Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

VerdantGreen · Sep 24, 2011

med4u said:
i scrog,therefore i defoliate,even thou i have not read this entire thread,i have read many many others on this very subject,my take on it is,the leaves are for feeding the root system,the root system is for feeding the plant,once a healthy root system has been established,the need for an over abundance of leaves becomes less important as we induce the flowering process the energy is focused more on the bud sites,the plant too wants to produce large sticky buds to collect as much pollen as possible,with the leaves and lower growth gone the energy(auxins and nutrients) are transfered directly to the bud sites,i know this is a rudementry description of the process,obviously it is abundently more complex,however in practical applications it holds true, in my experience,limited as it may be,i have managed 7lbs of 8 to 10 inch fat buds from 9 plants in a 3x4 scrog,it works hope yours does too well second post out of the way,figured id bury it back here

sorry to be blunt but this is mostly nonsense. no energy at all comes from the roots of the plant - it is all produced by photosynthesis in the leaves (and to a lesser extent in the buds) the roots only provide various elements/minerals and water for the plant to grow itself.
neither auxins or nutrients are energy either. auxins are hormones actually produced in the growing tips and transported down the plant. nutrients arent energy either.

as the root system tires during mid to late flowering, nutrients and sugars/starch(energy) stored in the leaves (if they are still attached to the plant) are relocated and used for growing and ripening the buds.

i scrog too, and i dont remove many leaves at all - i certainly dont defol as prescribed in this thread, and i get great yields (which are documented in my threads)

VG

grassott · Sep 24, 2011

This is my first aggressive defoli run. Right now I got 6 hempy buckets that are 6 weeks in flower. They was not defolied on a big scale, just the odd fatty leaf that was blocking budsites got removed in this gang...

Shit cam I know, but a nice bunch of non defolied girls nonetheless. These lot are getting the chop next month then the prepped up crop (now getting defolied in veg) are going to get flowered in Oct, harvested by Xmas. Then I can compare the two crops. That's the best and fairest way I can do this experiment in my opinion.

I can't wait for xmas to see the results for myself instead of people saying "defoliate" or "dont defoliate". Its the best way for me to see the pros and cons of this technique rather than listen to people and follow like sheep.

grassott · Sep 26, 2011

OK everyone. I have a strong feeling that certain experienced growers and ICMag moderators are against the way I am sharing my experimental results and the way I am portraying myself. My sole intention is to share the results of my unbiased experiment.

It has been suggested that I post my findings in fewer threads, which is understandable. Therefore, I only intend to share my experiment in this thread and here...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221928&page=7

I know I can appear rather brash at times, but when I am doing something which I believe has the possibility of benefiting others, I refuse to back down to experienced growers who have x amount of grows under their belts, assuming that I'm some kind of noob (I've been growing on and off for the past 18 years for those of you that don't know me) no matter what the outcome of my experiment will be. I feel that ICMag is becoming like a communist state where a "noob" conducting an experiment has to trod on egg shells in fear of being silenced or worse, even banned.

From now on I refuse to answer to argumentative people throwing their lengthy posts filled with the most boring mathematical/scientific jargon I have ever seen since my college days. This is a ganja growing experiment after all and I wish these guys would smoke one, chill and allow me to conduct my experiment in peace. This would make it much easier to report my findings on ICMag.

Going back to the topic at hand (my experiment) I had (and still have) a real scare. My girls are still droopy so I've flushed them heavily with ph'd water, hoping that they will recover. I'll keep you posted. Many thanks for your understanding in this delicate matter.

lil~greensprout · Sep 26, 2011

grassott said:
I feel that ICMag is becoming like a communist state.

Seriously dude, your bring'n some of this on yourself,
call'n people fags because they disagree with you... really ?

"Me thinks thou protests too much", perhaps try re-direct'n your anger,
your time and your energy towards your garden, get that in order first
and then come back and "talk shit ta da boyz", until that happens,
no one is gonna take you seriously, peace and good luck, Sprout.

grassott · Sep 27, 2011

^ i'm sorry if you have been offended by my remarks. I am also happy that my offensive posts have been removed. I hope we can leave it there.

Sacra Frasca · Sep 28, 2011

The method really works, also in soil, at least for now. Thanks for the advice.

after defoliation end 2 week later.

grassott · Sep 28, 2011

^ Awww mate, that's a great defoli job and your plant looks simply beautiful! I like the way the leaves are small too because without the defoli, you would've had fewer leaves which would've been really really big, blocking the plant's inners.

Give this guy a big round of applause...... :groupwave:

Sacra Frasca · Sep 30, 2011

grassott@
Thanks buddy, your plant look also great.

med4u · Oct 3, 2011

RetroGrow said:
I would love to see 7 pounds of dried buds from 9 plants in a 3X4 area. Got pictures?

no no 7lbs wet jus over 2 dried, sorry i wasnt clear on that,and yea i got pics ill be postin' a bunch soon,i jus harvested a 4x4 that produced a little over 10lbs WET not a fan leaf in site,i know theres a bunch of dif opinions on it,however i actually do it as you will soon see,17in colas, some talk about, it, others do it i prefer to find out stuff first hand,no one doing a proper scrog has any veg below the screen,except popcorn buds these i utilized for pollenating

med4u · Oct 3, 2011

prowler said:
In My Humble Opinion:

All of you 1st, 2nd, 3rd and even 4th time growers should drag your asses back to the basics dialing your skills and environment before even looking this topic..mmkay?!

If you (mentioned above) need to up your yields this is not the way to go. Hard core pruning steps in when you've fully learned what stress does to a plant and how to let it heal and avoid futile stressing of the plant. Please.

