Cannabis oil?

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 2, 2013

Check out the part on solvents left in the oil used by patients, scary...
-SamS

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf

Cannabinoids 2013;1(1):1-11
© International Association for Cannabinoid Medicines 1
Original article
Cannabis Oil: chemical evaluation of an upcoming cannabis-based medicine
Luigi L Romano, Arno Hazekamp
Department of Pharmacy, University of Siena, Italy
Plant Metabolomics group, Institute of Biology, Leiden University, The Netherlands
Abstract
Concentrated cannabis extracts, also known as Cannabis oils because of their sticky and viscous appearance, are becoming increasingly popular among self-medicating patients as a claimed cure for cancer. In general, preparation methods for Cannabis oils are relatively simple and do not re-quire particular instruments. The most well-known example of such a product is called ‘Simpson oil’. The purpose of the extraction, often followed by a solvent evaporation step, is to make canna-binoids and other beneficial components such as terpenes available in a highly concentrated form. Although various preparation methods have been recommended for Cannabis oils, so far no stud-ies have reported on the chemical composition of such products.
Recognizing the need for more information on quality and safety issues regarding Cannabis oils, an analytical study was performed to compare several generally used preparation methods on the basis of content of cannabinoids, terpenes, and residual solvent components. Solvents used include ethanol, naphtha, petroleum ether, and olive oil. The obtained results are not intended to support or deny the therapeutic properties of these products, but may be useful for better understanding the experiences of self-medicating patients through chemical analysis of this popular medicine.

oldchuck · Oct 2, 2013

Excellent article. Real science for a change. I'm still reading it.

oldchuck · Oct 2, 2013

Okay, so poisonous solvents are bad. Ethanol and olive oil are good. I already knew that. They are the only way I go. The article, however, gives me some valuable hints about how to vary the extractions, refine the process. Definitely information to work with. I am not getting the part about ethanol extracting chlorophyll. I thought it was water that extracted chlorophyll and the ethanol left it behind.

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 2, 2013

I think many think they know that, but they also think what they are smoking is solvent free, while more likely then not it has traces of the solvents used. And some are real nasty to people in the long run. We should all stay away from solvents, especially the toxic ones.

Also if you use ethanol with Cannabis in an ultra sonicator and only do it for around one minute you get almost all the THC with little to no chlorophyl, try it.
I am not a chemist but if you get 95% ethanol the other 5% is water.
Even if you get anhydrous ethanol which is 99.5% you need to avoid exposure to any atmosphere that has humidity, or the ethanol will suck water from the air and bring the ethanol down to 95%.
BTW I have put bone dry desiccated buds in with anhydrous ethanol with no exposure to humidity, and left the buds to soak for a week or two, they sure turned the ethanol dark greenish ....
With no water I think....
-SamS

oldchuck said:
Okay, so poisonous solvents are bad. Ethanol and olive oil are good. I already knew that. They are the only way I go. The article, however, gives me some valuable hints about how to vary the extractions, refine the process. Definitely information to work with. I am not getting the part about ethanol extracting chlorophyll. I thought it was water that extracted chlorophyll and the ethanol left it behind.

vapor · Oct 2, 2013

zeolite gets the last bits of water from the 95% ethanol.....

oldchuck · Oct 2, 2013

What is an ultra sonicator? Some kind of ultrasound device?

I use the 95% ethanol and don't worry about a little water. I love the emerald green color. Taste is no problem as I dilute it back with spiced rum. I use Gray Wolf's freeze dried method. The whole extraction is done below freezing after a decarb treatment in the oven.

bigdaddyc9 · Oct 2, 2013

I do alcohol extraction with Everclear and get fantastic potency oil.Using a rice cooker the alcohol boils off fast and Im left with what looks like Amber grade maple syrup.Knock me on my butt 1st time eating a piece the size of a grain of rice.

JRace · Oct 3, 2013

These data indicate that significant decarboxylation of the major cannabinoid acids occurs only by exposure to higher temperatures for extended time (oven at 145°C for 30 min), which is in agreement with previous stud- ies [18,22]. However, under these conditions all major terpenes present were affected by significant evapora- tion. Although milder decarboxylation using a boiling water bath may be efficient when applied for longer time [22], the terpene profile already changes signifi- cantly after only 5 min of treatment. For this reason, all further experiments were carried out without applica- tion of a preheating step.

Interesting.

Piel · Oct 3, 2013

So decarbing is a no-no. I´ve tried both decarbing and not and I find the decarbed tincture more effective (6min in 180C).

oldchuck · Oct 3, 2013

I believe the study cut out the decarb step in order to maximize extraction of the terpenes only, nothing to do with use of the product. How effective more or less terpenes are remains an unanswered question. I think a lot of interesting experimentation remains to be done on mixing and matching different extraction formulas.

