But a timely application
Someone said something on the other chart where K is so hard to kick off cations. Which isn't 100% true. On all my soil tests I add Ca and K drops but Mg might drop 10% of what K did. This can be pretty easily done with gypsum.
I'm more of balance guy and I like me some money mineral. But a timely application
plantingplants
Active member
Cb, unless i really missed something, i noticed on the #s you gave me you might have a spreadsheet error... When you add gyp, those meqs of Ca shouldnt be added to the cec estimate. You could be way overshooting ca. Even by kraidy standards lol
That said, that might even work out since i have heard gyp is only 85% effective in replacing ion for ion. And also we arent calculating the other bases besides the big ones.
Edit: 80% effective, not 85%. Per Spectrum.
That said, that might even work out since i have heard gyp is only 85% effective in replacing ion for ion. And also we arent calculating the other bases besides the big ones.
Edit: 80% effective, not 85%. Per Spectrum.
Your right K is low, it should be at 4%, I'm just not that concerned as I'm building it up with every watering, it will be back on line soon. Next months soil test will really tell us if it is though.
I like the chart, very simple and readable.
Well put, totally agree, nice catch on that one
That's a valid point, Ca with a plus two charge has no valence electrons, K has one and Mg has two, which is why it pushes K easier then Mg.
I don't think there was an error per say, I looked back through and saw I used Spectrums CEC of 27.4 with AA8.2 #'s instead of the AA8.2 calculated CEC 24.8.
If I re-work it this is what I get in lbs/ cubic yard,
Gypsum 10 KSo4 0.8 Ag Sulfur 0.06 Sodium Borate 0.01 MnSo4 1.0 CuSo4 0.06
But an extra 4lbs of gyp never hurt anyone, right!!!
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all these numbers and letters are freaking crazy. I don't have any readings in my soil, I'm no chemist either. Im using Big Rootz soil from Cloverdale with a couple things added before transplanting. I like to keep things easy
LOL, I'm no botanist or agronomist, all's I know is numbers and letters that's my easy, otherwise I probably couldn't grow my way out of wet paper bag!!! My father had the green thumb, he could grow anything easily just by feel and how the plants looked.
My father had the green thumb, he could grow anything easily just by feel and how the plants looked.
I hear that, I learned from my pops as well. He's a certified arborist and has been growing for 30+ years.
plantingplants
Active member
How's it goin out there cb?