I'm not here to diss your skills or diss defoiling...I'm just repeating what other growers have said again and again in this topic: This is not just something you should do "because others do it!" f*** that. I've messed so many grows with stressing out plants that i've lost the count. Stressing your plants at improper timing leads to reduced swallowing of the buds - understand this, not a hard thing to remember.

There are a lot of resources here in icmag which will give (us) rookies more benefits than this.. Bookmark this for later and learn the basics first.

haha some people should actually try things before dissin', and not repeat things because others have said it,its a frickin weed not a rose,they can handle alot more than you think good luck

prowler · Oct 3, 2011

You ain't too bright are you? It's just that I see a lot of junk on this topic. People (like me) does this thing without having a clue on how to really boost up the harvests and i'm saying that other factors improve outcome much more than this. And have i sated somewhere that i don't defoil?

You shouldn't assume things what you haven't a slightest clue on. Welcome to internet.

ScaerCroe · Oct 4, 2011

I have read the first couple of pages and the last couple of pages to get an idea of what this method is about, and I see that there seems to be somewhat of a discrepancy in how often and to what extent defoliation should occur.

OP seems to suggest (from my limited understanding) early in the plants life, total destruction of fan leaves, and as much as a couple of times a week, during both veg and flower.

Later posters seem to say that they are defoliating once a month, once every couple of weeks, etc., and much closer to the flowering period of their plants.

What is the consensus?

sneaky101 · Oct 4, 2011

I will chime in with my 2 cents. I read/saw/heard (smoked a lot since then) that once the plant has established a good root system you atre good to defoliate.

To your question as to how often? Depends on your growing setup. For instance I have a 3x3 tent with a 600watter doing a scrog and a 2x4 tent with a 400watter with scro, same strain. Once the 3x3 hit the screen, I had to start hacking giant fan leaves and coninue to have to every 3-5 days to keep it manageable. The 2x4 tent the girls are smaller due to the wattage and different hoods I'm assuming and there aren't nearly as many or as big of fan leaves on those girls so I only have to defoliate every 7-10 days to keep it manageable.

I know this didntgive an exact timeline as to when to defoliate, but hope it helped. And sorry if I am re stating something that has already been said here. I find 90% of my growing knowledge here and it is Hard to keep up with so many pages.

med4u · Oct 6, 2011

sneaky101 said:
I will chime in with my 2 cents. I read/saw/heard (smoked a lot since then) that once the plant has established a good root system you atre good to defoliate.

To your question as to how often? Depends on your growing setup. For instance I have a 3x3 tent with a 600watter doing a scrog and a 2x4 tent with a 400watter with scro, same strain. Once the 3x3 hit the screen, I had to start hacking giant fan leaves and coninue to have to every 3-5 days to keep it manageable. The 2x4 tent the girls are smaller due to the wattage and different hoods I'm assuming and there aren't nearly as many or as big of fan leaves on those girls so I only have to defoliate every 7-10 days to keep it manageable.

I know this didntgive an exact timeline as to when to defoliate, but hope it helped. And sorry if I am re stating something that has already been said here. I find 90% of my growing knowledge here and it is Hard to keep up with so many pages.

hey sneak,i myself do not defoil until the first couple of weeks in flower,and then i start with the big fans,i do about a 1/2 to 1/3 of the leaf at a time,this helps to ensure minimal if any shock to the plant,i allow a day or two for acclimation and continue this method until defoil is complete under the screen,above the screen,i am a bit more selective cutting only leaves that block light to bud sites,and always 1/2 to 1/3 at a time,once the buds are well established i take all sucker branch's that wont make the screen off,keep in mind this is only the way i do it,i would never advocate something i have not tried and found effectivefirst hand,i certainly didnt invent this method,but have experienced great success with it,and i wish all who choose to endeavor the greatest success good luck to all

a well established root system in veg is essential to produce large healthy plants and buds,defoiliated or not

grassott · Oct 6, 2011

yeah man this thread is rocking again. I think of it as a place to discuss our defol techniques. My experiment is going very well by the way. I'll have picks up shortly

med4u · Oct 6, 2011

grassott said:
yeah man this thread is rocking again. I think of it as a place to discuss our defol techniques. My experiment is going extremely well by the way. I'll have picks up shortly

good to hear grass, keep the faith

sso · Oct 6, 2011

was thinking about defoliating the other day and this comes to mind.

ok, remove this leaf and 10 lower leaves get exposure to light.

remove it in veg and all those 10 lower leaves get bigger.
remove it late in flowering and you just lost a huge leaf in favor of 10 tiny leaves.

here´s the thing, if a top (future bud) is small when it begins flowering, its never going to amount to much, even if it gets top light. (might grow into a gram yeah, but the bud above it might have grown into 5-10g)

so, removing leaves from a big top, budsite, in favor of small crap below, is going to cut into your yields.

but lets say, removing that top leaf, will open up the entire inside of the plant to more light? open light to similar size leaves and tops, then yeah, id say you just increased your yield.

any thoughts on that?

przemix · Oct 15, 2011

i wanted to ask about nutrients in this method. do the plants require less nutrients in veg because of less leaves?

med4u · Oct 16, 2011

przemix said:
i wanted to ask about nutrients in this method. do the plants require less nutrients in veg because of less leaves?

howdy prz, i myself,dont defoil in veg,i concentrate on beefin' up the root system in veg,and abundent foilage in veg will give you big healthy roots,once i go into flower i then defoil,as the plant no longer needs to build roots to find water,she is concentrating on making flowers for pollination and propagation as she knows she is slowly dying,(a bit sad when you think about it) in answer to your question,maintain your regular nute schedule throughout,they will take what they need,when they need it,watch your plants they will let you know,i like to keep em a little on the hungery side myself good luck

med4u · Oct 16, 2011

heres a few root shots from 2 gal buckets

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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

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