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 3, 2013

If you have higher levels of the right terpene's I can guarantee that the effects are stronger then just high THC with little terpene's. It maybe unanswered to you, but not to me, or anyone that has done the testing of high THC low terpene vs high THC high terpene. Or better 100% pure THC and the 100% THC spiked with a terpene or 100% THC spiked with some terpene rich dry sift. Both are stronger then 100% THC...

-SamS

oldchuck said:
I believe the study cut out the decarb step in order to maximize extraction of the terpenes only, nothing to do with use of the product. How effective more or less terpenes are remains an unanswered question. I think a lot of interesting experimentation remains to be done on mixing and matching different extraction formulas.

oldchuck · Oct 3, 2013

Sam, I have a rather interesting form of temporal lobe epilepsy which causes simple and complex partial seizure activity. I have been through a lot of anti epileptic drugs which have either been ineffective or caused intolerable side effects. I am now trying Cannabis with indifferent or ambiguous effect but, of course, I have only the vaguest idea what the Cannabinoid and terpene mix might be in the weed I have available. The Cannabis shows promise but I ain't there yet. I need to know a lot more about the mix and match combination of medicinal components. So perhaps you could explain to me just what you mean by "I can guarantee the effects are stronger than just high THC..."

Getting high on weed isn't much of an issue for me. I've been getting acceptably high since my brickweed days of the mid 1960s.

JRace · Oct 3, 2013

Sam_Skunkman said:
If you have higher levels of the right terpene's I can guarantee that the effects are stronger then just high THC with little terpene's. It maybe unanswered to you, but not to me, or anyone that has done the testing of high THC low terpene vs high THC high terpene. Or better 100% pure THC and the 100% THC spiked with a terpene or 100% THC spiked with some terpene rich dry sift. Both are stronger then 100% THC...

-SamS

I am interested in the context of oral consumption, and am curious if the terpene effects would be benificial for edibles.

Sam, wrere your tests done with smoking or oral or both?

In my limited testing i have found (subjective) improved potentcy with decarb products.

My tests were done with low-grade drysift mixed with coconut oil decarbed in a sealed jar placed in hot water for 30min. Tne prepared as capsules.

Green Supreme · Oct 3, 2013

Sam is there a saturation point for ethanol, at which point it can absorb no more? If so, I wonder how many runs you have to do with the same ethanol to saturate it? Thanks for sharing. Peace GS

vapor · Oct 3, 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotovap

one of these bad boys will let you concentrate the ethanol cannabis solution and reclaim the ethanol at pure state to run again and again.

supermanlives · Oct 4, 2013

only alcohol and o oil for me, never felt good about other solvents

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 5, 2013

look it up on google. It is like a jewlery cleaner, but for a lab.
Try it without the green before you decide which you like best.
-SamS

oldchuck said:
What is an ultra sonicator? Some kind of ultrasound device?

I use the 95% ethanol and don't worry about a little water. I love the emerald green color. Taste is no problem as I dilute it back with spiced rum. I use Gray Wolf's freeze dried method. The whole extraction is done below freezing after a decarb treatment in the oven.

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 5, 2013

oldchuck said:
Sam, I have a rather interesting form of temporal lobe epilepsy which causes simple and complex partial seizure activity. I have been through a lot of anti epileptic drugs which have either been ineffective or caused intolerable side effects. I am now trying Cannabis with indifferent or ambiguous effect but, of course, I have only the vaguest idea what the Cannabinoid and terpene mix might be in the weed I have available. The Cannabis shows promise but I ain't there yet. I need to know a lot more about the mix and match combination of medicinal components. So perhaps you could explain to me just what you mean by "I can guarantee the effects are stronger than just high THC..."

Getting high on weed isn't much of an issue for me. I've been getting acceptably high since my brickweed days of the mid 1960s.

I am refering to getting high, but that said I would not want to give medical advice I just do not know the answer. Terpenes of the right kind do make THC stronger as well as modifying the effects, that is where almost all the different effects in Cannabis come from, terpenes. From up, speedy, clear, psychedelic, to narcotic and couchlock, it is the terpenes modifying the THC.
-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · Oct 5, 2013

JRace said:
I am interested in the context of oral consumption, and am curious if the terpene effects would be benificial for edibles.

Sam, wrere your tests done with smoking or oral or both?

In my limited testing i have found (subjective) improved potentcy with decarb products.

My tests were done with low-grade drysift mixed with coconut oil decarbed in a sealed jar placed in hot water for 30min. Tne prepared as capsules.

Did not do oral testing.
Vaporization.
THC is much stronger then THCA. (oraly)
I used 100% pure THC and spiked it with different pure terpenes. Then vaped it.

-SamS

G.O. Joe · Mar 25, 2014

The pdf is too good, too useful (expect nothing less from co-author Hazekamp) to be buried under almost 6 months of threads.

Cannabis oil?

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